Advice for Mirrorless

[Alexandre]

Hello everybody,

I would like some help for my first mirrorless purchase as well as some lens recommendation.

Main usage will be for traveling (city and landscape), portrait and night photos. For example, I’m taking it with me to Italy next month, where I’ll be visiting cities, countryside and the coast.

I’m aware this is an extensive range of options, but after a lot of research, this is my top 6 considering my budget (mentioned prices are just body):

1. Nikon Z50 ($835)
2. Nikon ZFC ($1,088)
3. Fuji X-E04 ($898)
4. Fuji X-T30 II ($702)
5. Fuji X-T4 ($1,630) - above my budget, but manageable.
6. Fuji X-S10 ($1,061)

I understand just the last two ones haves IBIS on the camera, but I suppose this can be fixed with the lenses.

I will get the camera + 1 or 2 lenses, any setup recommendation is welcome.

Thanks,

Alex

[BobJ]

To give a definitive answer is impossible, even if I had experience with all those cameras - who would? I know that real camera stores are thin on the ground these days, but the most important consideration is how the camera feels in your hand. You should try them out. For instance, the X-S10 is small and light and is a great camera but may be too small if you have big hands. The X-T4 has very different ergonomics, with dials and buttons. IBIS is nice to have for some photography but not nearly so important as some think. For instance, when in the city, subject movement is more likely to be a problem than camera movement. Also, as you say, many lenses have stabilisation. Another consideration is are the lenses you think you might need available within your budget and are there plenty of secondhand lenses available for the mount. There are no really bad cameras out there, just different ones.

[Alexandre]

Hi, around USD 2,500.

[jerryy]

Offered for your consideration…

X-T30 II with 18-55mm lens

Samyang / Rokinon 12mm f2 lens ( manual focus but very easy to use with fantastic results)

From here you could also get the Fujifilm 90mm f2 — great for portraits and longer reach

or go with the manual focus Samysng / Rokinon 85mm f1.4 as well as the Samyang / Rokinon 135mm f2

This last approach leaves you money for the stuff you will also need like lots of batteries, international plugged battery charger, SD cards, etc.

[jerryy]

16 minutes ago, cpX said:

I would like to give the following opinion:

I also have the Samyang 12mm F/2 lens, (now available with autofocus) I would still recommend the Viltrox 13mm F/1.4, as this has a much better image quality + autofocus. The 12mm Samyang has quite violent chromatic aberrations, which are much less noticeable in the Viltrox lens.

That could be a bad copy, I have the Rokinon manual version and have never had a problem. A lot of Fuji based photographers like the lens, here is a review:

https://dustinabbott.net/2014/10/rokinon-12mm-f2-ncs-review/

 

[Astigmatism]

I have a Fujifilm X-T30 II and recently bought the Fujinon 100-400 zoom which has OIS in the lens. My first time out of the house with it, I saw an eagle 0.2 miles away on a power transmission line tower, and grabbed the shot below. This is a crop from the center of the photo, and I was using the Fujinon 2X teleconverter.

I got this shot handheld. And my hands aren't that steady.

I'm pretty impressed with how well optical image stabilization in the lens works. There are a few Fujinon lenses that have it. I also have the 80 mm macro, and the 18-135 zoom, both with OIS.

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[Herco]

As you didn't mention it, I assume you don't shoot a lot of video. When portraits and low light stills matter to you, I can recommend full-frame when you can afford it. My personal advise would be a Nikon Z5 (you can get some good deals and the first pre-owned ones now hit the market) combined with a Nikkor Z 28-75/2.8 and if you have some money left the superb Z 50/1.8 or 35/1.8 (whenever you need the f1.8). An option would be the 24-120/4.0. The Z5 has excellent IBIS (sorry to say, but far better than any Fuji) and excellent high-ISO performance.

The Z50 and Zfc are good cameras too, but when you opt for APS-C you have limited choice in lenses with Nikon or you spend too much on full-frame lenses. It might however be a good option when you move to full-frame Z-mount in the future and buy the lenses now. When you stay with APS-C, Fuji might be a better choice.

Whenever video matters, the X-S10, X-T4, a Z6 or a pre-owned Z6II are great options. Alternatively in full-frame have a look at the Lumix S5 or a pre-owned S1. Their video capabilities and IBIS are superior to almost all competitors.

Another consideration could be your workflow. When you're not planning to edit your images in post, the film simulations of Fuji are a nice feature to get good jpegs out of camera. You can get similar out-of-camera output from a Nikon, but it requires some more tweaking. Nikon calls this Picture Control and on nikonpc.com you can download film profiles straight to your camera. Whenever you edit in post, all of this hardly matters as to which camera brand you pick.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Herco

[Alexandre]

Hey guys,

First, I'm sorry for the long text, feel free to skip it
I just want to share my saga today at the Mall

I visited a few stores to check out the cameras and feel the grip, check the controls, lenses, etc.
It was also interesting to hear the opinions of the sales team of each store.

After reading some reviews, watching some videos, my idea was to check the X-T4, X-S10, X-E4, Z50, Z5 and A7III (I'm aware they are not in the same category, but still I wanted to check these).
Olympus and Panasonic are not so strong where I live (I didn't see any of them in the stores, I can purchase them from Amazon or other online stores though).
Somehow, Canon options were not there in my priority list.

Store# 1: They tried to convince me that X-S10 with the standard lens kit (18-55mm) with a 35mm (F2) or even a 23mm (F2) would be the best option for my needs since I want to travel light, but take good landscape, city and portrait photos. I can take the X-S10 with these extra lenses for the same price of the X-T4. I must say I was amazed with the grip and how light it is, but a bit concerned with the Viewfinder, since it's small (I didn't test it properly though, since I didn't want to put my eyes in a display unit :). I know XT-4 is a beauty, weather sealed, makes video in 4K at 60, has those amazing analog controls, but the X-S10 is a really nice device. With all the cameras aforementioned, it was the best grip and feel in my hands.

Store# 2: They didn't understand why I was looking at an APS-C camera. At the same price (more or less), they didn't understand what my doubt was between X-T4 or A7III. APS-C? Really? Of course they didn't say anything against APS-C sensor, but they suggested, or you go for X-S10 (cheaper) or, for the same price level, take the A7III, not the X-T4. I played a bit with the A7III and it was really good, besides having a bigger Viewfinder.

Store# 3: It was not that different from Store # 2 storyline.

Store# 4: Here was a bit different. I explained my needs (travel light, take good photos for landscape, portrait, low light, etc.). The salesperson took me directly to the Canon EOS R and EOS RP. I must say, it was the first time I tried those, they felt really good in my hands. Besides, they are offering a package, which the 50mm 1.8 is coming for free (for the EOS RP only). But the standard lens is the 24-105 F4-7.1 IS STM, which I learned is not so good at the 24-105 F4 IS USM. Opinions are welcome, though.

So, in summary, after playing with different cameras today, my final list will be:

1. X-T4 with XF18-55mm: USD 2,040 (or X-T4 with XF 16-80mm for USD 1,940).
2. X-S10 with XF 18-55mm: USD 1,540 (USD 1,280 with XF 15-45 mm, USD 1,763 with XF 16-80mm). Don’t ask me why, but yes, it’s correct, the X-T4 with 16-80mm is cheaper, and the X-S10 is more expensive. With this camera, I would by a 23mm or 35mm or 50 mm. I also accept recommendations for the best cost-benefit for landscape and portrait.
3. A7III (body only): USD 2,000.
4. Canon EOS RP with 24-105MM F4-7.1 IS STM + 50mm 1.8: USD 1,550
5. Canon EOS R with 24-1055MM F4-7.1 IS STM: USD 1,980

I’m sorry for the long text, I really need some unbiased inputs, and yes, I’m really taking a long time to make a decision, because these cameras are not cheap 😊

Thanks,
Alexandre

[Florian]

I would recommend going with the camera that feels best when handling (and, as part of that consideration, carrying when not in use) as opposed to joining the hordes with specs fetishism.

Just check some review's pictures from the past decade to see how (ir)relevant the image quality differences have become.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Florian

[Herco]

You really made an effort going to 4 stores 😉

First be aware of the sales techniques: a) a store will rather sell you a camera they have in stock as opposed to ordering one for you (a camera today is more valuable than one in 5 weeks time with you having time to change your mind); b) they are more likely to sell you brands or models with a higher margin for them; c) when they notice you're looking for a good deal, they revert to end-of-life-cycle models (like the EOS R and RP) or cameras with successors in the market (like the A7III or XT3). It's a way of clearing their stock.

Some tips based on my experience (which is definitely different from yours):

- when wearing glasses, be extra careful to check the EVF: the X-S10 is not great when you wear glasses. The X-T4 has a much better EVF. Just try it and check how much effort it is to see the corners;

- don't get overly focused on weather resistance. There's some benefit to it, but basic care goes a long way too. When you find the X-S10 better handling, that's an important factor;

- for landscape the Fuji 23/f2 is not a great option. The 35/f2 is much sharper. Whether you want the 18-55 or the 16-80 is a matter of personal preference. The 18-55 has slightly better image quality, but the 16-80 is more versatile and WR;

- the EOS R and RP lack IBIS which is one of Canon's big mistakes with these cameras. That's why they're not very popular. Otherwise they're fine but make sure you use the 24-105/f4 rather than the mediocre f4-f7.1;

-  the A7III is a very mature camera with good features. For stills it's definitely 'better' in terms of image quality than e.g. the X-T4, but for video the Fuji has some better options. USD2000 is rather a steep price for an A7III. Once the A7IV becomes more widely available the price of the III will drop. I've seen the A7III for as low as USD1800 a few weeks ago. In terms of lenses there are a lot of options for E-mount. Don't be afraid to look at Sigma or Tamron as well;

- I'm not sure whether you've ran into the Z5 or Z6. They would be my pick esp. also for the great Nikkor Z lenses;

- Olympus is a Micro43 sensor (quarter of the size of full-frame and 2/3rds of the size of APS-C). Great build quality and very good PRO-lenses, but rather expensive for its sensor size and less suited for high-ISO photography;

- Panasonic is very underrated imo. Both the S5 and the S1 are great cameras at a decent price. The new Sigma primes for L-mount are very good value for money, but the Lumix 24-105/f4 is a very good lens too;

Whenever you have two/three models left, try to get some hands-on time. Some stores allow you to take a camera out for a walk or have the option to rent one (with refund after purchase). Good handling of a camera is a very personal matter.

Good luck and have fun.

[blingslingkling123]

I also have the Samyang 12mm F/2 lens, (now available with autofocus) I would still recommend the Viltrox 13mm F/1.4, as this has a much better image quality + autofocus. The 12mm Samyang has quite violent chromatic aberrations, which are much less noticeable in the Viltrox lens.

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Edited June 3, 2022 by blingslingkling123

[DaveC]

There are a lot of good cameras out there but try out the XS-10 with the Fuji XF16-80mm zoom. I switched to this set up from Nikon back in September 2020 and the one lens is ideal for holidays. I have large hands and have no problem with it. 

 

[bataraha079]

This last approach leaves you money for the stuff you will also need like lots of batteries, international plugged battery charger, SD cards, etc.  teatv.ltd
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Edited July 20, 2022 by bataraha079

[ashishgupta09229]

I'm pretty impressed with how well optical image stabilization in the lens works. There are a few Fujinon lenses that have it. I also have the 80 mm macro, and the 18-135 zoom, both with OIS.

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Edited September 15, 2022 by ashishgupta09229

[karnaahai]

I also have the Samyang 12mm F/2 lens, (now available with autofocus) I would still recommend the Viltrox 13mm F/1.4, as this has a much better image quality + autofocus. The 12mm Samyang has quite violent chromatic aberrations, which are much less noticeable in the Viltrox lens.

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Edited December 9, 2022 by karnaahai