Lightroom 6.1

[BarwickGreen]

Adobe claim some Fuji X-Trans RAW processing improvements in LR6.1, announced today.

 

http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2015/06/june-updates-to-cc-photography.html?scid=social47596956&adbid=z12qe3kbtkfmd1dsi23khzcp2s2tepsdk&adbpl=gp&adbpr=114210357725226688774

 

Anybody tried it?

[Patrick FR]

They also say they will improve X-Trans detail rendering and overall edge definition in future ! More on FujiRumors: http://www.fujirumors.com/adobe-says-we-will-improve-x-trans-detail-rendering-and-overall-edge-definition-ps-cc-lr-cc-and-lr6-updated/

[flysurfer]

They also say they will improve X-Trans detail rendering and overall edge definition in future !

 

"Future" may mean that I'm long dead when it happens.

 

I'm happy with the color fixes we have now, because those bothered me more. Especially the blue sky halo issue. 

[BarwickGreen]

Like others, I could see no difference in Fuji RAW handling  between LR5.7 and LR6.0. I've just installed 6.1 and there is a significant improvement in the handling of objects against the sky, as these 100% crops show. All process settings are the same and are fairly "normal"; modest sharpening with detail at 100%, modest colour noise reduction, medium contrast tone curve,  Provia.

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[Maurice]

Can somebody try this image in LR6.1?

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1uxo0oraouwg9vb/AADl5xovMw4f3jEHZRnwXJhda?dl=0

( the image is not mine but from another forum, just works really well as a test subject! )

 

I cropped the bottom left corner (at 800x800px), i'll go first with old versions.

 

Lightroom 4.3 (low sharpening setting)

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Capture One 7 (lowered sharpening)

 

(oops for some reason resized these to 12MP)

[Maurice]

Adobe Camera Raw 9.1 (for Photoshop CS6) doesn't get new 'features', but *Reduced color blur artifacts when processing Fujifilm X-Trans raw images* is under bug fixes! So i suppose old CS6 (and LR5) users like me can also enjoy the x-trans rendering improvements .. ! If you are willing to processes every image one-by-one through ACR. 

 

Adobe Camera Raw 9.1 (for Photoshop CS6) with ASTIA calibration profile:

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[bluewater77]

 

Lightroom CC 2015.1 which should be equivalent to LR6.1

Sharpening a bit and Provia Standard

[Maurice]

Thanks! Way too much sharpening for my taste, though it does clearly show that LR still doesn't sharpen properly.

The sharpening is one thing, but it's also clear that Capture One reveals a large variety of colored foliage (in a natural way, without sharpening to destruction!) that LR is still simply unable to retrieve at all.

 

So sharpening what isn't there only makes it worse.

 

Capture One 7.2E with more sharpening (default 140), just for reference.

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[Ario]

Deleted

[Maurice]

Hi Ario,

 

Personally, I see no improvement there in the slightest, only that you've used a lot more sharpening than i did, and the resulting overload of edge halos. It is remarkable alright.

Half the image has become white with edge halos, edge doubling, and many more artifacts .. all false detail, meaning no gain, only loss.

[linux87]

Capture One 8.3

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/99561784/DSCF9617_CaptureOne8.3.jpg

 

Adobe Camera Raw 9.1 : 

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/99561784/DSCF9617_CR9.1.jpg

 

RawTherapee:

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/99561784/DSCF9617_RAWTherapee.jpg

 

Raw File Converter EX 2.0 by Silkypix: 

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/99561784/DSCF9617RAWFileConverter2.0.jpg

[Luke Johnston]

Hi Maurice,

After I downloaded the LR6 update, I exported the last file I exported before the update (at identical export sharpening and resolution) and it's colour and detail did change. The file was converted to DNG using an old version of Adobe Camera Raw. Therefore I'm unsure whether your methodology will yield the evidence of change you are looking for.

 

First is pre. Second is post. Both at 1024 , quality 100 and sharpen for screen standard.

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[Luke Johnston]

Just realised the post version is different in that highlights are globally +5. Still, the colour shift and detail rendered in the bricks and guttering in indisputable. And this is only at 1/4th of the original resolution (Can't go back and export at 100% unfortunately).

[Jack]

I must admit I don't know were to look at (please point this out to me), but these are screenshots from the file above in Aftershot Pro, with default sharpening, First normal, then with auto contrast.

 

Are you looking only at how much detail is present in the raw files?

 

 

 

[flysurfer]

[Maurice]

The file was converted to DNG using an old version of Adobe Camera Raw. Therefore I'm unsure whether your methodology will yield the evidence of change you are looking for.

 

DNG is just a container, if the Raw data inside was changed it wouldn't actually be Raw anymore. So DNG is fine, every converter will still do its own thing like usual, and improve when they improve. Unless of course you checked the box for lossy compression, then the image will already be pixelated. I use DNG for its standard lossless compression that for some reason Fuji does not use on their files like everyone else does.

 

And indeed, can't really judge fine details on a full image scaled down to web size.

 

Are you looking only at how much detail is present in the raw files?

 

Personally I'm looking at if the Raw data is translated (to something humans can see) naturally/correctly, and without artifacts. Then it can be processed to taste (like sharpening) however one wishes. If the file hasn't been translated correctly then you can still do all those thing as it is raw after all, you can even be fine with it or not even notice, but it might look unnatural at detail level, worse with sharpening, and certain kinds of adjustments would reveal more unnecessary artifacts, things that neither the lens or sensor actually captured. Don't know how to show or explain it .. just have to learn how to spot these things i guess. Or avoid learning it at all, process your images as a whole, let the fine detail be what it is, keep shooting and be happy with the results!

 

Aftershot seems to have mostly inverted halos, dark edges/shadows around edges instead of light, to create the illusion of detail .. painters do the same thing. But that part is more a matter of taste and settings. The way it rendered the base image is not too bad actually. Fairly natural .. considering. Less of a thick mush than with Lightroom (or however you want to describe it). Though not as finely detailed as with Capture One, or Iridient for example.

[Maurice]

img

 

Ah so that's LR6.1, thanks much. Seems to be the same as ACR9.1.

 

As we've learned in that other topic, the blue channel causing edge halos around edges like trees against blue skies and such probably improved slightly, but regular detail still the same mushy mush to my eyes. 

 

Hope that collaboration with Fuji they're promising will amount to something !

[BarwickGreen]

I've had time for a little more testing and the improved handling of branches against the sky is consistent, but I've noticed it isn't always entirely good news. These two crops are from a picture processed with the same settings in LR5.7 and LR6.1. Look at the biggest area of blue, and focus on the area just above the fine twigs. There are more artefacts in the LR6.1 version. Having said that, the print would need to be several metres wide for this to be visible in real life, I suspect.

 

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[Maurice]

Those thin branches/twigs are there, more clearly than they were before, but indeed any imperfections might be more obvious.

 

I suspect that if they manage to get every bit of detail out some day that will also include some more noise. Indeed you can already see it in your example above in the patch of open blue sky. Of course the difference is that you can decide for yourself how much of it you want to have denoised, and then this will be down to the quality of the denoiser of choice rather than trying to fix the damage done by bad interpolation. With more information available it should be easier for the software to distinguish between detail or noise, for both DNR or sharpening, and combined. Even things like selective color editing, or black and white conversions with simulated color filters etc should perform better around edges in the finer details. Also high iso's should have noticeably more color detail. (though lowering the color noise reduction nearly all the way down fixes a lot of that already)

[Jack]

@Maurice, where did you get the original RAF file? I would like to try it out a bit more in ASP and Darktable.

By the way, I don't see a lot of difference between my first crop taken with ASP and yours with Capture One. Pretty much the same (to my eyes), except for the difference in brightness.

[Maurice]

@Maurice, where did you get the original RAF file? I would like to try it out a bit more in ASP and Darktable.

By the way, I don't see a lot of difference between my first crop taken with ASP and yours with Capture One. Pretty much the same (to my eyes), except for the difference in brightness.

 

You already have the RAF, that's what you tested in Aftershot no? I don't remember where i got it from originally.

 

There is a whole lot of difference between those two to my eyes. Apart from the slightly warmer white balance, there seems to be more separation between different color foliage rather than just all being green for starters, and it doesn't have the dark edge halos, while the patch of shadow on the upper right completely lacks detail to name a few. Of course your definition of 'a lot' might be different from mine, i spent way too much time pixel peeping, but i'm also not making it up! Please feel free not to worry about it like i do.   Maybe you like Aftershot's default rendering better, but that's mostly just a matter of settings probably.

[graflex]

That RAF is an old X-Trans detail torture test that's been around for some time. I think I first saw it over at DPR. It get's used a lot as an example of ACR/LR's "watercolor" effect.

 

Flysurfer's LR 6.1 rendition is I believe as good as you're going to get from ACR/LR. This recent update doesn't seem to make of a change to the X-Trans fine detail demosaicing from Adobe.

 

Here's a version of that file demosaiced using DCRaw (Raw Therapee) for reference.

 

fall_clr.jpg

[andyfromboston]

Like others, I could see no difference in Fuji RAW handling  between LR5.7 and LR6.0. I've just installed 6.1 and there is a significant improvement in the handling of objects against the sky, as these 100% crops show. All process settings are the same and are fairly "normal"; modest sharpening with detail at 100%, modest colour noise reduction, medium contrast tone curve,  Provia.

It looks to me like it's not there yet. The vertical edges still have large halos. And those foliage shots still have weird watercolor filter like effect. You get none of that at all in, say, Iridient.

[methodphoto]

Has anyone tried putting the Detail slider high (70-100%) it has helped a lot of the images I have processed.

[Maurice]

It looks to me like it's not there yet. The vertical edges still have large halos. And those foliage shots still have weird watercolor filter like effect. You get none of that at all in, say, Iridient.

 

We know, only a small bug was fixed, the actual promised xtrans improvement is still to come. And have you tried installing Iridient on Windows?

 

Has anyone tried putting the Detail slider high (70-100%) it has helped a lot of the images I have processed.

 

I bet flysurfer did in his version. Indeed 'it helps' ..