X-T2 Preview not accurate

[qwertz7]

Hi all,

 

i have an issue with my X-T2.

The preview image on monitor or EVF is not accurate.

It is most obvious when you take darker images.

After i press the shutter and take the image, the image changes to a slightly less contrasty and saturated image.

So the preview doesn't seem to be accurate.

As i often take dark images in studio this is a big issue for me.

I also tested another X-T2 in a store and had the same issue, tested an X-T1 and the preview was much more accurate.

I made a video to show this:

 

 

anyone can confirm this?

 

cheers, Tom

[exkeks]

To which value did you set screen brightness to?

[Pompo]

i only look at the histogram...

[Alan7140]

Hopefully it's the same in German:

 

Menu > SET UP > SCREEN SET-UP > PREVIEW PIC EFFECT (i.e. last entry in page 1 of set-up) > OFF

 

The X-T2 comes with the jpeg picture effect setting turned on so the screen simulates whatever that is set to (Provia, Astia etc). Turn it off and the screen renders properly. (Hopefully this will fix your problem).

 

Fuji has an unnatural obsession for believing that everyone wants to have their pictures rendered as one of their film simulations, even if you are only shooting with the camera set in raw mode. This setting should definitely be off as default from the factory - I also thought there was something wrong with my camera at first, and in true Fuji style the setting is badly described in the manual so it is of little help. Translating what they mean with their menus is difficult at times, although it's better than it was with the first menus in the X-Pro1. Their use then of "Silent" to mean "Off" caused no end of confusion.

[qwertz7]

@exkeks. Screen brightness is on zero

 

@ALan. Unfortunately that doesn't solve the problem. When i turn preview pic effect off, then its the opposite effect, the image gets more contrasty and more saturated than the preview and its even more obvious. 

Try it out yourself but take a picture of something black or very dark. Otherwise you don't see it.

[voodooless]

Do you have DR set to auto? In that case, the live view will always a how you DR100 while the image could be taken with DR200. If you manually set DR then the preview should reflect that setting.

Edited November 10, 2016 by voodooless

[BobJ]

qwertz7, I have just tried it on my X-T2 which is currently set to 'standard' (Provia). The effect is opposite to what you describe. The shadows are lighter with pic effect off and the whole image becomes less saturated, in fact rather veiled and more noisy. I don't know how you have your camera set up but there is something wrong.

[qwertz7]

@voodooless: DR ist set to 100

 

@BobJ, you maybe got it wrong, its not about the difference of picture effect on or off (which behaves the same as you describe) but the difference between the picture you see in the preview an the actual pic you take.

 

Anyone tried it out?? You have to take a quite dark scene and set the preview mode to continuous. you will see that the preview doesn't match the actual pic you get,

 

cheers, Tom

[voodooless]

Regarding the DR setting, today I noticed something strange as well. I had an outside scene with backlight and a fair amount of contrast, used center weights metering, and then played with various DR settings. Here I noticed that DR200 and DR400 were clearly a bit overexposed compared to DR100 in the EVF. I would have thought that the exposure should not change no matter what DR settings?

Edited November 12, 2016 by voodooless

[jack1758]

from your video the meter on the left reads under exposure...were you shooting in manual or auto exposure mode?  The meter should read zero on most exposures unless you are shooting black or white scenes.  What mode were you shooting in:  P, S, A or M mode? 

[qwertz7]

@jack, it happens in every mode, i checked all of them. It has nothing to do with the metering, its just that the preview doesn't match.

i also don't think that my camera is broken or that i don't know how to use it. I just think its a bug that Fuji hasn't discovered yet, so wanted anybody to confirm this. 

[Alan7140]

As nobody is confirming this, I guess you should either look at your settings or how you are using your camera.

 

From what I see there is no difference on the LCD to the camera's review of the shot, and I've been using my X-T2 (and X-T1, and X-pro 1 before that) for my work in all sorts of conditions from moonlit night shots to full sun and see nothing untoward at all once I had the camera's menu settings correct.

 

There's no "bug" that I can see with the camera at all.

[Username]

Hopefully it's the same in German:

 

Menu > SET UP > SCREEN SET-UP > PREVIEW PIC EFFECT (i.e. last entry in page 1 of set-up) > OFF

 

The X-T2 comes with the jpeg picture effect setting turned on so the screen simulates whatever that is set to (Provia, Astia etc). Turn it off and the screen renders properly. (Hopefully this will fix your problem).

 

Fuji has an unnatural obsession for believing that everyone wants to have their pictures rendered as one of their film simulations, even if you are only shooting with the camera set in raw mode. This setting should definitely be off as default from the factory - I also thought there was something wrong with my camera at first, and in true Fuji style the setting is badly described in the manual so it is of little help. Translating what they mean with their menus is difficult at times, although it's better than it was with the first menus in the X-Pro1. Their use then of "Silent" to mean "Off" caused no end of confusion.

When picture effect is turned off the image previewed will be without film simulation settings BUT the resultant final image produced will still have all the film sim settings applied.

[Username]

Hi all,

 

i have an issue with my X-T2.

The preview image on monitor or EVF is not accurate.

It is most obvious when you take darker images.

After i press the shutter and take the image, the image changes to a slightly less contrasty and saturated image.

So the preview doesn't seem to be accurate.

As i often take dark images in studio this is a big issue for me.

I also tested another X-T2 in a store and had the same issue, tested an X-T1 and the preview was much more accurate.

I made a video to show this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWlzxC6W7Bk

 

anyone can confirm this?

 

cheers, Tom

You may have preview exposure in Manual mode set incorrectly for your studio use. Many times in studio the manually set exposure controls will be set to give a dark image using the available light. Only when flash is applied in studio will the exposure come right. Fujis have a preview exposure in Manual mode settings which will give the correct dark image when this setting is on. When off the camera will gain up and artificially brighten up the image (so you can see what you're pointing at) but will still take the image at the correct settings. Turn on or off as suits you need. Best to assign it to a function button so it's easily accessible.

[voodooless]

One more setting to check: is shutter AE set to "off" by any chance? I think it will then do exposure only if you press the shutter fully, meaning it will never give you a proper preview. 

 

What I noticed is that there can be a significant difference in exposure when Shutter AE is on and you half press the shutter compared to the preview without pressing the shutter.

 

Earlier I also commented about the DR. On Saturday I now noticed the exact opposite behaviour: Increasing the DR level decreased the overal exposure.. Something really strange is going on here.

[qwertz7]

@Alan, i have checked all settings i think and everything is set fine. Also the guy in my local store didn't believe me until i showed it with his out of the box X-T2. As its a subtle difference and only with very dark objects most people don't see it.

 

@Username, no, i got everything right in preview exposure and it happen in available light. Of course in Studio it can't be exact.

 

@voodooless, good tip, but shutter AE is on, i tried both settings

 

i can't believe nobody else can see the difference.

[W Neder]

As stated, always keep the histogram in mind. Also be careful of the brightness of the evf. One of the big drawbacks of a nice, bright, evf is that it can look much more contrasts than the image would in some conditions. This is why the histogram is so important.

[qwertz7]

@Neder, it has nothing to do with the brightness of the EVF. If the EVF is bright, its bright for the preview AND the final image.

The problem is not there on X-T1, where the preview matches the final image exactly, but on the X-T2 it's not.

[pete1959]

When picture effect is turned off the image previewed will be without film simulation settings BUT the resultant final image produced will still have all the film sim settings applied.

 

Well said. It's as simple as that.

 

What you see in the viewfinder, camera set to RAW only or not, is ALWAYS a "cooked" camera thumbnail.

 

Cooked meaning the camera is going to apply settings to produce the camera thumbnail that you see.

 

Period.

 

It's not a bug, but could be misinterpreted as such.

 

It's more a "perception".

 

Your camera makes a thumbnail jpeg that you see in the viewfinder.

 

Even in RAW.

 

That is NOT the same as RAW +Jpeg...ie; that camera created thumbnail is independent of that jpeg on your card.  

 

You can not "download" that camera thumbnail.

 

If you are a RAW shooter it's irrelevant anyhow, because on import it's going to be a flat native RAF.

 

But the camera, in RAW, is forced to cook your image in some way or form so it can render it in the viewfinder.

 

If you want a Jpeg SOOC then you need to make sure that the settings are such that the camera cooked jpeg will be properly converted.

 

All and all, it's rather counter intuitive.

 

Every FUJI shooter should read one of this series books ...115 expert tips. It explains this phenomenon rather well.

 

https://www.rockynook.com/shop/photography/the-fujifilm-x-pro2/?ref=12/

 

You would think that what you VIEW in the viewfinder will be exactly what the camera thumbnail and SOOC Jpeg would look like, but in truth the way the camera works makes a perfect match difficult.

 

As other posters have said the truth is you need to dial in the settings if you want SOOC jpegs.

 

If you shoot RAF (RAW) this is a totally academic discussion because it's RAW.

 

Once your understand the way your camera creates the viewfinder thumbnail image, which probably wouldn't exactly match the SOOC Jpeg in a side by side either, you can see how you end up with slight variations in rendering.

 

It's not a bug. I have always noticed it. It's just the nature of the beast.

 

Peter

 

www.kma438.com

[pete1959]

Or look at it like this:

 

The LCD live-view is version 1.

 

You are watching a little TV set. It's not a picture yet.

 

Once your press the button you get version 2 (cooked and baked, not live, like version 1)

 

Version 2 is camera thumbnail.

 

Version 3 is SOOC Jpeg on your card (which may or may not match Version 2 exactly).

 

Raw is version  3 or 0, depending on interpretation.

[qwertz7]

so Pete, how do you explain that on the X-T1 the preview matches pretty much exact the final image and on the X-T2 it doesn't?

If Fuji managed to do it on the X-T1, why won't it be possible on the X-T2?

[qwertz7]

and Pete, i agree with all what you say, and at least one does agree that there is a difference as all of the others seem to deny that. 

But the goal should be that the preview matches the final image as good as possible.

And as they achieved that pretty well on the X-T1 i see no reason why they shouldn't on the X-T2.

And as the final image (both in raw and jpg and every picture mode) is always slightly less contrasty and less saturated as the preview, it would be an easy task to make the preview also less saturated and contrasty so they match better.

[quincy]

Hey qwertz7, i've tried myself what you describe, and I can confirm your findings. My X-T1 does'nt do it, but my X-T2 does. What i actually get are more details in dark areas, which i can tune down afterwards if i want to (usually i'm happy about the added details), so it's fine for me. But I can understand your frustration with this behavior.

[pete1959]

so Pete, how do you explain that on the X-T1 the preview matches pretty much exact the final image and on the X-T2 it doesn't?

If Fuji managed to do it on the X-T1, why won't it be possible on the X-T2?

 

I can't. good point.

[qwertz7]

i was at a fuji event today and as they lack of X-T2 the guy only had a pre-production model. And guess what, the problem was not there on the pre production model.

I will wait for the upcoming update and if it will not fix the problem i will send in my x-t2