AF in low light

[Xcalibur]

Hi

 

Teetering on the edge of throwing in the D800 and D600 used for weddings to replace with two XT-1's due mainly to weight issues.

 

This point still concerns me though - looking at the new 16mm and the 56mm (non-APD) for reception work avoiding strobes as much as possible.

 

Just wondering if anyone had some good experience in this regard and can give me some confidence I will be able to have a similar hit rate to the Nikons?

 

Thanks!

[x-tc]

If you are a pro, rent one for a day to remove all doubt. Consider what is true today may not be true after the new FW ships. So hold off on that rental for a little while.

[craigk49]

The 4.0 firmware update for the X-T1 is due out in late June. Fuji released a video here...

 

https://youtu.be/ZaoIZXA5RMM

 

I'm hopeful. Unless you can steal the D800/D600, you may want to wait for the update before deciding. 

[Norcal Photographer]

I think he already owns a D800/600.  

 

I'd wait and rent an XT1 once the firmware update is released.

 

One thing that will be different is having only the APS-C / DX crop sensor which changes your lens selections.

 

For me, I shoot mostly using telephoto lenses and rarely need extra high quality wide shots so  having the extra 1.5 crop is a bonus.  

 

A good friend of mine has the D810 and raves about it's low light capabilities and excellent high ISO results.  

 

We did a cursory sharpness comparison test between my D300s, X-T1, and his D7000 & D810 using their 18-55 kit lenses.  It appeared the Nikon 18-55 had superior sharpness albeit marginally.

 

We didn't have time to try it with the same lens Nikkor lens on both cameras using my Nikon to Fuji lens adapter though.

 

HTH.

[Trenton Talbot]

Just wondering if anyone had some good experience in this regard and can give me some confidence I will be able to have a similar hit rate to the Nikons?

 

Sure. I used to photograph receptions with 1D* series Canons and D3* series Nikons (never played with D4). Compared to them, low light AF on the X-T1 works terrific. It's way better. But only if you compare them without using AF illuminator.

 

Main "pro" of DSLRs: you have a luxury of AF illuminator. You can run if from flash, command module, whatever… It's dark red (no, it's not IR)) and not very distracting. However, it gives away your position and intent: "Here's the photographer and he's about to take a shot, let's pretend at once!…"

 

Main "con" of DSLRs: yes, with an aid of AF illuminator you can focus in total darkness… but at certain level of darkness you just can't see what you're shooting or what you're focusing at.

 

Main "pro" of the X-T1: this camera has a night vision. With DSLRs, the viewfinder image are always dimmer than what you see with your eyes… With an X-T1 you can confidently frame the shot way past your own ability to see in the dark. And if you can find a somewhat contrasty spot on what you see, you can focus on it. Always.

 

Main "con" of the X-T1: if you ever decide to use AF illuminator… well, just don't. It's an LED flashlight – nothing more. Nasty one at that. People will be flinching on 100% of your low light shots. So turn it off permanently.

 

PS: The new firmware (4.0) promises to improve already superb low light AF five times in terms of contrast recognition. We'll see.

[x-tc]

Do you have reference to the 5x better AF figure? Not doubting, just curious. In my experience my X-T1 already does better than my D600 in low contrast scenes. Accuracy wise.

[Trenton Talbot]

Do you have reference to the 5x better AF figure? Not doubting, just curious.

 

From the official press release: "The built-in phase detection pixels have the detection range of 0.5EV, an improvement from the previous 2.5EV, delivering phase detection AF performance that enables fast focusing in low-light conditions and on low-contrast subjects."

[jlmphotos]

@Xcalubur:

 

I only have had experience with the 56 1.2 and I can't say it was good.  I was shooting two christenings in the same church back to back.  the church was very well lit with many windows along the sides, and beautiful skylights over the altar area.  Unfortunately the 56 1.2 hunted and hunted for focus.  I got so frustrated I swapped glass to the 35mm 1.4, and the 18-55.  Everything went well after that.  That was my experience, but many others across the inter webs report great results with the lens.  However, for me it just didn't work well and I wound up returning it for a refund.

[Guest fujipuji]

Well I have had Nikon D3 since it's launch in 2008 & know the AF systems on it well, I have also shot with Canon Pro Cameras .. I can tell you that having used a Fuji XT1 (with Firmware Version 3) for a few weeks, it's low light AF is in my humble opinion far superior due to 2 key factors ...
 
1. The ability of the camera to amp up the image in the viewfinder allowing me to effectively see what my eyes could barely make out & still autofocus is far beyond what any modern DSLR is capable of !!! And I say this as someone who has tested & used the nikon D750 which can AF in light as low as -3 EV .... Of-coarse in such low light the XT1 reverts to using contrast AF only, but who cares when it can pull off such a feat !! And it locks on pretty quickly if there is decent contrast on your subject .... My Nikon D3 & Nikon D750 in exact same test failed to get a lock (D750 was better of the 2 Nikon's), and I used same effective focal length lens & aperture setting on all cameras (50mm equivalent lens wide open @ F1.4)
 
2. Silent shutter on the Fuji XT1 is effectively like having built in Image stabilization ... By having absolutely no shutter vibration at all, you can handhold up to 0.5 sec with an equivalent 50mm lens !!! With all the various DSLR's I have shot with over the years I can maybe get away with 1/30 sec on a 50mm lens ...  I cannot believe that this amazing feature & benefit is barely mentioned on reviews & blogs !!! It is something I noticed & used almost immediately !! It means that I can shoot in very low light with a very low ISO & get a clean file that is more than sharp enough for my needs !! Combine this with "Point 1" above (the ability of the camera to amp up the image in the viewfinder & get good AF lock in super low light) you have the best low light AF camera today in my opinion ... I have also shot with the new Olympus OMD EM5 MK2 in same test with IS turned on & it's fully silent shutter and the Fuji XT1 was better !!! The only camera that comes close is the Sony A7s & it's low light AF ability & silent shutter (Have also tested that one in same test at home with Zeiss 55 1.8), but even with the Sony A7s for some reason I could not get the same level of hand hold-ability (is that a word??) as the Fuji XT1.  This maybe be due to the size of the Full Frame sensor in the Sony vs Fuji's APS-C ...

 
I am no Fuji fan-boy but I cannot argue with my own tests !! they results simply speak for themselves ...

 

And just to prove the point I have a test photo taken at ISO 200 with Fuji 35 1.4 Lens @ 1.4 with 0.5 sec exposure that is in focus & acceptably sharp ... I can send it to anyone who is interested to see the reality of AF abilities of the Fuji XT1 in low light

 

Now imagine what the fuji can achieve at ISO 3200 with Fuji 35 1.4 Lens @ 1.4 with 0.5 sec exposure ... And you start to get the picture

 

However the fuji will not track as well as a DSLR in those extreme low light levels ... 

[abjurina]

I consider the DSLR's to be king in the autofocus department right now, but we will see what the version 4.0 can do to help. I've shot a couple of weddings with the X-T1 and 56 1.2 and have not really had any issues. In fact, the last wedding I did, I had thought that the fuji had totally failed to get some recessional and processional shots and when I got them on my computer, they turned out perfect.

[Antony]

I find the "focus mash" technique to be very efficient in extremely low light - I've had at least as many keepers as a Canon 1Dx with a comparable lens (eg. 50mm f/1.2 vs. 35mm f/1.4)

[Macro]

I find the "focus mash" technique to be very efficient in extremely low light - I've had at least as many keepers as a Canon 1Dx with a comparable lens (eg. 50mm f/1.2 vs. 35mm f/1.4)

 

Focus mash...?  Please explain.

[abjurina]

Focus mash...?  Please explain.

 

If I understand the "focus mash" technique, it's that you point your focus point at your subject and, instead of waiting for a focus confirmation with the half-press, you simply push the full way and the camera get's the shot. It's a little unnerving as a technique, but as Antony said, it does work when autofocus get's stubborn.

[heliosfan]

If I understand the "focus mash" technique, it's that you point your focus point at your subject and, instead of waiting for a focus confirmation with the half-press, you simply push the full way and the camera get's the shot. It's a little unnerving as a technique, but as Antony said, it does work when autofocus get's stubborn.

Is this also referred to as "shutter mash"? Do you set AF to "release" or "focus" in the

menu?

[abjurina]

Is this also referred to as "shutter mash"? Do you set AF to "release" or "focus" in the

menu?

Perhaps also called "shutter mash". I find that setting AF to "focus" is the most effective way. The camera will just take a blurry photo if set to "release" if you do the aforementioned technique.

[brainchill]

Your hit rate with the X-T1 will be similar to what you're seeing with the D600 or better and at least as good as you are seeing with the D800(likely better) but not nearly as good as you would be doing if you were using the D810 you wouldn't be nearly as happy .... the fuji beats my 800 but can't even compare with the focus system in the D810.

 

Hi

 

Teetering on the edge of throwing in the D800 and D600 used for weddings to replace with two XT-1's due mainly to weight issues.

 

This point still concerns me though - looking at the new 16mm and the 56mm (non-APD) for reception work avoiding strobes as much as possible.

 

Just wondering if anyone had some good experience in this regard and can give me some confidence I will be able to have a similar hit rate to the Nikons?

 

Thanks!

[djrocks66]

I would definitely rent the X-T1, 16mm and 56mm after the firmware comes out. Everyone will give you different opinions on shooting with them and how good or bad the AF/ Low light performance is. You really need to experience it for yourself. You can definitely shoot a wedding with the Fuji system but it will be a totally different experience then DSLR. You have to learn the camera and lens combo and almost predict what the camera will do. It takes a while but you will appreciate these great little cameras and fine lenses. Go rent one.! I haven't used the 16mm yet but I here it is one awesome lens. I have the 23, 56, 16-55f2.8 and 50-140mm. They are all outstanding lenses. I don't shoot professionally but have shot a few events for family and friends and have got great results. 

 

Take care and good luck! 

[sir_c]

Indeed, with the camera set to focus priority, the shutter mash trick works: the camera won't pop the shutter until it has acquired focus. This does screw up the "decisive moment" shots, because the camera decides when to release the shutter, not you.

 

The XF56 is slower focusing than the 18-55, but f/4 vs. f/1.2 is 3.5 stops of light... motion blur anyone? I set the camera to AF+MF and adjust to suit.

 

However, I am not a wedding photog.

[tonybramley]

I started using the XT1 for weddings in May. 7 weddings so far and two more this weekend. Speeches: Used to use Canon 70-200 2.8 L. Now using the 56 1.2 fuji. Except for one wedding all have been shot using natural light. No problems focusing but I now prefer to use focus lock on manual focus with the thumb button, which also focus's fine. Used flash once, off camera on manual with a lighting stand and focusing was no problem. ISO 1600. Also I have already mastered a quick turn of the ring to focus totally manually during speeches...very refreshing.

 

I find for dancing the focus is as good as or even, at times, better than my Canon 24-70mm. I use the 18-55 for dancing either no flash, mounted flash on stands or Nissan i40 or a combination. ISO 1600-6400. In low light in dancing I have very few problems, the 5d used to struggle at times in very low light. Using the tilt screen holding the camera high over heads in dancing is giving me a higher success rate than the Canon gave. I find that below 1/15 second dancing shots dragging the shutter gets a bit too blurred even with flash. Still really experimenting with dancing but getting just as good results and seeing more because of the EVF gain.