X-T1 ES vs MS dynamic range

[jeanmareaux]

I made a short test of dynamic range is ES and MS, sorry, written in Hungarian but if you click on galleries you can see the comparison.

I might say that forget the e-shutter, but this is not that simple. If you are a landscape, or astro photographer, use a good old mechanical shutter. A new generation of Sony sensors have significant detail from the shadows. But if you photograph people, however, then feel free to use the e-shutter. The nuances of facial skin is not good for the brutal level of post-processing correction, not a coincidence that Fuji DR200 is only going to set up automatic (equivalent to 1 EV plus used).

[jeremyclarke]

Could you summarize what you found? I can't see the difference and Google Translate is having a hard time with all the technical language

 

Also I'm not clear on the facial skin/post-processing-correction issue you'er talking about. 

[jeanmareaux]

Could you summarize what you found? I can't see the difference and Google Translate is having a hard time with all the technical language

 

Also I'm not clear on the facial skin/post-processing-correction issue you'er talking about. 

 

Little less DR when you shoot with e-shutter... it sees naturally when a lot of post-processing exposure correction. The facial skin example comes from the Fuji DR100-DR200-DR400 methods.  The DR400 (when +2EV PP happens in-body) is too much for portrait/human skin tones so this kind of DR-shadow PP problem is not sso important. But if you shoot landscapes (or stock photography in artificial light) it may be much more important. So use the mechanical shutter in these situations, not only high sensitivity but the native ISO (200) too.

[flysurfer]

It appears to be a Lightroom issue. There is almost no difference when pushing MS and ES in Iridient Developer. 

 

Oh, and we often use DR400% for portraits. It's part of our workshop schedule.

[Trenton Talbot]

Oh, and we often use DR400% for portraits. It's part of our workshop schedule.

 

Some people like to abuse a Clarity slider even on portraits. Then DR400 starts to look bad indeed…

[jeanmareaux]

It appears to be a Lightroom issue. There is almost no difference when pushing MS and ES in Iridient Developer. 

 

Oh, and we often use DR400% for portraits. It's part of our workshop schedule.

The Iridient does nit bring good results in post-processing exp. compensation, with or without ES. It makes the shadows greenish just like an old rawprocessing method with an old CCD.

[flysurfer]

Depends on how you set the TC in Iridient.

 

Greenish shadows were also part of my LR CC tests with ES RAWs pushed +5 EV. It could be corrected by moving the Shadow Tint slider to +5 in the Camera Calibration. 

 

It's an interesting issue, I have already been in contact with the tech guys in Tokyo to understand it better, as it's easy to be mislead by thinking the camera is doing something "wrong" (like using 12 instead of 14 bits in ES), while it may indeed only be how the RAW converter is handling things. So I'm very glad the topic was brought it up, even though the conclusions are off. It's interesting, and I'll keep an eye on this. 

[jeanmareaux]

I hope we get some answers from Fuji

[flysurfer]

I already got some, but as I said, they are only half the story, as there is something going on in different RAW converters. So even though DR is perfectly the same in MS and ES (at least according to Tokyo), users may see differences based on using different RAW converters and pushing them literally over the limit.

[jeanmareaux]

My only question: it is noticable in OOC JPG too. Not Lightroom-much, but the post-processed ES picture has less DR then the MS one.

[flysurfer]

Didn't notice this difference in my test, X-T10 and X-T1. However, Fuji says that ES uses different shutter speeds than MS (despite what's indicated), so there may be differences. Since ES JPEGs and RAWs tend to be 0.1 EV brighter, that would indicate a longer SS, hence actually better shadow DR for ES shots. Sadly, Fuji did not indicate in which direction the exposures differ.

[jeanmareaux]

Didn't notice this difference in my test, X-T10 and X-T1. However, Fuji says that ES uses different shutter speeds than MS (despite what's indicated), so there may be differences. Since ES JPEGs and RAWs tend to be 0.1 EV brighter, that would indicate a longer SS, hence actually better shadow DR for ES shots. Sadly, Fuji did not indicate in which direction the exposures differ.

 

Checked again, there are some difference with LR PP exposure compensation but almost nothing if I process the RAW in the camera. I push up the limits, ISO 800 with DR200, three EV darker and push up in X-T1 3 EV but the results is almost the same. The ES file has a little more color noise but the difference is negligible.

 

So this is a software fault, you're right. I hope the Fuji and Adobe solve this problem together

[flysurfer]

So this is a software fault, you're right. 

 

At least that's my interim conclusion.

 

Btw, isn't it kind of suspicious that extended ISO isn't available in ES mode, only 200-6400?

[jeanmareaux]

Extended ISO is not available in RAW, isn't it? ES or MS it not depends.

[flysurfer]

Yep, Fuji deletes the RAW.

[jeanmareaux]

Oh, you mean there is no extended ISO in JPG mode too if I Switch to ES?

 

Really, I don't realize it (I never shoot only JPG)