Petzval 58mm Bokeh Control( adapted to Fuji?)

[milandro]

I have, unsuccessfully, started a thread on the 85mm Petzval some time ago.

 

Unsuccessfully because I asked the members to share for their pictures but unfortunately nobody appeared to have such a lens.

 

One of the reasons might be that the Petzval 85 is a really long lens on a APS-C format for the ideally intended  purposes of such a lens.

 

So I wonder whether anyone has bought the NEW 58 version of this lens in its “ Bokeh control” version (Which I believe to me so much more useful end easy to use)

 

Please share here your pictures.

 

 

[milandro]

here what it looks like if you don’t know

 

[Patrick FR]

I have to admit, I'm kind of a "system hardliner". On my Fuji I almost just put XF-glass. And back in times, when I owned Oly, Nikon & Co, I only put lenses on the camera, that were specifically designed for that system.

 

My current only exception is the Samyang 12mm, which was designed for APS-C, but not specifically for Fuji... but I just found such a good deal on it.

 

That said, I'm aware I'm missing some interesting photographic opportunities, by being such a "system-hardliner". So I hope that some folks will join this thread, and convince me to experiment more with some legacy lenses adapted to Fuji X.... and who knows... maybe it will be the Petzval

[milandro]

I have a number or original and non original fuji lenses, including the 8mm and the 12mm Samyang. I also have 3 adapters ( normal, tilt and focal reducer) which I use for M42 lenses which are obviously meant to make the use of non Fuji lenses on a Fuji camera.

 

The Petzval does something (one thing, really) that is otherwise impossible with any of the original fuji lenses. See the change of swirl and bokeh here.

 

 

It does that at a considerable price though. This lens costs an arm and a leg even though this lens is produced in Russia ( and supposedly now even cheaper than it could be with a very low ex-change rate of the ruble at the moment).

 

I don’t know If I would ever want to buy such a one pony trick but I am considering it.

[Cornelson]

To create petzval mode You can use Helios 44 anyone (m42) and rotate first lens. It's very chip solution.

 

 

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[milandro]

you probably mean to” invert” ( rather than rotate) the last lens ( the first will be generally called the front lens)  and yes, it would be cheap but it doesn’t necessarily work with all versions of the Helios lens. I think that you are referring to the content of this video.

 

 

However I tried it on my copy of the Helios 44-M and it couldn’t work as simply as shown in the video because more than just the last lens came undone ( it was a group of lenses not jut one as you see in that video).

 

However even then the results are not quite the same as with the Petzval. They are, in my opinion a lot “ softer” overall while the proper petzval shows a sharp-is picture in the center with a degree of swirl depending on the adjustment and the aperture tabs.

 

I agree that a lot of the “ mystique” of this lens is jut expensive look material and a generous amount of “ hot air” but there is more to it that meets the eye (if you look only superficially).

[milandro]

I’d rather use the new lensbaby trio because at least one of its lenses has a decent swirl and it costs a lot less than a Petzval. The only real drawback is the fact that the trio lens is only a 28mm with a fixed aperture of 3,5 and that it has three effect soft focus lenses but I would only use this one or maybe another one of the 3, the plus side is the price. for a mere € 300 you get this lens and the other two are a bonus. Maybe. just maybe I could find one secondhand because I am sure that some buyers will enthusiastically buy but very quickly realize that they use it only sometimes.

 

Edited November 6, 2016 by milandro

[Alex Cremers]

I’d rather use the new lensbaby trio because at least one of its lenses has a decent swirl and it costs a lot less than a Petzval. The only real drawback is the fact that the trio lens is only a 28mm with a fixed aperture of 3,5 and that it has three effect soft focus lenses but I would only use this one or maybe another one of the 3, the plus side is the price. for a mere € 300 you get this lens and the other two are a bonus. Maybe. just maybe I could find one secondhand because I am sure that some buyers will enthusiastically buy but very quickly realize that they use it only sometimes.

 

 

Lensbaby's alternative for the Petzval is the Twist 60. It's a 60mm f2.5

[milandro]

Nice, didn’t know this lensbaby, the price looks also enticing.

 

The only problem is that it appears this lens doesn’t come with a Fuji bayonet   I suppose this means I could buy one with a Nikon bayonet and an adapter?

 

( the picture is from the advertising material by lensbaby)

 

Edited November 15, 2016 by milandro

[Alex Cremers]

I have a Lensbaby Composer II (the lens holder) for Canon EOS and adaptors that go from EOS to Fuji. If I want the Twist 60, I just need buy the optic. I already have the Sweet 35 and the Edge 50. Not sure about getting the Twist 60 since I don't really do portraits.

[milandro]

well, for the amount of money that the sole lens costs it would be worth it because it is really cheap.

 

I already have the Kipon tilt lens adapter ( M42 to FX) , which, to some extent, is a very similar gizmo to the lensbaby composer II, of course I don’t have an helicoid which would allow me to fit the Twist optics on it and mount it on the Kipon Tilt adapter, because then, I too, would have a lens which twists and tilts the image.

 

I will have to give it some thought, maybe it is possible to buy a Canon to M42 adapter and fit the lens on the tilt adapter but I am not sure that it would keep the focus at infinity, although probably I won’t use this that way.

 

Also, the maximum swirl effect of these lenses is all based on its use on a full frame, while using this on a Aps-c, some of the vignetting and swirl will simply fall outside of the sensor. In fact, reading this review https://photofocus.com/2016/05/16/lens-review-lensbaby-twist-60/ has confirmed to me that the “ swirl” will be almost invisible on a crop sensor.

 

I already have a lens that can be used for its soft qualities when shooting at 1.8 and at F8 is as sharp as you can possibly get, but it has no swirl which made me hope I could find something to get this effect.

 

Oh well, maybe I’ve just saved €300 then   

Edited November 7, 2016 by milandro

[Alex Cremers]

I have a Lens Turbo II focal reducer (EOS-Fuji). It is true that the characteristics of Lensbaby lenses on a APS-C sensor are less pronounced with a regular adaptor but they are definitely still there. The nice thing about also having a focal reducer adaptor is that you have more options. 

 

300 Euro? There's a shop in my city (in Belgium) that sells them for about 180 Euro!

Edited November 7, 2016 by Alex Cremers

[milandro]

I have a focal reducer too, a zhongyi lens turbo II but is a M42, I would have to swap the M42 for one for Nikon or Canon.

 

I’ll think about that.

[milandro]

 

 

300 Euro? There's a shop in my city (in Belgium) that sells them for about 180 Euro!

 

 

Here €180 buys you only the optical element, if you want the whole Twist 60 it costs around 280 (+ the adapter to Fuji).

 

Do you mean that the shop in Belgium sells the WHOLE Twist 60, optics AND Helicoid with aperture for €180? If that is the  case I’ll buy it!

[Alex Cremers]

Sorry, it's 184 Euro for only the optical element. Because I have the Composer II, I only look at the prices for the optics. 

[milandro]

then it is even cheaper here in the NL! 

 

Anyway I have to give it some thought and do more research.

 

Still it would be nice to see if some Fuji users of this board would share their Petzval ( 58, 85) or Twist 60 experiences.

[Alex Cremers]

A search on flickr is also very informative. Here's the Twist 60 on a X-T1: 

 

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/anarosenberg/30752119462/in/photolist-GaFge1-GpFHdm-GrYZEn-FwwjQs-NRsDJf/

[milandro]

Thanks,

 

Unfortunately it is not clear whether this was taken with just an adapter (Canon or Nikon) or with a Focal reducer. I’ve asked the photographer, we shall see what she answers.

 

I doubt that such an amount of swirl could be obtained without. In that case the price of lens + another lens turbo adapter would be such that we wouldn’t be far off a Lomo/Petzval.

 

I have been in touch with Lensbaby and they confirmed that the swirl is much reduced when used without a focal reducer on an APS-C that and a pit of a “ wide” look of these pictures makes me think this was made using a focal reducer such as the Lens Turbo.

Edited November 9, 2016 by milandro

[Alex Cremers]

You could be right. Her other Twist 60 photos are taken with the Nikon D700 and the level of swirl is exactly the same. 

[milandro]

If she has both Nikon and Fuji it is only natural that she would also own a focal reducer. I’ve asked anyway, we shall see what she answers. 

 

It is, in any case, a very nice effect. If I could find a secondhand Twist 60 and a secondhand focal reducer this would be a no brainer but if I need to buy both new it would cost me just a couple of € shy of €500.

 

Which is not bad but a lot of money to use it occasionally. Remember the swirl is only visible if you chose the background favorably. If you put your subject against anything without a pattern (like the omnipresent trees or leaves in the background or a brick wall) this would be hardly noticeable. 

 

Also the background has to be sufficiently far (and the subject close) to be blurred in such a way that the effect becomes very evident.

 

What I am trying to say is that this is a special interest lens which produces one effect and one effect alone only under certain circumstances which if repeated too often could rapidly get boring.

 

Another possibility to achieve the Petzval effect with a proper portrait lens would be, for me,  the use of a Helios 40  85mm  f1.5 but again, this lens ain’t cheap.

 

We are talking about around €400  ( if I buy in Europe, there are some Russian sellers who offer them for less but I don’t want to buy  outside the EU because of the premium shipping price, insurance, risks, VAT and handling through customs chargers) and then I could use my focal reducer M42 to Fx, achieving a sufficient swirl. Of course this very soft lens is a very different arrangement than the twist 60 would be.

 

The Helios 40 is extremely heavy and bulky.

[Alex Cremers]

Most people do it with a Helios 44 58mm 2.0 and those can be found cheap. You can even get modified Helios 44 lenses that do the effect in overdrive. I've got two normal Helios  44 lenses but I never managed to take a decent photo that features a good swirl. You're right, the conditions have to be perfect. 

 

I've seen shots taken wide open with the Twist 60 and then you see that only the center is clear and sharp but everything else is strangely blurry or vague (without being swirly - not very pretty). 

[milandro]

I have had an Helios until not long ago.

 

There are several posts on this board about my experiences with that lens and several adapters. I maybe using another one at some stage but I would have preferred to use a more specific lens for this effect ( The reason why I’ve stated this thread) because the 58 Petzval bokeh control is not the same as a Helios   /

 

 

Still it would be nice to see pictures made by members here with any or all these lenses.

 

Anyway, I pulled the trigger on a Lens Turbo II adapter for Canon lenses at the front and Fuji FX at the back,  so now I am going to buy the Twist 60 in the Canon version.

 

The weight issues with the Petzval 58 and the need to use that lens too with a focal reducer to make good use of the swirl bokeh convinced me.

 

I still would like to see if anyone uses these things. Apparently this forum doesn’t have too many people who are into these things.

Edited November 10, 2016 by milandro

[mdm]

I still would like to see if anyone uses these things. Apparently this forum doesn’t have too many people who are into these things.

 

I've got two monocles but just have no time to play with them. I hope I will.

 

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[Casa]

I personally like the combination of a focal reducer with an unmodified Helios 44 most. Wide open the Helios achieves maybe level 2 or 3 of that swirl effect in that GIF on page one, and that's all I really need - I think the "upper levels" and the Lensbaby Swirl look almost like someone dropped a Photoshop filter over the image, too much effect for me. 

[milandro]

Today I decided to go to the shop and try the Lensbaby Twist 60. Wow what a disappointment that was! Not only the lens feels very plasticky ( it is mostly made of plastic after all) but it wiggles like crazy!

 

I had it on a lens turbo II Canon EF adapter, so I thought it was a matching problem. I then tried it on a Canon body, same wiggle. I tried another copy on a Nikon body, same wiggle! I then looked at a composer pro where you could buy the front element too, the coposer pro, unmounted, also wiggles.

 

It is not (only) the from element ( which wiggles too) it is the base, by the ( well made) metal bayonet, the wiggle is there.

 

Very disappointed! 

 

I walked out the shop, the sales person said that I didn’t have to see the lensbaby as a serious lens and he inferred that because it is cheap... I tol him that I still respect €260 and that Samyang gives me hell of a well made lens for that kind of money!

 

So, now, back to square one.

 

I am going to try a proper Petzval and see how that goes.

 

Wish me luck.