Very disappointed...

[jerryy]

So?

If you do just that, point the camera, look through the view finder and get the rough idea the camera is pointed in the right direction, push the rear command dial, you get the zoomed (magnified) view, focus to your heart’s content and then half press the shutter button. As I mentioned, the magnified (zoomed) view goes back to full size view. The focus is set, it should not change any more or less in the few moments you take to re-check the composition and then get the shot. This is the basic focus and recompose technique only using a manual focus lens instead of an auto focus lens.

The shutter half press clears the extraneous displayed items except, in your X-T5’s case, the still present peak highlight dancing dots. Those dancing dots being there are not going to change the focus, so you should be able to get the shot.

This is close to what you asked for in your initial posting.

Do you really think that some group of folks are sitting around maliciously plotting ways to mess up the lives of the people they are depending on to buy their products? Especially with such excellent products being released by their competitors? Maybe take a break and get some air, your postings read like ranting from the person sitting at the corner table muttering into their drinks and every now and then yelling out at the sky.

[john.skewes@gmail.com]

7 hours ago, jerryy said:

If you do just that, point the camera, look through the view finder and get the rough idea the camera is pointed in the right direction, push the rear command dial, you get the zoomed (magnified) view, focus to your heart’s content and then half press the shutter button. As I mentioned, the magnified (zoomed) view goes back to full size view. The focus is set, it should not change any more or less in the few moments you take to re-check the composition and then get the shot. This is the basic focus and recompose technique only using a manual focus lens instead of an auto focus lens.

I know - everything you say is true. It simply isn't the way I like to work. That used to be the beauty of the X-Series. Work the way you want to. Adapt the camera to your preferences - not the other way around. Now with the camera, I must adapt to the way the camera is. They have, at the request of a pool of users, removed a function I had grown to rely one. One which I miss, and want back. 
I know how the camera works - I've been using the X-series for 8 years. I liked it better before. That's the point of all this.
You say, "This is close to what you asked for in your initial posting." 
I say, the crucial word there is "close."
And no - I don't think there is a group of malicious plotting to mess up a camera. But I do think that no one sat up in a meeting to defend the work they had done - and they wiped out a feature to shut someone up who had the access, to get Fuji to modify the camera.
And no, I don't walk around muttering about the unfairness of life - but I do reply to people who are interested enough in my posting to make a comment. And thank you, I do appreciate the reply. My hope is that this crazy thread gets noticed by Fujifilm and they fix the camera - because they cannot be contacted.

[jerryy]

It is far more likely something that was overlooked rather than being deliberately sacrificed. These camera are computers connected to lenses, anticipating every outcome to every option is hard to do even when the number of options is very limited. Every camera manufacturer issues firmware update to fix unforeseen issues.

Fujifilm does listen to requests and feedback. Today, they updated their X-App, the app for controlling some cameras from smartphones and tablets. The update removed needing Location always on. This is something many people requested.

Depending on which region you live in, Fujifilm lists ways to contact them. If you dig far enough, you can find the contact information for each region, including Japan, here is one for U.S. based customers:

https://fujifilm-x.com/en-us/repair-and-product-support/#contact_us

Try writing a letter explaining the issue, along with a means to fix it (have a menu option to turn it on or off) that lets everyone use it as they wish. If enough people raise the issue, making changes gains priority over other options.

I suggest politeness; conspiracy laden rants, regardless of how well intentioned or fact based, will not get your message warm receptions.

[HC-110]

Hello. After years of Nikon, I started shooting vintage Leica's. Last year, just for fun I bought a Fujifilm X-T1 and an X-E1, because they were so cheap. I still regret not having done so 10 years ago. Wow. Fuji is perfect.

So 3 weeks ago I bought a brand new X-T5. But something was wrong with my experience, with the T5 because I still use the other cameras. Today I noticed that the focus peaking highlights, which I use in red, do not switch off when halfpressing the shutter. I was happy to have found the mistake and started looking in the menus to configure the camera. You may guess that I did not find "the box to tick or untick". At work we checked a friends X-T4. Everything was right. After work I started searching in the PDF manual. Nothing. So I started googling and after some minutes I knew that I just had experienced my first bad Fuji experience.

Reading here that people have been complaining 6 months ago, I now know that Fuji doesn't care. I fear that it was a mistake to buy the X-T5. I should have bought a used T3 or T4.

I will also kindly contact Fuji. But if this will not be addressed within the next months, I will dump the T5. I also was thinking about starting a GFX adventure, but unfortunately that will be postponed.

[john.skewes@gmail.com]

@HC-110
Yes, disappointing, right.

I've sort of given up - I'll never buy Fuji again. I tried interjecting on their social media ads, living comments imploring them to fix what they deliberately changed/broke. But not a word in response. 

Something changed at Fuji and it does not benefit the user.

-on to other worries.

 

John

[Nialler]

On 8/31/2023 at 12:35 PM, john.skewes@gmail.com said:

I know - everything you say is true. It simply isn't the way I like to work. That used to be the beauty of the X-Series. Work the way you want to. Adapt the camera to your preferences - not the other way around. Now with the camera, I must adapt to the way the camera is. They have, at the request of a pool of users, removed a function I had grown to rely one. One which I miss, and want back. 
I know how the camera works - I've been using the X-series for 8 years. I liked it better before. That's the point of all this.
You say, "This is close to what you asked for in your initial posting." 
I say, the crucial word there is "close."
And no - I don't think there is a group of malicious plotting to mess up a camera. But I do think that no one sat up in a meeting to defend the work they had done - and they wiped out a feature to shut someone up who had the access, to get Fuji to modify the camera.
And no, I don't walk around muttering about the unfairness of life - but I do reply to people who are interested enough in my posting to make a comment. And thank you, I do appreciate the reply. My hope is that this crazy thread gets noticed by Fujifilm and they fix the camera - because they cannot be contacted.

I would advise you, from a position of experience in the firmware field, to be cautious and guarded in broaching the issue with Fujifilm (or any other supplier for that matter). I say this, with respect, because your tone is slightly off. Suggesting that they "fix the camera", for example, is not a phrase to use with their support. The camera is working as designed. The fact that it doesn't exactly match your specs doesn't mean that it can be considered as broken.

I worked for decades as a product owner, and our change process was very rigorous, involving polling our user community for desired changes, tweaks etc. This change will not have emerged from the type of meeting room you imagine. Why do I say this? Because of experience. Often removing a function is as difficult as creating a new one. It is a non-trivial task, and will have required redesign of other elements of the package - thus there is an in-built inertia to overcome. We also as a team had to be conscious that some users might have developed a reliance on a particular function, so that too was a barrier to change. 

Thus, before disabling or removing a function, we would not simply need a majority in its favour, but sound technical reasons to justify it. Since these things tend to be very intertwined, there may also have been a conflict between its mode of operation and that of a new function which was overwhelmingly demanded. 

The solution generously provided (hardly a "fudge" or "workaround") seems eminently workable to me. 

Any time I buy a next gen version of a product I expect to find enhancements/changes. I adapt to them. It's not an ordeal. Things may have moved, or perform differently. That's life. If you give off the vibe that it was done to annoy you, you're mistaken, and you're not recruiting support for your cause. 

A final note: the most important thing for me with this camera - my sine qua non - was that it operate satisfactorily with my legacy glass. Before I bought it, I brought a mount adopter and two lenses to test with it. The salespeople were happy to let me "test drive" the camera. Maybe it would have been worth checking that it worked before purchasing if this was so important. As it is, it wasn't a trivial purchase for me, and I'd guess that I spent about six or more visits to the shop, checking that it would work for me. That process involved discovering whether I could work with it.

I'm very satisfied indeed with it.

 

 

[john.skewes@gmail.com]

1 hour ago, Nialler said:

I would advise you, from a position of experience in the firmware field, to be cautious and guarded in broaching the issue with Fujifilm (or any other supplier for that matter).

Nialler,
Thanks for the response. Though I'm not sure I can parse the Pelican Brief, type implied threat about approaching vendor/manufacturer about their disabling a popular feature.
Development teams have their own type of brain rot and group think. They meet, they feel import, empowered, and then they leave engineering and implementation to clean up their mess. Users suffers.

I hate the X-T5. One feature, disabled, makes the camera a turd. Please Fujifilm - read this. The X-T5 is a turd and corporate spinelessness is the reason. Doesn't anyone at Fuji remember what they once were?

Fuji film offers three types of focus aids, digital microprism, split image, and peak highlights. 
In all instances, up to X-T5 and X-H2, shutter half press cleared the screen for final review.
Now, digital microprism, and split image have the function - but peak highlights does not. This is buggery, not a bug.
It turns out, a group of macro shooters with access the someone, or some team, got the feature removed.
Follow the money - probably a major shareholder or some VPs mistress.

And here's the thing - complaining, nagging, making things uncomfortable does work. Enough chatter, and they may change it. But if you say nothing? Nothing changes.

In general I like the X-T5. Great camera. Just not for manual shooters or the adapted lens crowd.

My X100F works great.
My X-T3 is getting a new lease on life - because it is useable. 
I will probably sell the X-T5. Too painful.

 

 

 

[Nialler]

2 hours ago, john.skewes@gmail.com said:

 

There's no implied threat. I'm just saying that you're going about things the wrong way. Now you're throwing conspiracy theories and mistresses in and, unaccountably for a photographer's forum, the word "buggery".

Complaining and nagging may work for you, but I don't see why innocent posters here should be caught in your crossfire. If you want manual shooting, I'm with you. This is my first digital camera. In all of the various bodies adorning my shelf I haven't put a battery in any in over a decade except where the camera simply won't work without the presence of one. People have actually offered me high-spec DSLRs as they upgraded, but this one was the first one I wanted. I've had to change my MO massively in every way. I accept that, because it comes close to realising everything I need from it. Not 100%, but close. 

Y'see, I get the fact that the manufacturers have a huge pool of customers to satisfy and as one of them I know and accept that they're not designing a custom camera for me alone. I accept that and I get on with it.

 The solution you were offered is not a fudge or a workaround. It is a logical exploitation of a design feature of the camera: the ability to assign commonly-used functions to a button. That is an excellent customisation option. I'm going to gradually exploit that as I gain experience with the machine and learn what I need most readily at my fingertips. 

 

[john.skewes@gmail.com]

1 hour ago, Nialler said:

"There's no implied threat."
 

-okay - no problem.

Fujifilm was not my first digital, I had some early CCD sensor cameras. Just was the first camera I could use all day and never go into the menus. The exposure triangle was right there. Vintage lenses sealed the deal.

I do get hot about this subject - Fujifilm [disabled] a popular function.
I have owned three previous X-Series cameras. Any reasonable person would expect the same features from one iteration to the next. And doubly from a company known for the practice of Kaizen, or passing new features on to old cameras. Not disabling one very specific features. A cherrypicked feature. Plucked with tweezers. No other features removed. Weird, right?
 

"

The solution you were offered is not a fudge or a workaround. It is a logical exploitation of a design feature of the camera: the ability to assign commonly-used functions to a button. '
Actually, this does not work. It's just more futzing and fiddling, taking you out of the moment. You can believe me when I tell you I looked and tried and, no.
I have nearly ten years into these cameras. Nothing comes close to half press shutter.
Actually the only feasible alternative is no focus aids.
 
The features is gone. Fuji does not care. There is no programing or retraining of yourself. It's maddening.

Recently I bought an X100F. 7 years old now? I works exactly as it should (but does not do interchangeable lenses.) Half press shutter clears the screen. 
My X-T3 which got dunked in a swamp works the old way too - but I wanted to upgrade to an IBIS body and don't really trust that one day it won't just die.

This was not a huge pool of shooters - this was a specific group of macro shooters with access to decision makers at Fuji. I am very certain this - there is internet chatter about it. And everyone one knows, the internet never lies....

Enjoy your camera - fantastic camera.

John

 

 

[Nialler]

8 hours ago, john.skewes@gmail.com said:

 

Cheers! I hope to enjoy it as much as I have enjoyed the Spottie I grew up with and which will remain in my bag for life not simply in my bag, but with a roll of film in it, and more to come. I'm coming at the XT5 from a very weird angle. It sort of goes back to unpreparedness. I found myself with my Spotmatic in "the Garden of Ireland" - Wicklow - beautiful county. I was spending a week exploring its beautiful valleys. When the batteries on my Spotmatic failed, I reached into my rucksack for a replacement set. There were none. So I shrugged and decided I had to use my eyes to meter. Things were cheaper then. When picking up processed films the photos came with a new film thrown in, so it was easier to take that decision. Within a few months I was getting nearly 100% keepers - at least in terms of focus and exposure. So circumstances forced me to be ever vigilant of light. I've had many other cameras since then, but the bare bones (it doesn't even have a self-timer) Spotmatic was an ever-present.

Expense has forced my hand, though. That and some curiosity. I feel as if my first car is a Ferrari! In fact, when I explained at the shop that I was an experienced photographer looking for a digital which placed the emphasis on stills, they tried to force a €7k model on me. That would be a step too far. Thus my experience in approaching this camera is somewhat unusual.

Thus far I have had great enjoyment with it. I was thrilled on opening to box to discover that I was getting utter rubbish from it. Yes!!! I had to learn how to use it! Praise the Lord! I also found a magic button which was the answer to my dreams - the diopter adjustment. That's how naive I was (and am) about the digital offerings - this was an enormous and hugely welcome surprise. I've been learning. The supplied kit lens is not ideal - a 16-80mm zoom. It's pretty sharp, but demanding in manual mode. My old glass reminds me of my father's Opel Senator, which was forgiving to the point that it would comfortably take off at the lights even if you'd mistakenly selected third. My old glass is much more forgiving. At the moment, I'm leaving everything to automatic ISO. I'll wean myself away from that quickly enough, though. in the past I'd retrofitted my son's lenses to my older kit, and found that you needed to be much more precise. I guess when you're designing something which will be adjusted by algorithms then you can make the continuum as tight as you want.

My son laughs at me. "You have bracketing mode if you want, Dad.", he'll remind me. "Use burst mode.", he'll add. Some of my habits are deeply ingrained, though.

Two other things people find odd about my photography: I never ever use post-processing - what comes out of the camera is the final product. Secondly, I have never once taken photos where the subject is a human being without first requiring a lot of persuasion. 

[gomat]

Hi, here is the message I just sent to the client service. I believe that if enough people show dissatisfaction they might report it as a bug and update the firmware. You can copy/paste if you want! --- Hello, I'm contacting you regarding what seems to be a bug on the 5th generation camera. On all previous generations, when using manual focus, all focus help (focus peaking or focus check for example) disappeared when the shutter release was pressed halfway. This provided a natural view to recompose, if necessary, before taking the photo.  On the latest generation, the focus help remains activated even after the shutter has been pressed halfway. This makes the use of manual lenses much less practical. I personally have a Voigtlander 23mm 1.2, and its use was much more practical on my X-T4 and X-T30II. With this lens, focus check was activated automatically by touching the focus ring, and deactivated automatically by pressing halfway. Not any more. This makes it much less convenient to use.  Other people have complained about this behavior, for example: - https://www.reddit.com/r/fujifilm/comments/1f7p3wt/xt50_focus_check_not_exiting_on_shutter_halfpress/ - https://www.fuji-x-forum.com/topic/35255-very-disappointed/ - https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4689635   The FujiRumors website even dedicated an entire article to it, where the vast majority of people said they preferred the old behavior. Many expressed their dissatisfaction in comments: https://www.fujirumors.com/fujifilm-x-t5-the-issue-with-focus-peaking/  This video also shows the problem, where the videographer says he no longer uses manual lenses with his X-T5 because of this problem: 

 Could you please report this bug to make the use of manual lenses more pleasant? Thank you very much.

[BruceRH]

I decided to try an X-T50 a few weeks ago to use the tiny Voigtlander MF lenses. The size of the body and lenses were perfect for what I wanted. The problem, and why I returned the X-T50, is because of this half press shutter problem when using MF lenses. I was hoping the more expensive X-T5 would be better in this regard but sadly it seems not. I use Olympus and Sony bodies and both are so much better when using manual focus lenses. It is really a shame that Fuji went this way with their newer bodies.