X-pro 2 unimpressive AF

[jeffp3456]

It would seem so on several occasions. I can say it happens a lot with the xf60 macro!  even though it is for close objects! I notice it happens more if we use a wider focusing square.

 

And I can say for sure it happens to the Nikon D7000.

I agree, was doing some close up work with the XF60 and the XP2 insisted on focusing on the background even though the item I had the focus square on was within range but nearer. I had to manually adjust each shot. Annoying.

[Aswald]

I agree, was doing some close up work with the XF60 and the XP2 insisted on focusing on the background even though the item I had the focus square on was within range but nearer. I had to manually adjust each shot. Annoying.

 

Welcome to the quirky world of the XF60!

[rebus]

I was able to replicate this issue... back light source (...a desk lamp) at the right upper corner of the frame, hand between lens and light source... single shot, AF-S, AF spot... ev'ry try to focus the hand in the center of the frame wasn't possibile, it's always out of focus... the distance of the light source to the hand was approx the same one that was between hand and lens... same scenario (...distances, settings, lens) but w/ the light source out of the frame, the hand, even if slowly, it was focused... this could be annoying, knowing that in some situations the focus it'd not be possible.. it has to know now which are the situations when this could happen, and go to manual focus as I did in this occasion.

Edited July 3, 2016 by rebus

[JDFlood]

You know, rereading this post, one might come to the conclusion that there is, or is not an issue. But I have dozens of photos where the background is in focus and the subject is not. Each time I go for a close up of virtually any kind, I get AF lock on the subject and the background is what is actually in focus, I go out about three times a week, so I have many dozens... Well that I have deleted. I have just had to start using manual focus... Which for me is like taking a step 20 years back. I have a X-E2, Nikon D800, and Leica X-2 none do this as did none of their predecessors. It happens with my 35mm F2, my 60mm... And I am sure the others, but I don't off hand specifically remember examples, so I will not include them.

 

Where is the best place to contact Fuji. Do they have a, 'send a message to Fuji" somewhere, or maybe it would be better to attempt to send the camera in for repair? JD

[Aswald]

I was able to replicate this issue... back light source (...a desk lamp) at the right upper corner of the frame, hand between lens and light source... single shot, AF-S, AF spot... ev'ry try to focus the hand in the center of the frame wasn't possibile, it's always out of focus... the distance of the light source to the hand was approx the same one that was between hand and lens... same scenario (...distances, settings, lens) but w/ the light source out of the frame, the hand, even if slowly, it was focused... this could be annoying, knowing that in some situations the focus it'd not be possible.. it has to know now which are the situations when this could happen, and go to manual focus as I did in this occasion.

 

This scenario happens to every other AF system. I was re reading the manual on another camera and it's stated under "where AF fails" trouble shoot section. "Strong back light" or "pointed at a strong direct lighting source", were some of the examples given.

[Aswald]

You know, rereading this post, one might come to the conclusion that there is, or is not an issue. But I have dozens of photos where the background is in focus and the subject is not. Each time I go for a close up of virtually any kind, I get AF lock on the subject and the background is what is actually in focus, I go out about three times a week, so I have many dozens... Well that I have deleted. I have just had to start using manual focus... Which for me is like taking a step 20 years back. I have a X-E2, Nikon D800, and Leica X-2 none do this as did none of their predecessors. It happens with my 35mm F2, my 60mm... And I am sure the others, but I don't off hand specifically remember examples, so I will not include them.

 

Where is the best place to contact Fuji. Do they have a, 'send a message to Fuji" somewhere, or maybe it would be better to attempt to send the camera in for repair? JD

 

Good to get yours checked. I don't have this issue with mine.

[dkojevnikov]

This scenario happens to every other AF system. I was re reading the manual on another camera and it's stated under "where AF fails" trouble shoot section. "Strong back light" or "pointed at a strong direct lighting source", were some of the examples given.

 

This is just how Fuji AF algo works all throughout its cameras.If your background has better contrast (vertical lines) than foreground, you really have to be sure your AF point is completely inside your subject, not even touching the background. It is actually almost impossible to do with OVF as AF point there is huge. I am also getting a lot of pictures in the parks with focus on background but I check every picture at 100% magnification and delete misfocused pictures (you have to shoot RAW+JPEG as you won't be able to magnify your RAW 100% or even 50% due to Fuji implementation). There is not hing wrong with your camera, this is just how Fuji engineers programmed it. 

 

While researching other systems, I tried Sony A6300 and it is also doing that from time to time in S-AF mode (I would call it occasionally, not systematically as Fuji) but its C-AF mode with face and eye tracking is so much better and useful. I tried to use C-AF mode in my X-PRO2 instead of S-AF and in many cases AF precision improved. Although C-AF has a couple of major flaws in all Fuji cameras, one is that exposure is always locked when you half pressed the shutter button and another is that it also like background. Even Fuji's face detection mode is focusing on background in a lot of cases (it says "face detected" but it is completely out of focus)

 

Micro 4/3rd cameras almost never do that but I found a couple of photos from my old Olympus camera collection with focus on background instead of subject too but it is less noticeable due to a larger DOF at the same aperture values.

 

I did not find any misfocused (on background) pictures with my old Nikon D750 but in general its AF precision was worse than Fuji even in good light, that's why I am shooting with Fuji.

 

This is just something you have to adjust to if you like Fuji cameras and lenses hoping that they improve the AF algo in the future firmware updates. Alas there are no good alternatives. Nikon D500 AF is amazing but Nikon primes are pretty soft wide open and camera is huge. Sony a6300 has amazing C-AF but pretty bad S-AF (especially in low light). I would go with A6300 if it had focusing joystick (the way it is done in D500 or X-PRO/X-T2) as using S-AF with Sony is just a pain. Micro 4/3rd are amazing cameras and even better lenses but they are using outdated sensors in their best cameras (Olympus E-M5 II and Panasonic GX85). I wish they added good OLED viewfinde, new 20Mp sensor and PDAF capability to GX85. But they deliberately crippled it with older sensor and mediocre viewfinder just to keep cost lower and not compete with their other cameras.

 

I tend to think that I will be replacing my X-PRO2 with upcoming X-T2 just because it will be easier to see the auto-focus errors on its bigger viewfinder. It is annoying that I have to check every picture but the ones that I get with right focus are outstanding.

Edited July 4, 2016 by dkojevnikov

[Aswald]

This is just how Fuji AF algo works all throughout its cameras.If your background has better contrast (vertical lines) than foreground, you really have to be sure your AF point is completely inside your subject, not even touching the background. It is actually almost impossible to do with OVF as AF point there is huge. I am also getting a lot of pictures in the parks with focus on background but I check every picture at 100% magnification and delete misfocused pictures (you have to shoot RAW+JPEG as you won't be able to magnify your RAW 100% or even 50% due to Fuji implementation). There is not hing wrong with your camera, this is just how Fuji engineers programmed it. 

 

While researching other systems, I tried Sony A6300 and it is also doing that from time to time in S-AF mode (I would call it occasionally, not systematically as Fuji) but its C-AF mode with face and eye tracking is so much better and useful. I tried to use C-AF mode in my X-PRO2 instead of S-AF and in many cases AF precision improved. Although C-AF has a couple of major flaws in all Fuji cameras, one is that exposure is always locked when you half pressed the shutter button and another is that it also like background. Even Fuji's face detection mode is focusing on background in a lot of cases (it says "face detected" but it is completely out of focus)

 

Micro 4/3rd cameras almost never do that but I found a couple of photos from my old Olympus camera collection with focus on background instead of subject too but it is less noticeable due to a larger DOF at the same aperture values.

 

I did not find any misfocused (on background) pictures with my old Nikon D750 but in general its AF precision was worse than Fuji even in good light, that's why I am shooting with Fuji.

 

This is just something you have to adjust to if you like Fuji cameras and lenses hoping that they improve the AF algo in the future firmware updates. Alas there are no good alternatives. Nikon D500 AF is amazing but Nikon primes are pretty soft wide open and camera is huge. Sony a6300 has amazing C-AF but pretty bad S-AF (especially in low light). I would go with A6300 if it had focusing joystick (the way it is done in D500 or X-PRO/X-T2) as using S-AF with Sony is just a pain. Micro 4/3rd are amazing cameras and even better lenses but they are using outdated sensors in their best cameras (Olympus E-M5 II and Panasonic GX85). I wish they added good OLED viewfinde, new 20Mp sensor and PDAF capability to GX85. But they deliberately crippled it with older sensor and mediocre viewfinder just to keep cost lower and not compete with their other cameras.

 

I tend to think that I will be replacing my X-PRO2 with upcoming X-T2 just because it will be easier to see the auto-focus errors on its bigger viewfinder. It is annoying that I have to check every picture but the ones that I get with right focus are outstanding.

 

This more or less sums up my general experiences with my other cameras.

 

When critical focusing on the Pro1/2, I always use evf with the smallest af box. I can say that in my case, I hit focus 95% of the time. If I did miss, it's usually because of the lens' slow af motors.

[cosinaphile]

 

Human error or not, I have experienced that it seems if two object under the focus square is in different distances, the AF will always pick the object that is furthest from the camera, never the nearest one. In the enclosed pic of a rake, the central focus spot was on the rake, but the camera locked on the grass in the background as seen through the sprockets.  

 

 

 

I have seen this several times, and in such situations it seems like manual focus is the only option. My Canons behaved opposite as they always focused on the nearest object if in doubt, and I would say that Canon's solution is better than Fuji's. The issue is similar with all Fuji's I have owned, X-Pro1, X-T1 and X-Pro2.

 

;-D Hans

 

same here

[ftwjonathan]

Had both x100t and xpro2, strangely enough the xpro2 was quicker and more accurate than the x100t...

[jclone]

This is just how Fuji AF algo works all throughout its cameras.If your background has better contrast (vertical lines) than foreground, you really have to be sure your AF point is completely inside your subject, not even touching the background. It is actually almost impossible to do with OVF as AF point there is huge. I am also getting a lot of pictures in the parks with focus on background but I check every picture at 100% magnification and delete misfocused pictures (you have to shoot RAW+JPEG as you won't be able to magnify your RAW 100% or even 50% due to Fuji implementation). There is not hing wrong with your camera, this is just how Fuji engineers programmed it. 

 

While researching other systems, I tried Sony A6300 and it is also doing that from time to time in S-AF mode (I would call it occasionally, not systematically as Fuji) but its C-AF mode with face and eye tracking is so much better and useful. I tried to use C-AF mode in my X-PRO2 instead of S-AF and in many cases AF precision improved. Although C-AF has a couple of major flaws in all Fuji cameras, one is that exposure is always locked when you half pressed the shutter button and another is that it also like background. Even Fuji's face detection mode is focusing on background in a lot of cases (it says "face detected" but it is completely out of focus)

 

Micro 4/3rd cameras almost never do that but I found a couple of photos from my old Olympus camera collection with focus on background instead of subject too but it is less noticeable due to a larger DOF at the same aperture values.

 

I did not find any misfocused (on background) pictures with my old Nikon D750 but in general its AF precision was worse than Fuji even in good light, that's why I am shooting with Fuji.

 

This is just something you have to adjust to if you like Fuji cameras and lenses hoping that they improve the AF algo in the future firmware updates. Alas there are no good alternatives. Nikon D500 AF is amazing but Nikon primes are pretty soft wide open and camera is huge. Sony a6300 has amazing C-AF but pretty bad S-AF (especially in low light). I would go with A6300 if it had focusing joystick (the way it is done in D500 or X-PRO/X-T2) as using S-AF with Sony is just a pain. Micro 4/3rd are amazing cameras and even better lenses but they are using outdated sensors in their best cameras (Olympus E-M5 II and Panasonic GX85). I wish they added good OLED viewfinde, new 20Mp sensor and PDAF capability to GX85. But they deliberately crippled it with older sensor and mediocre viewfinder just to keep cost lower and not compete with their other cameras.

 

I tend to think that I will be replacing my X-PRO2 with upcoming X-T2 just because it will be easier to see the auto-focus errors on its bigger viewfinder. It is annoying that I have to check every picture but the ones that I get with right focus are outstanding.

 

That is a great post summarizing what I have seen. (tested Sony, M43 and Canon Full Frame DLSR)

It's refreshing to be able to say what things are and not have everybody immediately calling out " user error " or defending manufacturers beyond reason.

 

Fuji AF has this annoying quirk of preferring to focus on backgrounds, it's there on all cameras they make.

They finally got rid of the waxy skin despite calling a feature for a while and a number of users refusing to acknowledge it.

So I hope they will finally admit that their algorithm needs to be changed and we' ll see a firmware update.

 

Shooting people a few meters away with 16mm for example, I often need to go manual, because I cant always fill the af box with the person I want in focus... (even the smallest box)

I stick with Fuji because when it gets it right, it's really accurate and the IQ is splendid, but it wouldn't hurt anyone to improve that aspect of their camera.

[sandrogsp]

Fuji AF has this annoying quirk of preferring to focus on backgrounds, it's there on all cameras they make.

 

it happened some times, until I changed Focus Area : 

from "single point" to :  ZONE .

Single point gives 273 focus points, while Zone gives only 77 , but for some reason Zone focus point seems more reliable in nailing the right focus.

At least for me.

[petergabriel]

Well, seems like we will never reach a conclusion on this topic. However having owned my xpro1 for months now and using it with the 35mm f1.4, 23mm f1.4 and 18-55 f2.8-4 I have yet to see my hand focus test fail. The xpro1 nails it every time, as my x100t and s, as well as the x70 did. Testing the xpro2 twice in the store it constantly failed the same hand focus test, so guess I will wait to see how the x-t2 (and xpro2) fares in the AF department once the latest and greatest firmware comes out in October.

[Aswald]

Had both x100t and xpro2, strangely enough the xpro2 was quicker and more accurate than the x100t...

 

They should perform more or less the same but my bet would be on the newer af system on the pro2. Still I think lenses on the Pro2 will be the defining factor.

[adventsam]

Well, seems like we will never reach a conclusion on this topic. However having owned my xpro1 for months now and using it with the 35mm f1.4, 23mm f1.4 and 18-55 f2.8-4 I have yet to see my hand focus test fail. The xpro1 nails it every time, as my x100t and s, as well as the x70 did. Testing the xpro2 twice in the store it constantly failed the same hand focus test, so guess I will wait to see how the x-t2 (and xpro2) fares in the AF department once the latest and greatest firmware comes out in ctober.

I can't believe you had problems with the xpro2 af, for most things s-af and small point works 99/100, for others maybe twitchy you have zone-af and c-af, use the pd-af to track your subject, x-pro2 has excellent af already, I will be surprised if they can make it muh better for pure evf and that is probably where the xpro2 has a real advantage as the ovf acts like a calibrated red dot sight, The last two in this series are start of the next sequence and a mid shot, I was able to consistantly track a 30-40mph owl at 8fps for 3sec bursts to capture 21 frames with close to 100% keepers with the 55-200. This was a captive bird, but it proves the point I hope.

[Aswald]

Nicely captured!

[adventsam]

I have my eyes set on the 100-400 and possibly the 50-140 too and 1.4x, which in hindsight I wish I'd purchased instead of the 50-200 but the 50-200 did give great results and covers the 70-300 focal range well and fairly fast and is quite light too. 

[Aswald]

I absolutely love the sharpness and IQ of the 100-400. I had a brief go at it during one of the launches. At 400, it does seem to hunt a bit when there is strong back lighting. I tried taking a shot of the chandelier and only managed after 3 or 4 shots. This was on the Pro2.

 

It's also absolutely insane trying to find anything at the 400 end. Leave alone chase down a flying target.  Birding is just really tough.

[adventsam]

If you use the ovf and the zone af, largest box, you can see the bird in its environment, you have 2 ovf settings too, the largest helps to magnify the view a bit better but the box you are now focusing with, packed with 49 pdaf, is smallish but perfect as a calibrated target box, no evf lag, and unlike a zoomed in lens you can see the world around you too, bit like shooting both eyes open! I need to do more shooting and have found a location for red kites, so should be able to practice some more, hopefully with the 100-400 next time

[petergabriel]

Nice set of pictures, but doesn't really prove anything regarding my op.

[Aswald]

So far no one could replicate your experience with the Pro2. I haven't found any sources on the net with similar experiences.

 

I would safely conclude that it's probably technique, environmental lighting or defective Pro2/lens at the store. Even though the odds of both Pro2 units being defective is rare.

[adventsam]

Nice set of pictures, but doesn't really prove anything regarding my op.

Peter the camera has no problem focusing in very low light, its rated to -3ev and the below is just that in the church and -4.5 outdoor,, hand-held, s-af ,use s-af and use the joy stick or increase the af box slightly from the smallest if required.

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[petergabriel]

I don't see how pictures like that tries to replicate my issue. The scenes are nothing like holding a hand 40 cm's from the lens and having the camera show green focus square even though my hand is a complete blur. There is nothing wrong with my technique as I did the same test with same lenses on my x-pro 1 with a secure focus lock and my hand actually being in focus. Same goes for the x100t and x70, but I feel like I am repeating myself here.