Will Fujifilm Make The Same Mistake?

[deva]

a new meaning for contradiction in terms 

 

 

I ordered the X-T2 plus grip... it is easy to take it off and have a small camera with a compact prime for walking around with... same as before. Now you have the option of putting the grip on for when speed is needed. Seems complimentary to me... rather than contradictory. 

[milandro]

Should you read the whole thread you would see that it started with and article posted by Aswald of the slippery slope undertaken by Sony

 

 

A very interesting read.....

 

http://petapixel.com/2016/04/04/sonys-full-frame-pro-mirrorless-fatal-mistake/

 

 

Of course the reason why mirrorless camera started a new course and trend in modern photography wasn’t only the retro looks (none more retro than Fujifilm) which attracts Older and Younger generations, but the fact that all of a sudden the camera had shrunk to a size that was allowing people to have great professional results with a camera based on a small format.

 

But then the “bokeh people” started asking more light efficient lenses , which have to be larger by their own nature and the system started growing in size as well as in choice.

 

Then there was a call for more battery life faster action and video and so it became necessary to provide a grip which is not only a container for batteries but actually enables the camera to perform those high functions which few “ need' to use but everybody would buy into, and so, the camera which was born small has grown again.

 

The majority of the X-T2 buyers will buy the grip because nobody would want to be left out and ONLY use 9 shots a second, it has to be 11... and so gliding on the slippery slope towards making the largest small camera in the world make its way, one slide at the time.

[Warwick]

Saying that, the XPro2 and 35mm f2 (plus the forthcoming 23mm and 50mm f2) make a good, compact kit

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[milandro]

Certainly, that’s staying true to original mirrorless spirit ( by the way, those smaller lenses were all produced in order to not obtrude the OVF vision and while they are almost a necessity for X pro users, they are a bonus for everyone else) but many seem to be now entirely focussed (pun)  onto the X-T2 ( the rage of the moment) with mostly WR ( as if anyone only ever shot in the rain) and light efficient very large lenses ( despite the proven record set by Fuji of great results with high ISO setting).

 

I don’t think that I will let myself be enticed by the 50/2 since I already have a 60mm which is a great lens for my purposes.

[deva]

Of course the reason why mirrorless camera started a new course and trend in modern photography wasn’t only the retro looks (none more retro than Fujifilm) which attracts Older and Younger generations, but the fact that all of a sudden the camera had shrunk to a size that was allowing people to have great professional results with a camera based on a small format.

 

But then the “bokeh people” started asking more light efficient lenses , which have to be larger by their own nature and the system started growing in size as well as in choice.

 

Then there was a call for more battery life faster action and video and so it became necessary to provide a grip which is not only a container for batteries but actually enables the camera to perform those high functions which few “ need' to use but everybody would buy into, and so, the camera which was born small has grown again.

 

The majority of the X-T2 buyers will buy the grip because nobody would want to be left out and ONLY use 9 shots a second, it has to be 11... and so gliding on the slippery slope towards making the largest small camera in the world make its way, one slide at the time.

 

 

The X-T2 is only slightly bigger and by the reviews of pre-production users, feels the same as the X-T1 in the hands. It is still smaller than the X-Pro1 from 5 years ago. Fuji is coming out with 23/f2 and 50/2 lenses that are smaller than the existing primes... so there is a trend towards smaller. 

 

You are speculating about a trend and ignoring data that does not support it. You are also making the claim that most people who buy the X-T2 are going to also get the battery grip (which is over $300 without the batteries). I don't think that is a safe assumption. Lots of people do not need it and wont buy it. I'm getting the grip because I want the extra batteries so that in fast changing situations I can shoot constantly at high speed for a couple hours. I have to carry the extra batteries anyway. Much of the time, I'll not be using the grip. 

 

I've shot a lot of video over the years and have been thinking of getting a camcorder. If the X-T2 video ends up being satisfactory for my uses, then that means the equipment I would carry has shrunk in size. Good for me.

 

Neither Canon or Nikon fully supports their APS-C format. Neither of them have a good set of APS-C primes. I purchased Fuji because of the superior set of APS-C lenses including a variety of high quality primes. 

 

The smaller size is a happy bonus and I still have that. The X-T2 with the 23/1.4 is still much smaller and lighter than my DSLR's and I can still go out walking with just the camera and prime lens. Fuji is providing choices. I can put on the grip for when I need it and I can still walk around unobtrusively with the X-T2 exactly the same as I have done with my X-T1. They have maintained and expanded the smaller size advantage (new smaller lenses) while also giving users other options when needed.  

[milandro]

it is not about the camera, it is about a camera which suggest high performance only with the grip and the lenses, larger and larger. 

 

I predict that the majority of the sales will see camera with the grip.

 

The article which sprouted the thread says it all.

[deva]

it is not about the camera, it is about a camera which suggest high performance only with the grip and the lenses, larger and larger. 

 

I predict that the majority of the sales will see camera with the grip.

 

The article which sprouted the thread says it all.

 

 

The article which sprouted this thread criticizes FF mirrorless on Sony... which is hardly applicable to APS-C Fuji. 

 

I think it more likely the majority of sales will be sans grip. But even if you are correct, it is irrelevant. What others do does not affect my choice. Nobody is forcing me or you to get or use the grip. It is an additional choice and has nothing to do with the article. 

 

Fuji is making a full range APS-C system. That includes bigger lenses and smaller lenses. It includes flashes, grips, remote release etc. Nobody has to buy or use all those things. The beauty of the compact Fuji camera with a gorgeous prime lens on it is in no way marred by having other options available. 

[Aswald]

I had a good time viewing this youtube. It's insane to compare the X-T2 to the D810 but.....

 

I especially liked the reference he made ".......it's like watching a 10 frame per second stop motion movie.....", just too cruel....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNAJOyTuL1U

[milandro]

Well, in my opinion, the trend is firmly set, mirrorless, albeit Sony or Fuji or whatever, all born to be small, are growing in size under the pressure of those who want more performance and larger WR light efficient lenses. ( curiously Hasselblad did the opposite, interesting maybe there is an Hasselblad or a MF Fuji in my future, who knows, if I win the lottery!)

 

This is , after the introduction of the X-T2 with its grip, a fact, not fiction, but you may very well think otherwise.

 

We shall see.

 

I don’t think we’ve seen the last of this. I think that we are going to see more of the equation bigger=better kind of thing. The populace wants it and they shall get it.

 

It will also be interesting to see what they will make of the “ lesser” series. Will there ever be an X-3 or a X-T20 with a larger amount of pixels? What happens to the X100 (X-Y-Z) ?

 

In the video above the X-T2 doesn’t even have the grip and size is almost there with the D810. The thing is that the Fuji should have stayed in its own niche, where it rules or shares most of the market, while when it attempts to compete with the other cameras they start missing the point.

Edited July 10, 2016 by milandro

[Aswald]

Well, in my opinion, the trend is firmly set, mirrorless, albeit Sony Fuji, all born to be small, are growing in size under the pressure of those who want more performance and larger WR light efficient lenses.

 

This is , after the introduction of the X-T2 with its grip, a fact, not fiction, but you may very well think otherwise.

 

We shall see.

 

I don’t think we’ve seen the last of this.

 

I see the same trend myself. It's one format taking over another and eventually end up with exactly the same problems as the old format. I used to wonder the hefty sizes of dslrs compared to film cameras.

 

The thing I found visually obtrusive, are the larger top dials of the X-T2. Yes, I understand that it may be easier to grip but were the X-T1 dials too low profile? It's really sticking out now.....chunky....

 

However, to Fujifilm's credit, I think the boost function and 3.5mm stereo headphones jack on the battery grip is an excellent reason for getting the grip.....And given that the X-T2 is marketed as their top flight, fully featured crop mirror less camera aimed at sports and event photographers, it kinda makes sense. Afterall, increased AF performance and 11 fps on one on body battery will probably give you 150 shots.  That's about 15 seconds of shooting.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Aswald

[milandro]

yes, and that’s why I predict that lots of cameras will be sold with the grip, whether necessary or not.

 

Who wants an amp to go to 10 when you can go to 11 right?

 

@https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xgx4k83zzc

[Aswald]

In the video above the X-T2 doesn’t even have the grip and size is almost there with the D810. The thing is that the Fuji should have stayed in its own niche, where it rules or shares most of the market, while when it attempts to compete with the other cameras they start missing the point.

I don't think they have a choice as X Shooters keep pushing their game on them.

[Aswald]

yes, and that’s why I predict that lots of cameras will be sold with the grip, whether necessary or not.

 

Who wants an amp to go to 10 when you can go to 11 right?

 

@https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xgx4k83zzc

Haha...I remember this video. Exactly on point.

[milandro]

I don't think they have a choice as X Shooters keep pushing their game on them.

 

 

 

I disagree.

 

 

It is better to be the best at a relatively smaller game( one that has put Fuji on the map though, where were they before the introduction of the mirrorless X series?) than being the one that is chasing the frontrunners in a larger game.

 

I think that they are trying to juggle too many things at the same time.

 

Frankly speaking I am pretty much set with what I’ve got and for the near future I might invest in some weird glass ( I am seriously considering the new Petzval 58 with the swirl control, it ain’t cheap though)

[deva]

Well, in my opinion, the trend is firmly set, mirrorless, albeit Sony or Fuji or whatever, all born to be small

 

born to be small? That is your personal imagining about it... they are born to be a great camera system. Which includes a wide variety of options. 

[Aswald]

I disagree.

 

 

It is better to be the best at a relatively smaller game( one that has put Fuji on the map though, where were they before the introduction of the mirrorless X series?) than being the one that is chasing the frontrunners in a larger game.

 

I think that they are trying to juggle too many things at the same time.

 

Frankly speaking I am pretty much set with what I’ve got and for the near future I might invest in some weird glass ( I am seriously considering the new Petzval 58 with the swirl control, it ain’t cheap though)

Please do us a favor an get that Petzval 58!  ...... and post some pics taken with it. It'll be a while before I can get one. Too may other gears to clear off. It's one of the lenses on my list. Beautiful creation.

[deva]

 

 

In the video above the X-T2 doesn’t even have the grip and size is almost there with the D810. The thing is that the Fuji should have stayed in its own niche, where it rules or shares most of the market, while when it attempts to compete with the other cameras they start missing the point.

 

The Nikon D810 is just under twice the weight of the X-T2

[milandro]

To me  ( and many others) size was a major selling point of mirrorless cameras.

 

I certainly bought into the system because of its size. But if you don’t believe me, well, then read what BH has to say on mirrorless cameras ( they sell them so they know their onions about this!)

 

“..Mirrorless cameras have been on the market for a decade, but they have really begun to make waves in the past few years. Most serious photographers would have certainly been shooting with a DSLR camera just a few years ago, but now many have traded in their DSLRs for the smaller and lighter form factors that mirrorless cameras provide. Not only are mirrorless cameras usually lighter and smaller than their DSLR counterparts, but they’re quieter, as well. With no mirror to slap up and down, street photographers, as well as wedding and theater photographers can now shoot virtually unnoticed..."

 

Now double the size of the camera and lenses and the whole paradigm goes haywire.

[deva]

 

The thing I found visually obtrusive, are the larger top dials of the X-T2. Yes, I understand that it may be easier to grip but were the X-T1 dials too low profile? It's really sticking out now.....chunky....

 

 

That is the thing I do not like about the X-T2... I love the dials on the X-T1 as they are. I have thin nimble fingers so I suppose some people might find them too small, but they are perfect for me.

 

Otherwise I am very happy with 2 cards and more robust doors which adds a few grams of weight. I imagine the more flexible screen articulation also adds a few grams. 

 

My X-Pro2 feels a bit more solid and well built than the X-T1... If the X-T2 feels like the X-Pro2, that is worthwhile to me. 

[milandro]

Please do us a favor an get that Petzval 58!  ...... and post some pics taken with it. It'll be a while before I can get one. Too may other gears to clear off. It's one of the lenses on my list. Beautiful creation.

 

 

I am really considering this. I am not going for the older ones because I find them clumsy, nor would I go for the 85mm ( which is too long for my style). But the price factor is a major problem.

 

What I will do is to wait until someone who’s bought this unwittingly realizes that it is pretty much a one trick pony ( no question about it) and after growing few up with the swirl they will sell trying to recuperate part of their investment.

 

Then I will make my move.

 

For the time being I am fooling around with adapted lenses for these things.

 

They are all considerably cheaper but one trick ponies nevertheless.

Edited July 10, 2016 by milandro

[deva]

 

 

Now double the size of the camera and lenses and the whole paradigm goes haywire.

 

The X-Pro2 is the same size as the X-Pro1 and the X-T2 is slightly bigger than the X-T1... The X-T10 is a new camera and it is significantly smaller than the X-T1

 

There are new smaller lenses announced. 

 

You are picking out one small increase in the whole line and then shouting about the sky falling. 

 

Buy an X-T10 with the 35/2 and 23/2 and you will have a smaller Fuji X system than you could have gotten a few years ago. 

[milandro]

I am obviously talking of the X-T2 with grip and I am not being picky, this is the first camera which has shown the new thinking they are experimenting with. If the camera will be successful (and I don’t see why not) we will see more of it.

 

The smaller lenses were announced especially for the X pro 2 were the determining factor is the OVF where big lenses are in the field of view but the X pro 2  has a different target.

 

I don’t need to buy a X-T10, I have a X-T1 and a X-E2.

Edited July 10, 2016 by milandro

[deva]

 

 

The smaller lenses were announced especially for the X pro 2 were the determining factor is the OVF where big lenses are in the field of view but the X pro 2  has a different target.

 

 

 

 

Lots of people have purchased the 35/2 who have the X-T10 or X-T1. The smaller lenses are not just for the X-Pro2. 

[deva]

I am obviously talking of the X-T2 with grip and I am not being picky, this is the first camera which has shown the new thinking they are experimenting with. If the camera will be successful (and I don’t see why not) we will see more of it.

 

What new thinking? Creating a diverse and well rounded X system? My guess is that has been the plan by Fuji right from the start (assuming it did well which it has). 

[milandro]

well, we shall see.

 

The evidence of the growth is size, to me and others, is there.

 

If you don’t see it or don’t want to see it, that is fine by me. The intent of a discussion is not to change other people minds but to exchange ideas, we’ve exchanged ours and, predictably, remained of our own opinion.

 

I don’t want to escalate to bickering. I think our respective points have been made.

Edited July 10, 2016 by milandro