EyesUnclouded

Please refrain from using expressions such as "dishonest" when reffering to me in the future. Instead, try to do your own homework; this way you would be possibly able to make a more comprehensive evaluation of any given argument.

I've seen the thread; is it confirmed that the issue is not related to Auto DR settings? If so, it is not specific to the X-Pro2. Please check it out and I'll update the OP if needed.

It's not my intention to defend this guy in any sense but: 1) He DID shoot two lenses side by side in the exact same conditions. In fact, he did two pairs of them: http://yannickkhong.com/blog/2016/3/7/sigma-art-vs-nikkor-afd-part-1 Whether you agree or not with his remarks and conclusions, is another matter. But your point is invalid, insofar as his whole "research" on the matter is concerned. (edit: there is also a like for like comparison involving the Otus somewhere in his blog, I don't care to try and discover it right now) 2) AFAIK, he never mentioned putting a crappy old lens next to a great quality modern one. On the contrary, if you read a couple of posts in his blog you'll see that he favors very specific "older" lenses (which is not exactly correct, since most of them are still in production, e.g. Nikkor 35mm f/2D).

Honestly, though it may play some role, I don't think it's about your "disability": it's objectively more ergonomic. I have used heavy lenses (e.g. the 50-140mm, Samyang 135mm/100mm macro) and it's day and night with the added grip. For DSLR users (as well as users of cameras with DSLR-like grips, like the A7ii or E-M1), mind you, it's not the same experience ergonomically speaking, since the shutter button remains where it was. It's also not the same as a gripped X-T1 (the weight distribution is different and the battery grip offers a place to rest your pinky finger). Not better or worse, just different. All said, for less than 40 euros (worst case) shipped, it's worth a try for everyone. And even more so for tripod users with Arca plates, of course.

I have an L-bracket with additional grip, like Milandro's, for my X-E2; it's chinese made and, honestly, of great quality, no issues whatsoever. My guess is we'll see several for the X-Pro2 in the following couple of months or so. So I'd suggest a little patience. Hint: the additional grip will make the X-Pro2 waaaaaaay more practical and ergonomic, esp. with longer/heavier lenses. As a reminder, the whole thing will be quite heavier, though.

You are probably Italian, right?

I worked for close to 17 years as a software engineer and analyst. I know exactly what you're talking about. Back then we used to joke at Microsoft, remarking that any version of their software ending at 0 was more or less just a collection of all imaginable bugs, with the actual software following in the next release. Still, the "real world" beta testing phase for the X-Pro2 was really extensive, or so we're told. To the defence of mirrorless companies in particular, they have to implement a lot of novel features with any new camera. In contrast, most "new versions" of DSLRs just offer more of the same capabilities, improved by upgraded processors and such. Perhaps the reason some of them (D5/D500 for instance) are delayed, is due to newly introduced options and the need to test them further. So perhaps we should just accept the idea that modern cameras are highly involved computers, after all. Fuji, at least, has a longer lifecycle for their cameras than most. But on the other hand, there is market pressure, and, for Fuji, their dependance on Sony for sensors. They somehow have to juggle all these together, and there are obviously mishaps along the way.

Regarding the overheating issue; how could it be related to other issues, such as low battery life, slow writing to SD cards and the "on/off message"? Can people confirm those issues appear as well? Also, can we pin down conditions, such as batteries used (original vs third party, and, if original, just the one in the box or older ones too?), type of cards used, etc?

I am rather perplexed by one thing: the camera, albeit with beta firmware was in the hands of several dozen testers, since November last year. Nobody noticed all these issues? How can it be? I'm totally sure most of them used the camera in demanding professional conditions (in other words, what we've seen in Fujifilm videos were not staged). The major issues, such as reseting, freezing and overheating would be evident from the first few days for those photographers. Which points to the assumption that, perhaps, either the firmware or the hardware (or both) of the final production cameras were altered quite a bit from the pre-production examples. Introducing bugs along the way. What are your thoughts about that?

Thom Hogan has stated, both in the past and in some recent posts, that, actually, DSLRs don't need to be gigantic, that was a design decision taken during the last days of professional film cameras (think F5 and such). In fact, this concept could be used by Canonikon to comfortably enter the mirrorless market, without having to introduce a new mount. The extra depth required by the longer flange distance would be offset by a generous grip (housing electronics, controls, the battery etc). The new Sigma mirrorless cameras are an example of this. All that said, I still find great pleasure in using my old OM cameras and lenses; in my opinion they offer the perfect size/weight compromise between ease of use and functionality.

Alright folks, I have updated the OP based on most recent reports (esp. those that include commentary from official Fuji channels).

Thanks for the participation guys. I trust that having as many confirmed reports as possible will help Fuji resolve the issues the soonest possible. At this point I don't see any new reports not listed in the OP. I have updated ranking for some issues accordingly, as comments from more people come in.

Added a few more entries and updated others to higher ranking (due to additional reports)

Brenizer is quite different from a typical horizontal or vertical panorama Are you asking for a "Brenizer algorithm" to be included in the X-Pro2, so that the camera creates a final JPEG version from X number of exposures? If this is the case, I don't see it happening. It would require a lot of processing power to do and very often would result in non-optimal results. In my opinion there is no problem making Brenizer type pictures using Photoshop. If you mean something else, please explain.

Guys, I just compiled a bug report and edited the OP Please keep in mind that my "rating" is not an indication of the reliability of the person reporting the issue, but rather the number of reports

Thanks guys, keep reporting in this thread, and, what I'm thinking is to edit the initial post and include all reports there. Actually, it could be a good idea to mark each bug report with a "confirmation" type ranking (such as the one used for rumors), since some seem to occur much more often and predictably than others. For example: - I have seen only one report for the camera failing to write to the SD card correctly (black frames). Quite possibly a card issue and not mentioned anywhere else. Thus #0 or #1 ranking - The "reset" problem: reported by several users and repeatable. In fact, I just had official confirmation today that Fuji is working to solve it. The information I was given was that it occurs in certain batches and is easily solvable by firmware update. This gets #5 ranking.

Just a thought/suggestion: since the X-Pro2 is in the hands of several members by now, I think it would be a good idea to gather all the different reports about issues with the camera in one thread. It would also be a good idea to make it a poll-type thread, something I don't seem to be able to do, otherwise I would already tried to collect existing reports from this sub-forum. What do you think? Bug report list (BR# = bug report rating) "Turn off the camera and turn it back on" message BR5 : reportedly a hardware issue Slow writing to SD cards BR3 : several reports Camera freezes when connecting to Instax printer BR3 Overheating under various situations BR3 Internal temperature warning while using Canon compatible triggers and flashes BR3 Wobbly shutter button BR2 Camera unexpectably freezing under random conditions BR1 Erroneous "no card inserted" issue BR1 Black frame between shots BR1 : in single shot mode Wi-Fi lock-up BR1 Solved with firmware update 1.01 Reset settings issue : Camera resets settings under random circumstances.

Exactly right. Not to mention potential Fuji MF users would be a very unique group of people: not the usual MF crowd (but many would be tempted perhaps), but also high-end mirrorless and DSLR pros, people in more diverse photographic disciplines than "MF-proper" in general. This is what I'm looking forward: a unique system, such as the X-System was unique in many ways. I hadn't seen the exact numbers, thanks mate.

If this was directed at my comment (which is curious, because my whole point was entirely different, but anyway...): no, I don't mind about focusing speed that much. After all, body improvements already made older lenses focus faster anyway. And a macro lens will never be a speed demon in any case.

I shall repeat my argument about the 16mp APS-C sensor: this chip was not new when Fuji first started using it and they continued putting it in cameras for 4 years. Why? Because it was a bloody good sensor, that's why! Newer iterations of the X-Trans technology helped in keeping it competitive practically until today. The X-Pro2 is the first time Fuji uses a "brand new" sensor in a top camera. Is this a new trend? It remains to be seen. I understand the worries about sensor technology surpassing what the company is currently committed in. Especially since Fuji has an history of keeping the same sensor for as long as they can. But I'm trying to be realistic here. And objectively speaking, sensor technology in itself, hasn't improved overall image quality from our cameras as much as we like to think, during the last 8 years or so. If you think about it, than old 16mp sensor was used in Fuji, Sony, Nikon and Pentax cameras for ages. Various versions of the 24mp sensor are also in use until today. In the world of FF, the same is true about the 24mp Sony sensor. Not to speak about Canon sensors at all... In all cases what I see is modest improvements, generation after generation, with more substantial improvements in processors and "peripheral" components (e.g. elimination of the AA filter certainly resulted in a serious improvement in a number of cases). I believe we shall only begin to see real advancements only with a new revolutionary sensor technology, not merely evolutionary steps. The organic sensor probably being such a case. BSI also seems a good step forwards, although it seems to be seriously important more for smaller sensors. Back to the existing 50mp MF sensor: I totally trust that, should Fuji put a current technology X-Trans version of this sensor in their MF camera, it would virtually blow away anything south of the top of the line 100mp Phase One. Which means, for 99.9% of the population, everything. Coupled with Fuji lenses and general imaging know-how, this could keep it on top for a couple of years. But my point is, the 44x33 "format" will most probably keep improving. Sony themselves hinted that they might use such a sensor in a future compact (RX) MF camera. Digital backs will obviously use future 44x33 sensors for years to come. And, speaking of Fuji, it goes without saying that they would seek to implement their own R&D (i.e. organic sensor) in a (somewhat distant) future version. Sure, I'd be delighted to see the latest technology used in my favorite cameras (although I might not be able to afford one). But I wouldn't mind Fuji using present day, tested technology either. I'm confident they'll be committed in supporting and improving it for as long as it takes.

At this point, please allow me a question and some speculation. How would you feel if Fuji made instead a 70mm f/2.4 (or even f/2) macro, with 1:1 capability and weather sealing? My reasoning is that, FoV for the 105mm equivalent (in 135 terms) is and always was quite popular. There is a number of macro lenses in the DSLR world at this focal length and even more portrait lenses. Personally I'd admit I rather prefer this focal length over 85-90mm. Such a lens would probably be more expensive than the present 60mm, but, OTOH, Fuji needs to upgrade it anyway (a faster AF motor being one consideration, but also WS being a welcome feature for many)

I don't know where the idea that the 51Mp MF Sony CMOS sensor used in the Pentax 645Z is "too old to be used in a 2017 camera" came from. Excuse me if I missunderstood this. It's not even 2 years old (announced April '14). Fuji used the "old" 16mp APS-C sensor for ages; giving it the X-Trans treatment plus newer processors and firmware of course. That sensor was almost two years in the market when Fuji first put it in the X-Pro1. Speaking of the "small" (sic!) 2 year old cropped MF sensor, if used with similar optics, results seem to be notably better than anything from FF, including newer cameras such as the a7Rii and Canon 5DSr. If we are to trust test shots from Imaging Resource and DPReview, it excibits resolution, color and DR advantages over them, while being almost free of false color and moire. Noise wise it is at least on par with the high-megapixel FF sensors. We can imagine what an X-Trans version would be like, paired with Fuji optics. (Note: there is no DxOMark test of this sensor, which is curious. In fact, there is a rumor circulating that DxO leaked, at some point, a score of 101 for it, but later removed the reference. This has almost become a conspiracy theory among Pentaxians, who claim that DxO burried the actual benchmarks. Take this with a grain of salt) In regards to actual surface, this sensor is ~66% larger than a 36x24 sensor. As a format my opinion is this is ideal to build a new system upon. As previous commenters noted, the point is building a system and I particularly agree with gdanmitchell: Fuji can just "skip" FF and offer a complete high end professional system with definite advantages. Furthermore, future versions of this 44x33 MF sensor can definitely offer higher resolution as well as other image quality improvements. Apart from size considerations (after all, we all expect the Fuji MF to be similar to a GW690 or Mamiya 7 in format), this sensor shall obviously offer cost advantages, both directly and because of smaller lenses. In line with the argument that Fuji is actually going after high-end FF system cameras, perhaps a basic system with 3 lenses could be made available for about (or even less than) $10,000. This is in the same range as the top FF cameras plus premium glass.

Sure, it's certainly a matter of personal taste. I have used the DSLR "joystick" and, at that time, found it intuitive. One advantage the twin-wheel setup has is that you are not moving your thumb and index finger at all; push the button to bring up AF-point selection and use the wheels to position. Since the same wheels are used for exposure settings (e.g. aperture and under/over-exposure) in this paradigm, it becomes more ergonomic. On Fuji cameras, of course, this is hardly the case (having dedicated controls). I have tested the joystick on the X-Pro2 and found it quite intuitive; in fact I bet I could get totally used to it after a couple of days of shooting. What I'm saying is, in context, there is no huge loss if they somehow don't manage to fit it in the X-T2, although it would be great for consistency between bodies (I bet many of us shall have both a X-Pro2 and a X-T2 by the end of this year...).

Concerning the joystick, to be honest, there are other methods to maintain the exact same functionality without one. The X-T1 follows an "SLR-type" format. On the Oly E-M1, which also falls in this category, I used to program one of the front face buttons (next to the lens mount) to show AF points, then use front/rear dials to position it. It is a very fast and untuitive method, which also offers double duty to the rotary dials without slaving one or more controls for a specific task.

The OVF in the X-Pro2 accounts for a considerable percentage of the cost. Even if they decide to use the newest Epson EVF in the X-T2, I doubt the cost would be higher. Fuji may decide to price the X-T2 according to several parameters, competition pricing being one of them. But, given that a huge portion of the R&D work has already been done with the X-Pro2, if we assume they implement all X-Pro2 features (e.g. dual card slot, joystick, certainly the same sensor and processor), it can hardly cost more to produce and probably slightly less. Adding features such as 4K video is firmware driven after all. So the (highly speculative) answer would be if the X-T2 delivers the same feature set (more or less) with the X-Pro2 it should retail the same or even slightly lower. But, then again, perhaps Fuji decides to implement more high-end features such as top-notch weather sealing, a larger buffer, or even an updated AF-system, etc, targeting "sports-oriented" competition such as the D500. There is no way in knowing at this point, although I'm sure the first (several/different) prototypes will be out in the wild sometime soon.