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X-Pro2 RAW LR Conversions: Darker than JPEG


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Hi,

New to this forum.  I've been using my new X-Pro2 for a couple of days now, RAW+JPEG to get a feel for both, and I've noticed a consistently darker RAW file in Lightroom (both CC and 6...I run both on two different machines).  Nearly a full stop darker than the JPEGs.  This is really odd, and I've never seen this from any other camera including the X-T1 and X100T, both of which I've been using for some time.  I'm otherwise very happy with the PRO2 (although my settings have reset once, as so many others have reported).   I've not yet tried to convert in another RAW program.  Granted, it's an easy fix, dialing in +1.00 in exposure, but I'm curious if anyone else is seeing this in LR with Pro2's RAW files?  The JPEGs have all been either Provia or Astia, and with all the other settings at 0 (no highlight or shadow changes, etc).  So I'm a bit stumped.

Curt

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Hi,

New to this forum.  I've been using my new X-Pro2 for a couple of days now, RAW+JPEG to get a feel for both, and I've noticed a consistently darker RAW file in Lightroom (both CC and 6...I run both on two different machines).  Nearly a full stop darker than the JPEGs.  This is really odd, and I've never seen this from any other camera including the X-T1 and X100T, both of which I've been using for some time.  I'm otherwise very happy with the PRO2 (although my settings have reset once, as so many others have reported).   I've not yet tried to convert in another RAW program.  Granted, it's an easy fix, dialing in +1.00 in exposure, but I'm curious if anyone else is seeing this in LR with Pro2's RAW files?  The JPEGs have all been either Provia or Astia, and with all the other settings at 0 (no highlight or shadow changes, etc).  So I'm a bit stumped.

Curt

 

Perhaps you are somehow underexposing the jpg and then the camera is auto-correcting for you? It could be that the raw is showing you the real exposure.

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The only LR miscalibration I'm aware of is at ISO 51200.

 

Sadly, you didn't provide specifics about the ISO and DR settings of the affected RAW files (and also didn't post examples), so it's impossible for me to of actual help here.

 

Okay, I can try to figure that out.  The DR is on auto...I'm not sure which it's actually choosing.  The ISO has been all over...everything from 200 to 6400.  It's consistent though: every single shot I've taken has been one stop darker in LR in RAW than on the JPEG.  Again, it's not the same behavior I've seen from the XT1.  I'm new to this forum, but an experienced photographer (I even teach it), but like anyone with a new camera, I could be making a mistake in the settings.  Anyway, I'm looking to see if anyone else is seeing this...sounds like maybe not.  I'll keep looking for feedback, and trying to play with settings.  See if I can nail it down.  You post seems to think maybe the DR is the culprit, so I'll start there: turn off Auto and just go with DR100 for a while.  The JPEGs look great, btw: perfectly exposed and balanced. So the camera is getting it basically right...it's just the RAWs that look dark.

 

I can try to post examples later...

Thanks, Curt

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Well: it does seem to be related to DR settings.  All RAW shots I took with DR auto are a stop darker in LR than their JPEG counterparts.  But, all RAWs shot with DR 100 are pretty much on par with the JPEGs.  Interesting.  Again, this never happened to me with the XT1, so...weird.  But, now that I know what it seems to be, I'll just avoid DR Auto, or else fix with an exposure boost when needed.

Thanks, Curt

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That would be a strange error in Lightroom, because this was fixed after the X100 Classic came out. You are using RAF files with the latest LR version, right?

Hi, yeah, I made sure I had the latest of both LR CC on my home computer and LR 6.4 on my school/work computer.  Same problem on both.

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It's Adobe's fault, so you should open a support ticket with them. Fixed DR settings are treated correctly, btw. So only DR Auto (with DR200%) is affected.

 

Fuji can't do much here, as the RAW metadata appears to be fine. 

 

Okay, thanks for helping and looking into it with me.  I'm glad to have it confirmed...

Curt

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  • 9 months later...

If you explicitly set DR100 then RAW and JPG will match.

 

If you explicitly set DR200 or DR400 then the RAWs will be -1 or -2 underexposed, that's the way the Fuji DR expansion works, BUT Lightroom will auto compensate and match the exposure to the JPG.

 

If you set DR to AUTO then the camera can use DR100 or DR200. If it decides to use DR200 then the RAW will be underexposed by -1 BUT this time LR can't read this and the RAW will remain -1 underexposed.

 

Explicitly set DR200 or use Auto and manually adjust.

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If you explicitly set DR100 then RAW and JPG will match.

 

If you explicitly set DR200 or DR400 then the RAWs will be -1 or -2 underexposed, that's the way the Fuji DR expansion works, BUT Lightroom will auto compensate and match the exposure to the JPG.

 

If you set DR to AUTO then the camera can use DR100 or DR200. If it decides to use DR200 then the RAW will be underexposed by -1 BUT this time LR can't read this and the RAW will remain -1 underexposed.

 

Explicitly set DR200 or use Auto and manually adjust.

Thank you very much for your reply.

Does that mean that Adobe reads Fuij's RAW file with 1 or 2 EV less than it should? I mean, am I losing 1 to 2 stops of RAW information? Or the RAW is complete but only set incorrectly?

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The underexposure is correct and the way it should work. The DR function is primarily a JPG help. The files are underexposed, to protect the highlights, then the JPG is produced in camera from the raw data by leaving the highlights protected (under exposed) and the midtones and shadows are brightened to produce an in camera JPG via an in camera tone curve.

 

If you are a RAW user you can do this yourself. Personally I prefer to use JPGs so do use the DR function. DR100 is the function essentially OFF.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi there,

I am new to this forum, as well. Coming from Leica M, I was looking for a second body/system and after making up my mind went with the X-Pro 2 with 23mm f/2. So far I am very happy with my decision, and with the fact that I finally could get rid of my Canon System (5DII and several lenses).

But I must confess that I am, at this point, still a bit overwhelmed with all the possibilities I have with the Fuji, compared to the Leica. I will need some time to get in to it, I guess – but so far this process has been great joy!

So, I made the same experience and found many of my pictures underexposed after I imported them to LR. I (think I) got it now. But this rises the Question:

Should I underexpose my images (when shooting DR100%) to be able to get the same Image Quality of those lovely JPGs when I develop my RAW files? (Of course, I could just use the JPGs, but I am used to use RAW and like to do some local adjustments like dodging and burning. Also I would like to sharpen in the post processing, etc.)

Or does it just mean: Expose to the light, to prevent areas from burning out and fix/get back shadow details in PP? (Which is the way I am anyway using in many occasions, with other systems, as well ...)

And does it also mean, in case I want to use both, RAW and JPG side by side, then I should always use Auto-DR, so that I have correctly appearing JPGs & RAW files that are underexposed to give the right starting point to achieve great images in PP (Lightroom in my case)?

In other words: DR100: expose to the highlights – Auot-DR: expose to the right?

Sorry, I hope this was not to confusing. I just try to develop a consistent system that works for me...

Thanks a lot and best Regards!

Edited by langwiekurz
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Hi there,

I am new to this forum, as well. Coming from Leica M, I was looking for a second body/system and after making up my mind went with the X-Pro 2 with 23mm f/2. So far I am very happy with my decision, and with the fact that I finally could get rid of my Canon System (5DII and several lenses).

But I must confess that I am, at this point, still a bit overwhelmed with all the possibilities I have with the Fuji, compared to the Leica. I will need some time to get in to it, I guess – but so far this process has been great joy!

So, I made the same experience and found many of my pictures underexposed after I imported them to LR. I (think I) got it now. But this rises the Question:

Should I underexpose my images (when shooting DR100%) to be able to get the same Image Quality of those lovely JPGs when I develop my RAW files? (Of course, I could just use the JPGs, but I am used to use RAW and like to do some local adjustments like dodging and burning. Also I would like to sharpen in the post processing, etc.)

Or does it just mean: Expose to the light, to prevent areas from burning out and fix/get back shadow details in PP? (Which is the way I am anyway using in many occasions, with other systems, as well ...)

And does it also mean, in case I want to use both, RAW and JPG side by side, then I should always use Auto-DR, so that I have correctly appearing JPGs & RAW files that are underexposed to give the right starting point to achieve great images in PP (Lightroom in my case)?

In other words: DR100: expose to the highlights – Auot-DR: expose to the right?

Sorry, I hope this was not to confusing. I just try to develop a consistent system that works for me...

Thanks a lot and best Regards!

ETTR on DR100 is probably the best bet, like you say it works on most cameras (and you correctly state that ETTR doesn't mean clip important highlight data)

 

Auto DR is a bit of lottery IIRC... the histogram may not correspond with the actual camera setting and you're at a bit of a lottery on how your raw convertor will note the auto DR meta data.

 

IMHO DR expansion best serves jpeg shooters

 

The complexity of the Fuji is a lot after an M :) (not that I've much M experience myself)

 

But FWIW IMO, you need to learn what you need, I've had my X-Pro2 6 months and there's loads of stuff that I've never used, I haven't even filled the Q menu profiles!

 

I find the Fujis are best (YMMV) on aperture priority mode, because the SS doesn't have 1/2 or 1/3 stops and it's easier to fine tune SS with the EV dial and a user selected aperture and ISO value, but that's just me, others will have different and completely valid ways of working

 

Anything else? Just ask!

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Hi Adam,

thanks a lot for your reply. It was helpful, most of all, to calm me down. I got that camera – and now I want to know what's going on there. But you are right: it is complex (coming form an M, and maybe also otherwise). I often read, how simple, and also slower, more focused, photography became for some people, with the XP2. For me right now, it seems really complex, ans super fast ;)

You are right, I need to figure out what I need and want to use. That will bring down it's complexity in the day to day use.

Thank's for your offer, I will ask when I have more questions. I am pretty sure I will have, sooner or later.

Best Regards,

Florian

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No problem Florian,

 

For me, I just turn off as much automation as I can!

 

DR - off

AF - off

Jpegs - off (test setting, I'm seeing if I actually need them)

 

Metering- varies muti mostly, then centre weighted, sometimes spot,

 

I have the electronic shutter on a fn button

 

I have auto ISO on a fn button

 

If the light isn't changing much, I shoot full manual and use the histogram

 

If it is, then aperture priority and use the histogram

 

I hardly ever use AF

 

I use MF and back button focus

 

The camera retains its last focus distance, even after a battery change, so if you make a manual focus, stand still and turn the camera off (for example waiting for someone to walk into the scene) then turn it back on again, then focus is where you left it

 

I set a monochrome jpeg profile (so the evf is black and white) and focus peaking to red so I can easily see it

 

The erf thing with a magnified view has quite horrendous shutter lag, but the camera is pretty fast in the other modes

 

Not quite M fast, but faster than a M240 using the Leica/olympus accessory evf

 

If you don't fully release the shutter after taking a shot, it will retain its focusing/metering settings and subsequent shots will be virtually lag free

 

If you press and hold down the trash can button for a few seconds, then press the rear scroll dial in it'll short cut to sd card format with out needing the menu

 

If you want to use the wifi, then in playback mode, press the fn button on the top plate (not matter what you've got it set too in shooting mode) and it'll launch the wifi

 

I know that sounds like a lot :)

 

But that's all the stuff you really need (IMO, YMMV) and all of it is available without the menu (once the initial pain of set up is done)

 

If you want to assign a function to a Fn button, press and hold the button you want for a few secs and it'll bring up the menu that lets you pick what the button does

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Thanks Adam, for so much insight. For now, I think I found some good points to start.

 

But I must say that I will try to make use of the Autofocus, a lot. I am a big fan of manual focus – in fact that was all I ever needed. But even though that I wanted the Fuji XP2 first of all as a backup to my M, I now like the idea to make it my first choice for situations where a bit more speed might be useful.

 

For people who come from a DSLR the XP2 might be a slow down (which many will finde very enjoyable) in their work. But in my case I see the potential for it to bring (back) quite a bit of speed in my work when needed (good AF, 8 frames/sec., still good image quality at high ISO, etc.) I also think I will mainly stick to Aperature Priority combined with Auto ISO. The M I am using all manual, only. I am excited, how it will be for me, using both cameras side by side, in the long term.

 

I must confess that so far I didn't get the chance to really use the XP2. I played arround with it a lot at home and tried to understand most functions (your answers where helpful, thanks again!) Now I am looking forward to take it out. From Februar onward I will be traveling a bit and I am looking forward to take the Fuji along ;)

 

Best,

Florian

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I find the Fujis are best (YMMV) on aperture priority mode, because the SS doesn't have 1/2 or 1/3 stops and it's easier to fine tune SS with the EV dial and a user selected aperture and ISO value, but that's just me, others will have different and completely valid ways of working

 

Hi Adam,

 

I'm guessing you already know this but for others that may not know, you can indeed fine tune in 1/3 increments for shutter speed using the front command dial to vary + or - from what's on the top shutter speed dial. If I understand your scenario correctly, you are essentially locking in aperture (AP) and ISO and then actually compensating exposure (via SS) with the EV dial as opposed to just wanting to set a specific shutter speed to ⅓ increments? Of course in shutter priority and with a fixed ISO, your EV dial will then be changing aperture to go + or - with exposure. Hope I understood you correctly.

 

Cheers,

Joel

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Hi Adam,

 

I'm guessing you already know this but for others that may not know, you can indeed fine tune in 1/3 increments for shutter speed using the front command dial to vary + or - from what's on the top shutter speed dial. If I understand your scenario correctly, you are essentially locking in aperture (AP) and ISO and then actually compensating exposure (via SS) with the EV dial as opposed to just wanting to set a specific shutter speed to ⅓ increments? Of course in shutter priority and with a fixed ISO, your EV dial will then be changing aperture to go + or - with exposure. Hope I understood you correctly.

 

Cheers,

Joel

Hi Joel,

 

Good to hear from you, it's been a while!

 

Yes that's basically it.

 

If I'm dealing with a static light scenario I'll use full manual, but when things change quickly, I use aperture priority and the EV dial to tailor the exposure

 

To be honest, in this situation I'm more using the histogram than aiming to achieve a specific shutter speed, if I want a specific shutter speed, I'll just set it!

 

Iirc.... setting the SS dial to T enables the front command dial to select all the shutter speeds

 

I'm sure you'll know this, but for others, if you set manual exposure but with auto ISO, then the EV dial can be used to change the ISO value.

 

This is occasionally helpful, but usually auto ISO with a min shutter speed is a bit easier to manage

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Hi Joel,

 

Good to hear from you, it's been a while!

 

Yes that's basically it.

 

If I'm dealing with a static light scenario I'll use full manual, but when things change quickly, I use aperture priority and the EV dial to tailor the exposure

 

To be honest, in this situation I'm more using the histogram than aiming to achieve a specific shutter speed, if I want a specific shutter speed, I'll just set it!

 

Iirc.... setting the SS dial to T enables the front command dial to select all the shutter speeds

 

I'm sure you'll know this, but for others, if you set manual exposure but with auto ISO, then the EV dial can be used to change the ISO value.

 

This is occasionally helpful, but usually auto ISO with a min shutter speed is a bit easier to manage

Hi Adam,

 

Also good to hear from you! Yes, it has been awhile. I hope to be more active on the forum now that I'm hiring some new help.  :)

 

I always like reading your posts and hopefully we can catch up one of these days.

 

It sounds like we work similarly. Time permitting I use M, otherwise AP with Auto ISO and use the min SS presets to move around my shutter speed.

 

FWIW, you don't have to be on T to tweak the shutter speeds (in fact I had forgotten that one.) For those who don't know, you can set any shutter speed on the dial and then use the front command dial to move it in one third increments either direction up to 2/3 + or -

 

For example, if you set the SS dial to 1/250 your in-between speeds with the front command dial would be 1/160, 1/200, 1/320, 1/400. Naturally if you want to go to 1/500 or 1/125 you have to physically move the SS dial.

 

So many ways to work with this camera!!

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