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Fujifilm X70 Rumors


Patrick FR

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i like the idea of a little camera for street photography, which is still capable of high quaiity images; however, as I have access to an X-A1 and have both the XF18 F/2, and the XF27 F/2.8 pancake lens which on the X-A1 is a pretty small combo. It would have to be pretty cheap.

 

You can pick up a new X-A2 with XC-16-50 kit lens for £299 in the UK, which granted is a little slower than F/2.8 on the X70, but more versatile.

 

Depending on what you need you can pick up some pretty cheap good quality Fuji kit atm.

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IMO, Fuji is doing a great thing here.  As fantastic as its current line is (and I've owned most of it) its easy to forget sometimes that MILC success is partially predicated on SMALLER.  But all of the current line-up just cant compete with the likes of Sony's NEX 5n size.  I started to think Fuji lost its way...along with Sony and its big full frames bodies.  Better image quality but bigger...too big.  I'm a traveler and the X-70 is perfect for that.  I'll pick up at least one for serious backpacking and no compromise images.

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well, the 1st commandment of marketing is:

 

“ Know thy customer” ... and what he needs.

 

I might be mistaken but, up until now, the X series of least success have been the cheapest models.

 

The X-A1 or 2 not to mention the X-M1 ( the camera which nobody understands ). Both these cameras are hardly selling (so I am told by my friends in the shop where I go) and some “ pro” shops even refuse carrying them (at least one told me so). Fuji appears to have introduced this camera to fit exactly in the same, unsuccessful (at least if I believe my friends in the shops around here), segment.

 

The X photographer’s crowd doesn’t strike me as a particularly frugal one and in general they have been showing to be partial to dial and knobs and generally dislike touchscreen menus.

 

So, Fuji now comes with a cheap camera with touchscreen menus.

 

Mmmmm? Did I miss anything anywhere? 

 

It is possible that they have conducted market research which tells them that THIS is what the market wants but, I am not so sure that the customer they are aiming at is the Fuji customer which they already have.

 

Perhaps they are attempting to create new converts and to do that they do it with something that is NOT what the typical Fuji customer has wanted until now.

 

So, humor me, suppose you have a X100S or T and you want another similar camera with a wide angle.

 

You can buy a screw on adapter that transforms your camera into one but it might be a fuss to screw it on and off and two is better than one. So you might be interested in another camera body with a fixed lens already in that territory.

 

You might not be too bothered by the absence of a viewfinder and might consider buying an external one.

 

One thing that you will most certainly want though is your camera to work in a similar way to the one that you already have.

 

Touchscreen menus?

 

Ok, so maybe the X100( S or T) customers are not the best customers for this camera.

 

Maybe there is another type of thrifty X user for it?

 

But if you are a really thrifty user, as Tikus suggests, you get a X-A1 or 2 kit?

 

We shall see how this camera fares.

 

There will be interests and sales in the beginning but then, when the novelty wears off, someone will start thinking that they could do the same, or better, in a different way and what seemed to be a great idea at first might reveal itself to be another less than successful project.

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I am in no doubt that, when the time will come, there will be a deluge of those!

 

However how to separate the wheat of honest reviews from the chaff made by people with a vested interest will be, as usual, very tough.

 

Internet is the wild west when it comes to these things. 

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IMO, Fuji is doing a great thing here.  As fantastic as its current line is (and I've owned most of it) its easy to forget sometimes that MILC success is partially predicated on SMALLER.  But all of the current line-up just cant compete with the likes of Sony's NEX 5n size.  I started to think Fuji lost its way...along with Sony and its big full frames bodies.  Better image quality but bigger...too big.  I'm a traveler and the X-70 is perfect for that.  I'll pick up at least one for serious backpacking and no compromise images.

 

... that's just wrong. Fuji's X series has never been about small, always about quality.

 

The X10 wasn't small, and the X70 X30 even less so for a 2/3" sensor.

The X100 isn't small apart from the pancake lens, the X-E's just aren't small either, and the X-Pro again even less so.

 

... where do you even get such an idea. All of them for good reason though.

 

Fuji has been on this very path from the start, the only off product so far is this thing, and maybe the X-A/M bodies though those do seem to have successfully attracted some newcomers to X-mount - and the optical quality their glass delivers even when wrapped in cheap plastic .. again at the cost of size. There is, some size difference between Fuji's 16-50 or Sony's 16-50 as you might have noticed. The results speak for themselves.

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I believe by smaller, he was comparing MILC to DSLR cameras.

 

A lot of people (not all) have switched from DSLR to MILC because of the weight savings

Perhaps a lot of people that are first time buyers to interchangeable lens cameras are attracted to MILC such as Fuji X line and Sony E mount because they are a lot smaller than DSLR cameras.

 

 

Slightly off topic

............................

 

If someone released a Bridge Camera with a large sensor (1" or bigger) with high quality Fast glass and an extended zoom (600mm eqv) , I know several people that would ditch their MILC or DSLR cameras for that purely down to the weight of the entire kit

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... that's just wrong. Fuji's X series has never been about small, always about quality.

 

The X10 wasn't small, and the X70 even less so for a 2/3" sensor.

 

 

I thought I had read in Patrick's post on FR that the sensor for the X70 was expected to have an APS-C sensor, in which case I see this as potentially delivering X100T like quality in a slightly smaller package but with different handling characteristics. I guess we'll see soon.

 

As a side note I just finished watching a doc on Vivian Maier on Amazon video and in it Joel Meyerowitz talks about how she used her Rolleiflex to get in really close to her subjects. He commented that because she was looking down at the camera and (supposedly) would not make eye contact that people probably would not be aware she was taking a photo. Interesting strategy and maybe that is an approach that would work with the (relatively) small X70 considering its FOV and lack of a viewfinder. I had been thinking about getting an X100T to go with my XT1 (and I may still do that) but now I'm mildly curious about the X70. 

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A lot of people (not all) have switched from DSLR to MILC because of the weight savings

Perhaps a lot of people that are first time buyers to interchangeable lens cameras are attracted to MILC such as Fuji X line and Sony E mount because they are a lot smaller than DSLR cameras

 

Of course, that's why nearly all of us are here. Fuji uses Mirrorless for efficiency, meaning nothing is ever bigger than it *needs* to be. The result is often less bulk, and less weight indeed, compared to DSLR that is. But it has always been quality first. If that means it has to be bigger (than its competitors) then it will be bigger, and they consistently enforce this philosophy with only a few exceptions really. This X70 would be one where they traded some usability for size, but still it's noticeably bigger than the Ricoh GR. Then there's the 27mm pancake that was made to be small and fit with the X-M1, losing the aperture ring in the process. They didn't sacrifice quality there either though, that's why it's only F2.8 where others most definitely would have gone for F2.

 

@Eric, sorry meant to say X30.

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The price points that have been thrown around are not what I'd call cheap, more expensive than the current price of the Ricoh GR. Cheaper perhaps than the Nikon Coolpix A when it was released (but that was a a couple of years ago), and that model is discontinued IIRC and readily available used on EBay for $300-$400.

 

If the X70 is north of $700 then I would expect it to have a metal body, and feel excellent in the hand (comparable to X10/20/30). I don't know if we have the exact depth of the camera, but from the pictures it looks pretty slim. The physical dimensions actually look pretty close to the Coolpix A, which is pretty pocketable.

 

I think the market for this camera is much different than the X-A1/2. It is a premium specialist camera, not many general consumers are looking for single focal length, wide angle APS-C camera- they use their phones for this already. But like the GR and the Coolpix A, the X70 is a great compact 2nd body for existing Fuji X System users who would like a 'take everywhere' compact that maintains the image quality and characteristics of their larger gear. I imagine that using the 'older' 16MP sensor allows them to use premium build quality without going too high in price, while still delivering great IQ:size.

 

OTOH if someone wants such a second Fuji camera on a budget, an X-A1 with 27mm 2.8 would be a nice choice.

 

well, the 1st commandment of marketing is:

 

“ Know thy customer” ... and what he needs.

 

I might be mistaken but, up until now, the X series of least success have been the cheapest models.

 

The X-A1 or 2 not to mention the X-M1 ( the camera which nobody understands ). Both these cameras are hardly selling (so I am told by my friends in the shop where I go) and some “ pro” shops even refuse carrying them (at least one told me so). Fuji appears to have introduced this camera to fit exactly in the same, unsuccessful (at least if I believe my friends in the shops around here), segment.

 

The X photographer’s crowd doesn’t strike me as a particularly frugal one and in general they have been showing to be partial to dial and knobs and generally dislike touchscreen menus.

 

So, Fuji now comes with a cheap camera with touchscreen menus.

 

Mmmmm? Did I miss anything anywhere? 

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Lets all respects others viewpoints, and read before commenting.  Different opinions and preferences are not "wrong".  One of the biggest selling points of MILC has always been size...  When I gave up 20 years of Canon and L glass, I did it because Fuji delivered comparable quality at a much smaller and more useable form factor.  Fuji may deliver great image quality with the X line but is not competing well in terms of size.  The X70 is a nod to this I think:  no compromise quality (APS-C sensor...) in the smallest body they could design.  For those of us who hit the bush for weeks with only a backpack, this is a great solution.  After all, if Fuji can make a camera with equal quality in a minimal form factor why would that be a bad thing...that's the real spirit of no compromise.

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Lets all respects others viewpoints, and read before commenting.  Different opinions and preferences are not "wrong".  One of the biggest selling points of MILC has always been size...  When I gave up 20 years of Canon and L glass, I did it because Fuji delivered comparable quality at a much smaller and more useable form factor.  Fuji may deliver great image quality with the X line but is not competing well in terms of size.  The X70 is a nod to this I think:  no compromise quality (APS-C sensor...) in the smallest body they could design.  For those of us who hit the bush for weeks with only a backpack, this is a great solution.  After all, if Fuji can make a camera with equal quality in a minimal form factor why would that be a bad thing...that's the real spirit of no compromise.

 

Nobody's calling anyone's preference or reasoning wrong. But to say Fuji lost or changed its way in any way, that is simply not true. They are doing the same thing they have always done. One may notice that after covering the basics they get on to the more serious and specialized optics and such, as soon as they had the confidence to do so, but it remains true to everything they have been saying and doing from the beginning.

 

Like i said, most of us are here for the same reasons. But too many people keep saying the same thing, they're here for 'no compromise' quality, yet they complain when it ends up bigger than the **** that Sony or such (used to) pull or even DSLR. Some things just don't get any smaller without sacrificing something, whether it's body handling, or optics .. it is whatever size it needs to be. Deal with it, or go MFT.  :P

 

Seriously though. Something like a 100-400mm, it just doesn't scale well or at all when aiming for equivalent results to FF. It's just how it is, and that is what they keep telling us they're aiming for.

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If the X70 does come in at €800 that's about £600 in UK assuming that price includes VAT, that is an expensive camera since the X100T is around £775

 

you can get an XT-10 with XC16-50 for £599, or XT-10 body only + XF27 f/2.8 for £675 (X-E2 is similar price)

 

Personally I can not see what in the specifications, justifies such a large price.

 

Apart from touch screen/touch focus what can this camera do that any X mount camera can not do at less of a cost granted it has 2nd gen X-trans sensor/processor which gives it a small advantage (arguably) over X-A range, and X-E1/X-Pro 1

It is not really any smaller

 

X70  - 112.5 x 64.4 x 44.4 mm (according to Fujirumors.com)

X-A2  - 116.9mm  x 66.5mm x 40.4mm (Fujifilm specs on website) +23mm for XF27 lens

 

So they X70, is a barely measurable 4.4mm smaller in width, 2.1mm shorter in height, but is 19mm smaller in depth compared to an X-A2 with XF27mm, but at more than double the cost....

The XA-1 fits easily in my jacket pocket with XF27mm or XC16-50. the 23mm saving on the X70 will make no real difference to me.

 

As this seems to be made of plastic, i think it is going to be a hard sell at €800 (maybe would stand more of a chance at €400)

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Maurice, on 10 Jan 2016 - 12:42 AM, said:
Nobody's calling anyone's preference or reasoning wrong.

Maurice, on 08 Jan 2016 - 10:40 PM, said:
... that's just wrong. Fuji's X series has never been about small, always about quality.

Maurice, on 10 Jan 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

Concerning size you said: "Fuji lost its way", Wrong. False. Incorrect. Nope. Untrue.

 

You've made yourself abundantly clear Maurice!  :)

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A lot more about this camera , like its real purpose in the X range  and the exact market segment to which it was  targeted, will only be only clear when the camera comes on the market. 

 

As for now and only based on pictures and the few, somewhat contradictory, news on, for example, the size and type of the sensor, it appears to be a camera targeted towards the young people ( indeed skaters would be a good target) seen also the fact that you can take selfies with it with the LCD screen tilting towards the subject, like the X-A2. This doesn’t strike me as a characteristic suited to a camera in the high end segment nor do I think this camera, its supposed use and the hypothetical people who will be using it will be of the same type that would have used a camera like a Rolleiflex and for this reason I don’t see any similarity other than they have a fixed focal lens.

 

This configuration, involving the LCD facing the user, makes the camera particularly suited to young “ action” photographer but maybe this camera is indeed the wide angle companion of the X100S-T. We shall see.

 

No camera can please everyone. That’s why there are so many. 

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Maurice, on 10 Jan 2016 - 12:42 AM, said:

Nobody's calling anyone's preference or reasoning wrong.

Maurice, on 08 Jan 2016 - 10:40 PM, said:

... that's just wrong. Fuji's X series has never been about small, always about quality.

Maurice, on 10 Jan 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

Concerning size you said: "Fuji lost its way", Wrong. False. Incorrect. Nope. Untrue.

 

You've made yourself abundantly clear Maurice!  :)

Jesus, how stupid are you. I didn't think i should have to clarify i wasn't talking about your opinion but about Fuji, now i have done so thrice and still you refuse to listen to what i'm actually saying. Nobody can tell anyone what to like, it should be obvious. Most of us chose Fuji for the same reasons, like i have said 3 times now. But i'm not oblivious to the fact that it can't all be miniaturized, and that Fuji never planned or suggested as such. That is NOT an opinion. But nobody's stopping you from having one on it. I have simply been explaining Fuji's ways, no more no less, if you are unable to take that information objectively i cannot help you with that. Did you just get your period or what, and yes that is a personal comment. Congrats, you finally got one.

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I’d like to abandon the personality clashes and focus, if I may, on an underexposed aspect of this new camera.

 

Apparently, according to FR, the new wide angle will have a wide angle adapter , the WCL-X70.

 

I think this is a nice touch and it possibly might mean that this is really a camera to be put next to your X100S or T to provide one or two wide angle options.

 

This adapter WCL-X70, actually makes a lot of sense because the X70 would cost a lot of money if it would just deliver, for the owner of a X-100S or T more or less the same focal length that one could acquire (at half the price of a new camera) with a WCL-X100. 

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Really hoping that the price rumors are off a bit.  If this is intended to compete with GR, Fuji missed that mark by a mile.  I don't think you can sway a GR customer at this price.  Not with the reputation the GR has.  You need to come in right around $550 in order to do that I think.

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