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Why do I prefer my x-pro1's images over my x-pro2's?

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I have a pair of XP2's and can't really fault them 

I also have an X100F

 

I really do think that the files from the xp1 and the xt1 I had were so much nicer !

 

Im having a tough time trying to convince myself bigger is better but I print my work to A1 and I have a lot of prints shot on the old sensors which are just lovely and yes you read it right .... A1 with no problem !

 

Obviously the new sensors will print to this but as others are saying they just are not the same

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I use this kit professionally and dare I take a step "backwards" ?

 

I am seriously tempted  !

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Comparisons are tricky.

 

Comparing things takes two forms, variable data and attribute data

 

Say we are comparing two cars.

 

Variable data is easy: which car is fastest, which one has the biggest engine, which one has the most seats etc

 

But attribute data is hard: which car is the nicer colour, which has the more stylish interior etc

 

The same apllies to the two X-Pros

 

Which has the most features etc

 

But even the images

 

The XP2 has more DR, bigger files, more acurity, better ISO performance

 

But that doesn't mean that one might not prefer the look and style of the original

 

In reality, I personally find that comparing two things that do the same job is always win some/lose some

 

I'm sure that if someone took out both cameras and took many shots, in many different places, duplicating the same scenes. Then they compared all the files, they'd prefer some from one camera and some from the other.

Edited by adzman808

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Ha! A very old thread, but it instantly resonates with me:

I still have the X-E1 at home. It was my first Fuji X camera (in late 2012) and I was so delighted with it's output. Kept it for more than 2 years as my primary camera for everything. Whenever I came home with photos, they were beautiful: sharp, vibrant, film- like.

I then went for the X-T1: Still excellent skin tones, but more modern color look, but so much better EVF, AF etc. Kept it for even longer than the X-E1, accompanied after a year by the Sony a7rII. Sony sensor is technically a piece of wonder, 42MP tack sharp with IBIS, deep DR, low noise etc. But the colors are one greenish mess in comparison. Sold it after a while.

In  early 2018 I bought the X-H1: IBIS; superb shutter, 24MP, and quite good color.

Until one day I looked through my 2012-14 archives, and man, I almost had forgotten how vibrant, filmish colors look like. What worth is a huge EVF if - in the end - the photos look less - well - photogenic?

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Funny this thread is still alive. I’m still happy with my x-pro2, but am still considering getting an x-e1 for that marvelous sensor, and the slightly bigger EVF. However, as I have started shooting vintage lenses, I remember how unimpressive the focus peaking was on my x-pro1, and it is hardly better on the x-e1, and then I’m back to keeping my x-pro2, where focus peaking is quite good. Ah well...

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For anyone who has used the X-Pro1 and 2 (and processes in Capture 1 ideally) .....

Ignoring completely the whole SOOC fuji magic debate between the Xpro1 and 2 (I only ever shoot Raw) is there really any discernible difference between the unprocessed Raw files from both these cameras? By unprocessed I mean how the file appears brought straight into Capture 1, LR etc...without any processing applied. 

Does the extra data in the Xpro2 Raw's (boosting detail, contrast, tonal gradation) REALLY produce a totally different looking RAW file to the Xpro1? or are Xpro2 unprocessed Raws pretty much the same looking as the Xpro1? And I'm talking about basic shooting, so not using lenses with an obvious signature and using available light. 

I don't mind if answers are vague and subjective! It would just be interesting to know if there genuinely is a noticeable visual difference between the unprocessed Raws of both cameras - I work in fashion, so key to my image making is the general aesthetic/signatures that different sensors create.

I've used an X100f since it came out, but I'm now looking to use vintage glass on an Xpro body, so I'm just figuring out if it would be worth having the extra data 'there' available in the Xpro2 to give me more latitude to play with in the files, or if the Xpro1 can create even more visually pleasing/interesting? (subjective I know) Raw files right from the get-go. 

Thoughts anyone?

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42 minutes ago, NST said:

For anyone who has used the X-Pro1 and 2 (and processes in Capture 1 ideally) .....

Ignoring completely the whole SOOC fuji magic debate between the Xpro1 and 2 (I only ever shoot Raw) is there really any discernible difference between the unprocessed Raw files from both these cameras? By unprocessed I mean how the file appears brought straight into Capture 1, LR etc...without any processing applied. 

Does the extra data in the Xpro2 Raw's (boosting detail, contrast, tonal gradation) REALLY produce a totally different looking RAW file to the Xpro1? or are Xpro2 unprocessed Raws pretty much the same looking as the Xpro1? And I'm talking about basic shooting, so not using lenses with an obvious signature and using available light. 

I don't mind if answers are vague and subjective! It would just be interesting to know if there genuinely is a noticeable visual difference between the unprocessed Raws of both cameras - I work in fashion, so key to my image making is the general aesthetic/signatures that different sensors create.

I've used an X100f since it came out, but I'm now looking to use vintage glass on an Xpro body, so I'm just figuring out if it would be worth having the extra data 'there' available in the Xpro2 to give me more latitude to play with in the files, or if the Xpro1 can create even more visually pleasing/interesting? (subjective I know) Raw files right from the get-go. 

Thoughts anyone?

A lot of it is subjective, and like asking people ‘what’s the best colour’ the answer will be skewed by personal tastes 

The complication of sooc raw is what the camera is set too... iirc (it’s a while since I’ve played this game with both cameras) - if say aperture mode is used, then (iirc remember) the XP2 likes to produce a darker image via employing higher SS than the XP1

So would that be a fair test? Say iso200 and f4 and ss1300 on one camera VS iso200 and f4 and ss1000 on the other... and if we equalise the exposure triangle between each body, which do we go with... let the XP1 chose its own parameters and set the XP2 to match or vice versa? 

As a general rule of thumb, the XP1 produces slightly lower contrast images, the roll off into light and shadow is smoother (to be fair the pixels are bigger on the XP1) and my HUNCH is that this is where the ‘more organic looking’ rhetoric comes from

Factually, the XP1 shoots lossy compressed raw. The XP2 doesn’t - which will give you more data to play with it (not that anyone will necessarily notice)

At the end of the day... take any two things that do the same job and are built and priced in the same bracket and category (cars, watches, cameras, food blenders, whatever) and do enough comparisons and it will always be win some/lose some between each.

One just has to decide which wins one personally needs...

...which brings me to my final point... vintage glass will give you a pretty look anyway, and the manual focus aids on the XP2 are light years (well about 4 earth years) ahead of the one (yes one, not even plural) on the XP1.

That might make all the difference to you in your suggested usage case.

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5 minutes ago, adzman808 said:

A lot of it is subjective, and like asking people ‘what’s the best colour’ the answer will be skewed by personal tastes 

The complication of sooc raw is what the camera is set too... iirc (it’s a while since I’ve played this game with both cameras) - if say aperture mode is used, then (iirc remember) the XP2 likes to produce a darker image via employing higher SS than the XP1

So would that be a fair test? Say iso200 and f4 and ss1300 on one camera VS iso200 and f4 and ss1000 on the other... and if we equalise the exposure triangle between each body, which do we go with... let the XP1 chose its own parameters and set the XP2 to match or vice versa? 

As a general rule of thumb, the XP1 produces slightly lower contrast images, the roll off into light and shadow is smoother (to be fair the pixels are bigger on the XP1) and my HUNCH is that this is where the ‘more organic looking’ rhetoric comes from

Factually, the XP1 shoots lossy compressed raw. The XP2 doesn’t - which will give you more data to play with it (not that anyone will necessarily notice)

At the end of the day... take any two things that do the same job and are built and priced in the same bracket and category (cars, watches, cameras, food blenders, whatever) and do enough comparisons and it will always be win some/lose some between each.

One just has to decide which wins one personally needs...

...which brings me to my final point... vintage glass will give you a pretty look anyway, and the manual focus aids on the XP2 are light years (well about 4 earth years) ahead of the one (yes one, not even plural) on the XP1.

That might make all the difference to you in your suggested usage case.

 

"As a general rule of thumb, the XP1 produces slightly lower contrast images, the roll off into light and shadow is smoother (to be fair the pixels are bigger on the XP1) and my HUNCH is that this is where the ‘more organic looking’ rhetoric comes from"

- that's my Hunch too, I think the roll off and less punch is exactly where this 'fuji magic' has originated from. Fuji did it beautifully right out of the gate on the early X series cams.  

Thanks for taking the time with the considered answer, much appreciated! Also, your final point about the manual focussing on the Xp2 being better is indeed an important one - I use EVF mostly, so focus peaking on a higher res viewfinder is probably a wiser choice over the Xpro1. 

Still have such heartstrings though for the Xpro1, it will always be a fantastic camera. Ho hum. Use the best tool for the job eh. Cheers!

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On 7/11/2019 at 3:03 PM, NST said:

 

"As a general rule of thumb, the XP1 produces slightly lower contrast images, the roll off into light and shadow is smoother (to be fair the pixels are bigger on the XP1) and my HUNCH is that this is where the ‘more organic looking’ rhetoric comes from"

- that's my Hunch too, I think the roll off and less punch is exactly where this 'fuji magic' has originated from. Fuji did it beautifully right out of the gate on the early X series cams.  

Thanks for taking the time with the considered answer, much appreciated! Also, your final point about the manual focussing on the Xp2 being better is indeed an important one - I use EVF mostly, so focus peaking on a higher res viewfinder is probably a wiser choice over the Xpro1. 

Still have such heartstrings though for the Xpro1, it will always be a fantastic camera. Ho hum. Use the best tool for the job eh. Cheers!

The XP1 is still good, it's just slow to use compared to the XP2. I don't just mean AF/menu usage/Fn buttons/Card write times.... But the lower res EVF non-coloured focus peaking is slower to confirm critical focus with... the XP1 is perfectly capable of getting things in focus, you just might need to take a little longer to ensure it has.

The XP1 is also a classic, the first of something new!

The XP2 is better in all tangible metrics, but once the XP3 lands no one's gonna get dewy eyed over the XP2

(OT, but it's the same with the Leica Ms. The M8 was the first of the digital Leica rangefinders, the M9 was the first FF one. They're classics with a cult following. Then the 240 came out, which was technically better. Then the M10 came out and no one cares about the 240 any more... I'm guessing the same fate awaits the M10 when ever the M11 lands!)

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On 7/24/2019 at 3:29 PM, adzman808 said:

The XP1 is also a classic, the first of something new!

The XP2 is better in all tangible metrics, but once the XP3 lands no one's gonna get dewy eyed over the XP2

(OT, but it's the same with the Leica Ms. The M8 was the first of the digital Leica rangefinders, the M9 was the first FF one. They're classics with a cult following. Then the 240 came out, which was technically better. Then the M10 came out and no one cares about the 240 any more... I'm guessing the same fate awaits the M10 when ever the M11 lands!)

I'm looking forward to the XP3 release almost just to see the effect it has on the other cameras.  I think you might be right about the XP2 being forgotten, but at the same time, I suspect a lot of the love and interest in the XP1 comes from those who only came to it later in the product cycle when it became a much more affordable camera, either new or used.  I was one of them - I lusted after but hadn't a hope of ever owning it when it was new, but years later paid literally nothing for it as part of a black friday deal a few months before the XP2 came out, and for the past few years now it's been very cheap to buy and try used.

The XP2 hasn't had that moment yet - even now, well into its third year and with the XP3 breathing down its neck, it's still an expensive camera.  It hasn't really gotten into the hands of the tinkerers and the hobbyists who might like to try it out as a second or third camera but can't justify the cost.  That'll change soon, so it'll be interesting to see whether it does just disappear without a trace or whether a new generation picks it up and runs with it as a budget marvel or new "classic".

Personally I'm all in with the XP2 still.  I went through my agonising over the IQ differences but concluded that it really is very subjective and even my opinion varies wildly over which is "best" in different scenarios.  What's less subjective is how much more capable and complete an overall camera the XP2 is in many other ways.  I've owned it longer than the XP1 now, taken many more pictures, and amongst them many more of my own favourites too.

Edited by Threaded

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  I loved my X Pro 1.Cameras in my opinion  are getting far too complicated, 4K video the constant increase in pixels. Why? surely 16 mps are more than enough for the average photographer?  You know what I’m digging it our the bag and going to start using it again. Was thinking about the new X Pro 3 but will put the money  on a lens

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Thought I'd chip in, a few months later to note that in the search for perfection and new features (and horror at the design changes on the X-Pro3) I did sell on my two year old X-Pro2 while it still had some value and picked up an XT3.

In line with the theme of this thread, overall, I preferred the images from my X-Pro2!  There wasn't a big difference but the XP2 edged it, and I know exactly why - because that was the image style I was used to.  Same reason most people are favouring the XP1 in this thread.

I also confirmed to myself that I much preferred the X-Pro layout and hybrid finder, and wasn't that impressed with the technological/speed improvements in the XT3 (it's good, just not that good) so I'm now selling my XT3 and have picked up a brand new X-Pro2 in the sales.  It just hits the sweet spot for me - more than good enough performance (far in advance of the XP1), great IQ, and great form factor, unspoilt by the excesses of the XP3...

Edited by Threaded

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I think the XP3 is absolute overkill for the Fuji X system and almost pointless

Its def overpriced and that "silly" Duratect coating......... really ?

I sell A1 /A2 Giclee Prints of my work shot on XP1 and XP2 and the prints are beautiful from both with in my mind the images from XP1 a preference but either is fine 

So there's a point ..... XP3 .... Why ?

People talk about Film Simulation ...... Thats only in JPG,  Shoot raw and if you really must use a simulation just adjust in your preferred software ..... Buying an XP3 for a Film Simulation is worse than buying a Leica for a Red Dot ( and I've bought plenty over the years :) )

Dont waste money guys and seriously dont listen to Fujis "X" Photographers ... most couldn't take a decent pic and only get used because they are happy to write pages of content .... Have you ever heard them say a bad word ?

Fuji make great cameras but please dont get caught up in the hype and waste your money ..... Your XP1/2 didn't suddenly stop taking great pics ... only you did that !

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Late to the party, I know, but I was totally sold on the original X100 and then the xe1. Subsequent models - xe2 and xe2s were excellent, too, but the X-E3 was a shock - VERY digital looking JPEGs, obvious and heavy-handed processing and flat-looking. Didn’t like the colours at all, and yes, I experimented. In fact, I returned the camera.

I do have two questions, though - has anyone noticed anything similar? And what is the 26mp sensor like?

Thank you all for an interesting discussion.

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