X100F aperture

[labenge]

I picked up an x100f today and just finished charging the battery. Turned the camera on and heard the typical movements as I half pressed the shutter. The lens focussing, the aperture moving. When I lifted my finger off the shutter, the aperture didn't snap wide open the way it does on my x100s. Instead, it opens in 6 or so progressive stages, making a rat-a-tat-tat-tat sound.

 

It finds its place fine when half- pressed. It's just when i stop "half-pressing" that the aperture stutters back to its open position.

 

Anyone else have this?

[labenge]

Here's a link to a short video showing the motions the aperture uses https://flic.kr/p/Spo5mP

[OleDK]

My x100f does not behave that way.

[wdahab]

Mine does. I just made a similar video before seeing you already had one. I've narrowed it down (for anyone else looking to check) to when you're in AF-S mode, and Aperture Priority mode (Aperture set, Shutter speed to auto). It's really annoying *especially* because it makes the EVF and LCD flicker as it reverts. Hopefully this is a firmware bug, and can be fixed, because I can't see how it's proper behavior, as it snaps back open in all other modes.

[labenge]

 I've narrowed it down (for anyone else looking to check) to when you're in AF-S mode, and Aperture Priority mode (Aperture set, Shutter speed to auto). It's really annoying *especially* because it makes the EVF and LCD flicker as it reverts. Hopefully this is a firmware bug, and can be fixed, because I can't see how it's proper behavior, as it snaps back open in all other modes.

 

I didn't have much time to play around last night, but I agree: it didn't happen when it was in manual focus mode (although I don't see why not, since I hadn't changed anything to do with aperture).  It also seemed to snap back after I snapped a picture. And it makes the EVF/LCD flicker while it reverts.  It was this flicker and the sound that alerted me to a problem.  The sound had me thinking I was in continuous autofocus, but I wasn't and watching the lens showed it was the aperture making the sound.

 

One opinion I received suggested that the difference in behaviour between the my F and my S is as follows: 

X100F lets you half-focus, fully depress to take the picture, and then go back to half-focus without losing focus. X100T/S does not allow you to do this so the aperture can quickly close right after releasing the shutter.

Edited February 24, 2017 by labenge

[wdahab]

I dunno if that explains the behavior though, since this isn't going from full to half, it's going from half to released. I'm gonna hope this is a (soon-to-be-resolved) bug.

[nvp155]

i really think Fuji needs to test the Cameras thoroughly within their R&D department before release

They leave it up to the industry to do their research & testing and then maybe a firmware fix

or better still for Fuji a new next model which is in their best interest.

Maybe we should have the jobs of the R&D team !

[kimcarsons]

FYI, the X-Pro2 and X-T2 (and presumably the X-T20) have the same behavior. IIRC a forum member contacted Fuji about it any they said it's a feature not a bug.

Edited February 25, 2017 by kimcarsons

[nvp155]

FYI, the X-Pro2 and X-T2 (and presumably the X-20) have the same behavior. IIRC a forum member contacted Fuji about it any they said it's a feature not a bug.

 

 

"a feature not a bug."

Whats the purpose of this feature ?

Edited February 25, 2017 by nvp155

[OleDK]

I wrote earlier that my X100F did not do that. However, I was wrong. I does "step" the aperture, but not always. I have not yet figured out under which circumstances it behaves like this.

[wdahab]

My main problem is that Auto mode so often (almost always) uses F2.0 even if there's plenty of light. So if I want more depth for street shooting, I need to set my aperture to F5.6 or something. But then the autofocus mode is unusable, especially because if I release my finger from the shutter it takes at least 3x as long to shoot the next shot than if I were in MF or full auto mode. If this is a feature I'd like to know what problem it solves, and if that's more important than ruining autofocus with a set aperture.

[nvp155]

Usually autofocus needs the maximum  i.e. f2 worth of light to operate

Therefore if you are shooting at f5.6 then the camera will need more light to operate the autofocus

The EV sensitivity of the autofocus needs to be boosted to operate at smaller apertures

[kimcarsons]

"a feature not a bug."

Whats the purpose of this feature ?

 

People complained about aperture chatter, this was Fuji's solution. By opening the aperture slowly, it's less audible.

[nvp155]

People complained about aperture chatter, this was Fuji's solution. By opening the aperture slowly, it's less audible.

 

How is this a feature? i.e.  Helps you take photos

[wdahab]

Usually autofocus needs the maximum  i.e. f2 worth of light to operate

Therefore if you are shooting at f5.6 then the camera will need more light to operate the autofocus

The EV sensitivity of the autofocus needs to be boosted to operate at smaller apertures

Obviously the camera needs to be at F2 while autofocusing, I have no issue with the aperture opening back up after you release the shutter. The issue is that it doesn't need to open the aperture so slowly that you can't take another photo.

 

People complained about aperture chatter, this was Fuji's solution. By opening the aperture slowly, it's less audible.

This isn't chatter. The chatter was before taking a photo. This is after the shutter is released, and it's not less audible. It's significantly more audible, and distracting as the display flickers. It also hinders the photo taking process, making Av mode in AF impossible to use in most situations.

[nvp155]

Obviously the camera needs to be at F2 while autofocusing, I have no issue with the aperture opening back up after you release the shutter. The issue is that it doesn't need to open the aperture so slowly that you can't take another photo.

 

 

This isn't chatter. The chatter was before taking a photo. This is after the shutter is released, and it's not less audible. It's significantly more audible, and distracting as the display flickers. It also hinders the photo taking process, making Av mode in AF impossible to use in most situations.

 

Well You bought it without waiting for comments on use and thoughts of users

Using the  x100s or x100T will get you the same results 

The manufacturers cameras don't make you into a better photographer

They have just made the x100F controls and everything else so as to have a back up 

camera for the x-pro2 users and attract more interest

Just had to be first to by the x100F so you are the guinea pig

[labenge]

Well You bought it without waiting for comments on use and thoughts of users

Using the x100s or x100T will get you the same results

The manufacturers cameras don't make you into a better photographer

They have just made the x100F controls and everything else so as to have a back up

camera for the x-pro2 users and attract more interest

Just had to be first to by the x100F so you are the guinea pig

Like Wdahab, I also opted to pick up an X100F when it was available to me. I was fully aware, as an early adopter, that there could be issues. And as I perceive issues, I report them on sites like this. My reasoning is twofold:

-others can tell me that my camera is either acting differently than othe X100Fs, in which case I may return mine as defective, or that theirs acts the same.

-or it maybe a common issue and posting provides this information to new buyers who haven't made the leap yet, and perhaps to fujifilm so they can also be aware and make firmware changes if possible.

Edited February 26, 2017 by labenge

[nvp155]

Like Wdahab, I also opted to pick up an X100F when it was available to me. I was fully aware, as an early adopter, that there could be issues. And as I perceive issues, I report them on sites like this. My reasoning is twofold:

-others can tell me that my camera is either acting differently than othe X100Fs, in which case I may return mine as defective, or that theirs acts the same.

-or it maybe a common issue and posting provides this information to new buyers who haven't made the leap yet, and perhaps to fujifilm so they can also be aware and make firmware changes if possible.

 

My post from before covers this fully

I really think Fuji needs to test the Cameras thoroughly within their R&D department before release

They leave it up to the industry to do their research & testing and then maybe a firmware fix

or better still for Fuji a new next model which is in their best interest.

 

Maybe we should have the jobs of the R&D team !

[batian]

My main problem is that Auto mode so often (almost always) uses F2.0 even if there's plenty of light. So if I want more depth for street shooting, I need to set my aperture to F5.6 or something. But then the autofocus mode is unusable, especially because if I release my finger from the shutter it takes at least 3x as long to shoot the next shot than if I were in MF or full auto mode. If this is a feature I'd like to know what problem it solves, and if that's more important than ruining autofocus with a set aperture.

 

Autofocus mode is unusable? C'mon man ;-)

 

You will find my two cents about this problem at the very end of:

 

http://peterpoete.de/the-f-stands-for-the-fujifilm-x100f/

 

No offence,

Peter

Edited February 26, 2017 by batian

[wdahab]

Autofocus mode is unusable? C'mon man ;-)

 

You will find my two cents about this problem at the very end of:

 

http://peterpoete.de/the-f-stands-for-the-fujifilm-x100f/

 

No offence,

Peter

 

To clarify, it only ruins Autofocus mode in Aperture Priority mode, which is crucial for on-the-street shots where speed is paramount. The first shot I take is quick. The second shot (or any recomps if you release a half-press then want it back) is too slow to use. It's actually not the flickering ruins it, it's the forced delay. It's mostly a problem because the full auto mode *loves* F2.0, which just doesn't cut it in daylight street shooting, which is when I really need fast reaction times.

 

Does it make it unusable in the most literal sense? No, because obviously pictures can be taken. Does it make it unusable in that there's a very specific, highly needed use-case where this issue makes me unable to use it? Yes.

 

And I'm fine with being first to test and find weaknesses for this camera, My posting here isn't to complain as much as to hope that Fuji actually reads these forums. If there is a technical need for this behavior, that's great. If not, and it's just an oversight, hopefully they fix it. What's most frustrating is people asserting that this is a solution somehow to the previous aperture chatter, which it isn't. Or that I should refrain from commenting on these issues because I chose to buy the camera early and so should keep my mouth shut about things Fuji should improve.

[OleDK]

 

My post from before covers this fully

I really think Fuji needs to test the Cameras thoroughly within their R&D department before release

They leave it up to the industry to do their research & testing and then maybe a firmware fix

or better still for Fuji a new next model which is in their best interest.

 

Maybe we should have the jobs of the R&D team !

 

 

nvp repeating yourself does not make you right. Of course Fujifilm have formal testing and of course there will still be errors. Anyone who have ever worked in software development knows that it is virtually impossible to have error free programs. And they also knows that you can't *test* quality into software. Try talking to software developers in avionics, space industry, medical devices or other life critical applications.

 

That being said, I think there are actually very few software errors in the Fuji cameras. And Fuji also gives us the benefit of firmware updates that not only corrects any errors but also new features.

 

And the "problem" we are discussing here is probably not even perceived to be an error at all, merely a design choice of how certain things should work. That you don't agree to that design choice does not make it an error.

[nvp155]

nvp repeating yourself does not make you right. Of course Fujifilm have formal testing and of course there will still be errors. Anyone who have ever worked in software development knows that it is virtually impossible to have error free programs. And they also knows that you can't *test* quality into software. Try talking to software developers in avionics, space industry, medical devices or other life critical applications.

 

That being said, I think there are actually very few software errors in the Fuji cameras. And Fuji also gives us the benefit of firmware updates that not only corrects any errors but also new features.

 

And the "problem" we are discussing here is probably not even perceived to be an error at all, merely a design choice of how certain things should work. That you don't agree to that design choice does not make it an error.

 

If Fuji's software engineers and camera developers would not be so predictable ( i.e. putting out cameras on a regular basis ) & did more testing of their products then they would make a better product

"developers in avionics, space industry, medical devices or other life critical applications."

You need to copare apples & apples Are you on the photographic wavelength?

Theses applications are run by software which total gigabytes of code not Fuji's simple Firmware which is in total less than 100 mb.

Cameras nowadays are built for consumerism and I will repeat myself again.

​A new camera will not make you suddenly take better photos.

 

[johant]

 

 

... developers in avionics, space industry, medical devices or other life critical applications. You need to copare apples & apples Are you on the photographic wavelength?These applications are run by software which total gigabytes of code not Fuji's simple Firmware which is in total less than 100 mb.

That's not necessarily true for medical devices. I know for a fact that some highly critical medical devices have a surprisingly small code footprint. Well, I know it for the products from one manufacturer, but I have no reason to believe that other manufacturers will be different.

[nvp155]

That's not necessarily true for medical devices. I know for a fact that some highly critical medical devices have a surprisingly small code footprint. Well, I know it for the products from one manufacturer, but I have no reason to believe that other manufacturers will be different.

 

Last time I looked this is a Fuji X Forum

[johant]

Last time I looked this is a Fuji X Forum

True ... so that's a reason not to respond on statements made about non-Fuji devices? (in this case related to code footprint sizes)