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GFX & f2 lenses spell the end for high end, x lenses


Naddan28

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I know plenty of people who seem to like to buy cameras way above their capabilities for no good reason than owning it.  :ph34r:

The same could be said about any other consumer product. I personally would prefer to own something above my ability than below it. Personally, I think that most people buy with the intention of being able to grow into it or the idea that if they some day need the feature it will be there. Between this forum, Fuji Rumors, and PetaPixel there seems to be a lot of people commenting about people buying cameras above their skill set. I even read one comment that said you shouldn't be able to buy a high end camera unless you are a professional. Wouldn't that be almost the same as saying if you are not a professional chef, you shouldn't be able to buy a nice oven/stove and limit your cooking to Microwaves and toaster ovens? Sure, a professional chef could even make a nice meal over a camp fire so the cooking device doesn't matter as much as the person behind it but sometimes the convenience is nice.

 

I agree there are a lot of people who buy something just to have it, but I don't understand why that matters. These people most likely tend to buy the Sony cameras more as they are buying spec sheets and the all the physical dials of the Fuji confuse them.

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Same thing for expensive cars, you only need a license, which only means that you can drive a vehicle with 4 wheels .

 

 

The only thing with that is that if you try to drive a Bugatti Veyron and you can’t you probably kill yourself. If you buy a super camera to take snapshots nothing serious will happen.

 

But buying expensive cars or cameras is not forbidden or should be.

 

 

I have no doubt that many of various ability would buy the GFX. Some would probably just shoot snapshots which will at most be printed 30 x 40 cm (if at all).

 

 

 

I’ve played saxophone for years in a community band when some of the worst players had instruments way more expensive than much better players.

 

Among saxophone players there is the illusory thing that if I only had a better mouthpiece then I would be a better player.

 

I suppose the equivalent among camera owners is : “ if only I had the latest camera and lens... then and then alone I would be able to accomplish that illusive picture”.

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I hope this isn't the case - where Fuji stops the development of high-end glass for the x series but I have to ask myself:  What else can they develop?  Also, I'm so glad I bough the 1.4 series of lenses --  I was looking at the 50 F2, pulled the trigger then canceled the order.   For some reason I just really, really like the faster lenses as I shoot in low light a lot.  That's just me though.  For those new to Fuji X, it may make sense to purchase the F2 series of lenses, heck you can get TWO F2 lenses for the price of one 1.4 it seems.  I could be wrong.  But, for the time being, you'd have to pry my cold, dead hands off my 16 1.4, and my 35 1.4

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Some of it depends I think on what is meant by tools above their skill set

 

Where as a GFX to shoot SOOC jpegs of say your dog sleeping on the couch is tech overkill for the task in hand, it also is worth noting that high end cameras give people a lot more scope for shadow/highlight detail, both SOOC and particularly in post from raw

 

When it comes to what the photograph is of, it boils down to De gustibus non est disputandum (in my opinion) when it comes down to how well the shot was exposed, then high technology can be a helping hand.

 

If someone buys a Leica M, then it seems that there's someone there to say, what a waste of money - my camera has more features and better IQ than that for 20% of the price, what now? Someone buys a GFX and people say, that's way more tech and IQ than you need, what a waste of money

 

Is there supposed to be some sort of 'Goldilocks' camera, that's not to expensive, but not too good either?

 

Also, the cachet of the Hasselblad XID/GFX/M can inspire people to up their game (as well as show off) as they feel that they want to get better

 

And what about truly expensive professional cameras, like the Phase Ones, how good a pro should one have to be before the internet community accepts the individuals right to buy one?

 

I used to be into motorbikes, and for sure there's a degree of FFS and eye rolling when one of the slowest guys on the trackday has the most expensive bike, but it is what it is and it's something to just accept IMO

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And thus the dilemma of going from cottage to corporate.

 

You pretty much summed up Fujifilm' scenario. One more to add, Fujifilm is by far a very small company. They're trying desperately to expand in a safe manner. The successes of the T2 and GFX50s showed them a very clear line of sight on where they should be headed.....and they're "coping".

 

I dunno. Anyone?

Fuji very small? Where on earth did you get THAT idea? They are much larger and currently more prosperous than Nikon.

 

Fujifilm
Revenue ¥ 2492.6 billion (2015)
Net income ¥ 137.1 billion (¥118.6 attributable to FUJIFILM Holdings) (2015)
Number of employees 79,235 (consolidated, as of March 31, 2015)
 
Nikon
Revenue Decrease ¥857.8 billion (FY2015)
Operating income Decrease ¥43.4 billion (FY2015)
Net income Decrease ¥18.4 billion (FY2015)
Number of employees 25,415 (March 31, 2015)

 

Cottage to corporate?

 

When the disruptive digital image technology hit, both Kodak and Fujifilm were huge players. Kodak failed, Fujifilm diversified and prospered. Fuji has now been in business for 83 years. You may not have noticed them as an equipment supplier since they only recently discovered the consumer marketplace. On the industrial level where they have long been a highly respected supplier, they produced superb lenses for large and medium format film cameras.

 

The Fuji GX680 was by far the most flexible medium-format film single-lens reflex both in design and with the superb line of Fujinon lenses. They also had a line of medium format rangefinder cameras that were legendary for ease of use and high quality. The Fujifilm GX645AF medium-format was rebranded by Hasselblad as their H1. To this day current Hasselblad H6D cameras shoot with rebranded Fujinon lenses and they will all work with the GFX adapter with fully functional leaf shutter sync.

 

Lest you too think they are too small to support both an APS-C and a medium-format line of lenses without one line suffering, check out their line of video production glass. B&H lists 87 lenses from which to choose with $3,900US at the entry level, all the way to $233,490.00 for a single lens!! Turn on your TV and chances are you are seeing through a Fujinon.

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?ipp=100&Ns=p_PRICE_2%7c1&ci=1884&N=3908282152+4291437653&setIPP=100&srtclk=itemspp

 

Add to this a dozen ciné lenses ranging from the just announced MK 18-55mm T2.0 for $3,800US up to just pocket change less than $100k for their Fujinon 14.5-45mm T2.0 Premier PL Zoom Lens.

 

Fujifilm is neither a small company nor are they struggling. In just a short five years they have been able to produce a well-balanced set of high-quality still-camera lenses pretty much on par with their industrial products. No pity needed, they are doing fine.

Edited by Larry Bolch
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X-Pro is definitely the format for me. I enjoy it's format tremendously. The Pro2 can be a bit smaller.......especially with the hand grip on.

Yes, I highly prefer the OVF cameras as well. From my point of view, Fujifilm could discard the EVF completely in the OVF cameras, if they provide good enough focusing aids in the OVF.

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Fuji very small? Where on earth did you get THAT idea? They are much larger and currently more prosperous than Nikon.

 

Fujifilm
Revenue ¥ 2492.6 billion (2015)
Net income ¥ 137.1 billion (¥118.6 attributable to FUJIFILM Holdings) (2015)
Number of employees 79,235 (consolidated, as of March 31, 2015)
 
Nikon
Revenue Decrease ¥857.8 billion (FY2015)
Operating income Decrease ¥43.4 billion (FY2015)
Net income Decrease ¥18.4 billion (FY2015)
Number of employees 25,415 (March 31, 2015)

 

Cottage to corporate?

 

When the disruptive digital image technology hit, both Kodak and Fujifilm were huge players. Kodak failed, Fujifilm diversified and prospered. Fuji has now been in business for 83 years. You may not have noticed them as an equipment supplier since they only recently discovered the consumer marketplace. On the industrial level where they have long been a highly respected supplier, they produced superb lenses for large and medium format film cameras.

 

The Fuji GX680 was by far the most flexible medium-format film single-lens reflex both in design and with the superb line of Fujinon lenses. They also had a line of medium format rangefinder cameras that were legendary for ease of use and high quality. The Fujifilm GX645AF medium-format was rebranded by Hasselblad as their H1. To this day current Hasselblad H6D cameras shoot with rebranded Fujinon lenses and they will all work with the GFX adapter with fully functional leaf shutter sync.

 

Lest you too think they are too small to support both an APS-C and a medium-format line of lenses without one line suffering, check out their line of video production glass. B&H lists 87 lenses from which to choose with $3,900US at the entry level, all the way to $233,490.00 for a single lens!! Turn on your TV and chances are you are seeing through a Fujinon.

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?ipp=100&Ns=p_PRICE_2%7c1&ci=1884&N=3908282152+4291437653&setIPP=100&srtclk=itemspp

 

Add to this a dozen ciné lenses ranging from the just announced MK 18-55mm T2.0 for $3,800US up to just pocket change less than $100k for their Fujinon 14.5-45mm T2.0 Premier PL Zoom Lens.

 

Fujifilm is neither a small company nor are they struggling. In just a short five years they have been able to produce a well-balanced set of high-quality still-camera lenses pretty much on par with their industrial products. No pity needed, they are doing fine.

 

Thanks for the facts and figures Larry. What's happening to Nikon is sad but perplexing. I'm still trying to understand their predicament. Anyone can shed some light?

 

Fujifilm Corp is huge, yes but Fujifilm digital division for consumer products is small but they are growing. They just broke through the 20% of the global mirror less market. Fujifilm is also into beauty products. With their lab of more than 20,000 chemicals, they have been creating color lasting beauty product formulation. They are also into healthcare and clean living products.

 

The lab responsible for their cine lenses is I believe a separate division altogether.

 

Anyway, I was quoting Fujifilm themselves. In every one of their launches without fail, they humbly admit that they are very small outfit and that our patience with them is greatly appreciated. I'm not sure if it's a pun but I took it at face value.

 

"Cottage to corporate" was a metaphor. Sorry if it sounded too literal.

 

Kodak is a famous case study. I don't take joy in their predicament as I love Kodak products. I started to shoot with Kodak and it's remained close to me since.

 

Anyway, Fujifilm won't be "small" for much longer. They've just invested in a new and substantially significant manufacturing plant to cope.....or should it be "cope". ;)

Edited by Aswald
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Fuji digital cameras is a very small part of a company that is mostly copiers and instant photography.

 

They are not struggling but the digital photographic sector was not particularly profitable with the exception of few models.

 

https://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en/investors/annual_reports/2016/index.html

 

 

Thanks Milandro, I was looking for the link! ;) 

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Thanks for the facts and figures Larry. What's happening to Nikon is sad but perplexing. I'm still trying to understand their predicament. Anyone can shed some light?

 

 

They are still focused on DSLR technology that becomes more and more obsolete.

 

Nikon 1 was a disaster. Nikon DL was starved by Sony. The new action cam stuff doesn't click, either. 

 

The Nikon booth at Photokina looked like a wasteland. So much empty space, so little so see. Compare that to the large crowds at the Fujifilm booth.

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Yes, I highly prefer the OVF cameras as well. From my point of view, Fujifilm could discard the EVF completely in the OVF cameras, if they provide good enough focusing aids in the OVF.

 

Haha...yes. By that I take it that you mean "digital assist" aids in the OVF? Sounds like an antithesis no? ;) .........somehow I'm thinking, "Cybernatic organism, model T-101".

 

But I have to qualify. I love the Pro2 as it's my personal choice for shooting for pleasure. For assignments, I take either the T2 and Canon gears.

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They are still focused on DSLR technology that becomes more and more obsolete.

 

Nikon 1 was a disaster. Nikon DL was starved by Sony. The new action cam stuff doesn't click, either. 

 

The Nikon booth at Photokina looked like a wasteland. So much empty space, so little so see. Compare that to the large crowds at the Fujifilm booth.

 

Thanks Rico. I almost shed a tear reading your post. Kinda sad really.

 

I also grew up with the camera that went to the moon.

 

The Nikon 1 was a phenomenon. I remember my nephew shooting 10fps next to me and I was the one with the dslr. :lol:

Edited by Aswald
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then It won’t be  ;)  :P .

 

Seriously I could certainly use my X-t1 to the end of its natura; life ( it is not infinite by the way apparently there are only so many clicks).

 

Shutter count is one thing. Electronic decay is the other.......

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Haha...yes. By that I take it that you mean "digital assist" aids in the OVF? Sounds like an antithesis no? ;) .........somehow I'm thinking, "Cybernatic organism, model T-101".

I don't care if they are digital or analog/optical ... as long as they are reliable and effective ;)

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And thus the dilemma of going from cottage to corporate.

 

You pretty much summed up Fujifilm' scenario. One more to add, Fujifilm is by far a very small company. They're trying desperately to expand in a safe manner. The successes of the T2 and GFX50s showed them a very clear line of sight on where they should be headed.....and they're "coping".

 

I'd anticipate things may slow down slightly for the X lenses somewhat. Hopefully not for too long. Personally, I was wondering, apart from the 80mm macro and maybe a 150mm telephoto. What may be the other X lenses that people need? I'd fully welcome the niche 33mm F0.95 but that's just me as I have use for it. Even a 35mm F1.4 v2 may be good.

 

I dunno. Anyone?

 

 

I would like updated versions of existing fast lenses. Adding faster AF and WR... so the 35 1.4, 23 1.4 and 56 1.2

 

I'd also love an updated 10-24 with WR and faster AF

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The Nikon 1 was a phenomenon. I remember my nephew shooting 10fps next to me and I was the one with the dslr. :lol:

 

 

It could shoot 60 fps (ES, of course), but here's the thing: Pretty much nobody wants a 1" system. Folks prefer 1" compacts, but Nikon couldn't deliver. In the meantime, Sony kills it with the RX100 series.

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Good evening,

 

Im my mulling

 

Fuji is very quiet in the top end bridge camera market

Lugging my XPRO2 & 100 - 400 around is weighty but valuable for the focusing and lower light opportunity

The danger I see to the X Series non profession user is a further upgrade in the bridge camera

The XS1 and HS 50 are good but not quite there and neither are the others i have checked in the shop

 

Because of the compromises involved it would have to be one wonderful camera to get the pros onboard but not out of the question, certainly I would be a gimmee

 

I love the OVF on my XPRO2 and with the shorter mm always use it but with the long zoom I always use the electronic viewfinder

 

However practically each business unit of a company produces its own profit and loss sheet, historically Fuji is birthed in film & photo paper and afterwards turned to lens and cameras. These are core divisions and whilst they may not make wads it would be difficult for the board to contemplate ditching  these entities as they are what Fuji is. That's not  to say they might wax and wane.

 

Going back to thread medium format at the price is not the threat! Tis Tother End

 

My cameras have never been retired for non performance, the new models were much more capable!

 

best regards & wishes

 

David

Edited by David Thompson
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It could shoot 60 fps (ES, of course), but here's the thing: Pretty much nobody wants a 1" system. Folks prefer 1" compacts, but Nikon couldn't deliver. In the meantime, Sony kills it with the RX100 series.

 

Which is why my nephew got his Nikon 1.......I can't help but feel as if it was made for "juniors" having a stab at photography. Generation 1 even had slow mo at the cost of pittance for resolution. I was scratching my head then and still do so now.

 

RX100 iv :wub: 

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Good evening,

 

Im my mulling

 

Fuji is very quiet in the top end bridge camera market

Lugging my XPRO2 & 100 - 400 around is weighty but valuable for the focusing and lower light opportunity

The danger I see to the X Series non profession user is a further upgrade in the bridge camera

The XS1 and HS 50 are good but not quite there and neither are the others i have checked in the shop

 

Because of the compromises involved it would have to be one wonderful camera to get the pros onboard but not out of the question, certainly I would be a gimmee

 

I love the OVF on my XPRO2 and with the shorter mm always use it but with the long zoom I always use the electronic viewfinder

 

However practically each business unit of a company produces its own profit and loss sheet, historically Fuji is birthed in film & photo paper and afterwards turned to lens and cameras. These are core divisions and whilst they may not make wads it would be difficult for the board to contemplate ditching  these entities as they are what Fuji is. That's not  to say they might wax and wane.

 

Going back to thread medium format at the price is not the threat! Tis Tother End

 

My cameras have never been retired for non performance, the new models were much more capable!

 

best regards & wishes

 

David

 

Good to share thoughts, David. I had a tough time shooting at the 400mm end of the fantastic 100-400. Desperately looking for a field scope when I was using that! You must have very steady hands....

 

Are people still into bridge cameras? I'm not sure but it would seem to me most brands are not doing well in that sector. Once OPPO successfully get their zoom smartphones going, it'll probably spell the end of things for bridge cameras.

 

http://androidandme.com/2017/02/news/oppo-shows-off-slim-5x-zoom-camera-setup/

Edited by Aswald
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Good morning,

Thank you for your words and direction Aswald

 

www.flickr.com/photos/davidthompson444/32403877044/in/photostream/

 

The Auto-Stabilization is paramount  and the real problem is the weight

It has taken a bit of practice to frame the birds or even find them with the EVF at 400mm or with the 2x converter

 

I like to walk and the great problem is what do you do when you need that great landscape

Its an exercise when you are wrapped up against the cold and my poor solution is the second camera

 

I agree that the bridge cameras are now in a fight for there lives against the phones and only the capability for long zoom is the standout feature - plenty small quality camera offers in the 1x to 4x 

 

Now the race for the mega-pixels is over and busted it is a straight long end printable picture race.

 

If you can get near enough to fill the frame and have the light the Fuji XS1 printed a  zebra to 20in x 15in for me with fine golden grass stems proving the clarity.

 

That wonderful 100 - 400 would be threatened if the bridge cameras made a significant improvement in ISO & Autofocus

 

 My reading of the situation is that for those that never print or just show and share pictures, the market for quality cameras is lost as quality is quite adequate from other offerings.

 

The market is in the hard things!

 

best wishes all

 

David

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