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GFX & f2 lenses spell the end for high end, x lenses


Naddan28

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I don’t agree but I don’t worry in the least... I’will carry on with my life’s vision, regardless. I have done it for almost 60 years already.

 

I understand that some people celebrate “ having” things above “ being". I try not to. The world would be a beter place if consumerism would’t rule it.

 

Using the derogatory adjective “ Puerile” ( which comes from the Latin for young kid, a son. Well ...thanks for the ‘ compliment” but I am not young nor am I puerile in my thoughts) about my opinions was completely unwarranted if you were aiming at being truly respectful of my opinions .

 

But that has given me now enough insight.

 

Using smileys, however, doesn’t take anything away from such rude ad hominem comments. You said that that you weren’t trying to be rude but you did succeed in being precisely that.

Except that my exact words were a puerile point of view, not that you were a puerile person, so hopefully you'll understand the difference between disagreement, opinion and character attacks

 

Beings as old as you say, and as opinionated as you are, I can't be the first person you've ever had a dabate with that doesn't agree with your every word, surely?

 

Sincerely, it's not my intention to offend you, which is why I wrote words to that effect. However, I did use the correct terminology to describe my sentiement.

 

Also the emojis (as I believe the kidz are calling them these days) were placed after the part about you agreeing with my thoughts on the subject as I found it highly doubtful that you would!

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you are now making a puerile point.

 

I clearly said your described my opinions as such. 

 

“ Using the derogatory adjective “ Puerile” ( which comes from the Latin for young kid, a son. Well ...thanks for the ‘ compliment” but I am not young nor am I puerile in my thoughts) about my opinions was completely unwarranted if you were aiming at being truly respectful of my opinions ."

 

 

please , let’s leave this here. 

Edited by milandro
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I'll give you a little insight if you like...

 

In the street thread, you commented that it was nice to see a street shot wasn't just a person in a street.

 

Fair enough.

 

But the poster directly above the shot you liked, had posted exactly that, was that a deliberate attack on that photographer?

 

Probably not, but could you see how that individual might have believed it to be?

 

So you see what's meant and what's taken, isn't always in harmony

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I bought into Fuji because they offer both small lenses that I use for my travels and fast, and if need be, large lenses for my professional work.  If Fuji where to stick to small, and slower lenses then I have no desire to stick with them anymore.

 

If Fuji saw no more need to make large lenses then they would not carry on making the 8-16 f2.8 when they have the 10-24mm f4 IOS lens available.  I'm sure we will still see the 30'ish f1.X lens in the future and for those that want it, like me, we'll pay for it.

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I bought into Fuji because they offer both small lenses that I use for my travels and fast, and if need be, large lenses for my professional work.  If Fuji where to stick to small, and slower lenses then I have no desire to stick with them anymore.

 

If Fuji saw no more need to make large lenses then they would not carry on making the 8-16 f2.8 when they have the 10-24mm f4 IOS lens available.  I'm sure we will still see the 30'ish f1.X lens in the future and for those that want it, like me, we'll pay for it.

Yes I want that fast 30ish lens too! There's always the Zhongi (spelling?) if one gets desperate (I've considered it...)

 

IMO the way to look at it (YMMV) is that the current fast/big glass range won't be added too in the near future.

 

But they're not going to stop producing the existing glass. So if a user is happy with the existent and fast 16/23/35/56 lenses then happy days.

 

Effectively they're not taking anything away.... there's just some possibility that they won't deliver on a item that was only ever rumoured and never officially promised (iirc)

 

As much as I'd love a super fast 35... it's the macro desirers that I feel sorry for!!! IIRC First it was going to be a 120 macro... then a 90, now an 80. And it still isn't here yet. And some (all???) of those configs actually appeared on the official roadmap, not just the internal/rumour mill one

 

Imagine if you bought into the system thinking 'well there's no macro, but one will be along soon' and then waiting and waiting

 

(Yes there's the macro rings)

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I'm pretty sure that three native macro lenses will suffice. Two of them have been available for years, one was even part of the original lens trio five years ago. 

 

 

 

Imagine if you bought into the system thinking 'well there's no macro, but one will be along soon' and then waiting and waiting

 

That would have been unwise, since every roadmap version stated that it can change anytime. 

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I'm pretty sure that three native macro lenses will suffice. Two of them have been available for years, one was even part of the original lens trio five years ago. 

 

 

That would have been unwise, since every roadmap version stated that it can change anytime. 

 

Ah c'mon Rico.. I was using the macro thing as an example about the folly of choosing your camera based on rumours (and even OEM roadmaps)

 

Besides... the purists will tell you the 60 isn't a true macro as it's only 1:2 (and they'd be right), the Zeiss is 1:1 but was never on the Fuji road map :D *and the 3rd isn't out yet - so spec subject to change :D :D

 

*edit my bad - yes it was

Edited by adzman808
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so spec subject to change

 

 

Yep. Don't buy vaporware. With Nikon, don't even buy based on stuff that has been officially announced, as the recent DL fiasco teaches us.

 

The Fuji EF-X500 flash debacle is another fine example.

 

Fuji is smartening up and becoming more vague, as you will see tomorrow morning.

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With the GFX system, recent slew of f2 lenses and pulling of the alleged superfast 33m I have to wonder whether it spells the end for any development (or redevelopment) of high end x lenses. What do others think?

 

Personally I'm on the fence and have held off investing anymore cash in my X series gear.

 

Are you asking if the GFX lenses will crowd the X-mount lenses out, or at least slow down development of new lenses?

 

Realise that still camera lenses are just a small part of the extensive range of lenses made by Fujinon. This includes the Hasselblad branded lenses that were initially developed for the Fujifilm GX645AF, which was rebranded as the Hasselblad H1. This gives the GFX a ready to use lineup of lenses with shutters to work with the announced adapter.

 

At this moment B&H Photovideo in NYC is showing 87 individual video Fujinons ranging in price from an entry level of $3,900US to a high end $233,490.00 for a single lens. Turn on your TV and chances are great whether it is a daytime drama or the biggest game of the season, you are probably seeing what a Fujinon is capturing.

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ns=p_POPULARITY%7c1&ci=1884&setNs=p_POPULARITY%7c1&N=3908282152+4291437653&srtclk=sort

 

Add in nine ciné lenses from $16k to just short of $100k and 28 industrial lenses. All that from a single store. 

 

From an initial three lenses—a typical photojournalist's kit—in five years Fuji has covered much of the range of focal lengths and types that the big two have had more than half a century to produce. Just sticking with Fujinons, not many photographic specialities are excluded. Plus third party lenses have come on strong to fill out the lines. Again checking B&H, they have 93 lenses for sale in the X-Mount at the moment.

 

It seems to me, that we have little to worry about.

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Are you asking if the GFX lenses will crowd the X-mount lenses out, or at least slow down development of new lenses?

 

Realise that still camera lenses are just a small part of the extensive range of lenses made by Fujinon. This includes the Hasselblad branded lenses that were initially developed for the Fujifilm GX645AF, which was rebranded as the Hasselblad H1. This gives the GFX a ready to use lineup of lenses with shutters to work with the announced adapter.

At this moment B&H Photovideo in NYC is showing 87 individual video Fujinons ranging in price from an entry level of $3,900US to a high end $233,490.00 for a single lens. Turn on your TV and chances are great whether it is a daytime drama or the biggest game of the season, you are probably seeing what a Fujinon is capturing.https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ns=p_POPULARITY|1&ci=1884&setNs=p_POPULARITY|1&N=3908282152+4291437653&srtclk=sort

 

Add in nine ciné lenses from $16k to just short of $100k and 28 industrial lenses. All that from a single store. 

 

From an initial three lenses—a typical photojournalist's kit—in five years Fuji has covered much of the range of focal lengths and types that the big two have had more than half a century to produce. Just sticking with Fujinons, not many photographic specialities are excluded. Plus third party lenses have come on strong to fill out the lines. Again checking B&H, they have 93 lenses for sale in the X-Mount at the moment.

 

It seems to me, that we have little to worry about.

And 6 years ago the top of the range Fujifilm camera was the HS20

 

They've come a long way!

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it is affecting it because it is changing the system into something else that originally wasn’t.

 

I chose this system because of its small size but everything ( lenses and camera) is getting ginormous because of the demand for things that are foreign to the initial thought of the system.

 

Anyway, It is quite clear, to me, that Fuji is making a different choice.

 

 

 

You are not making much sense... The faster and bigger 1.4 lenses came BEFORE the f2 lenses. Only recently do you have a range of smaller primes to purchase.

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I bought into Fuji because they offer both small lenses that I use for my travels and fast, and if need be, large lenses for my professional work.  If Fuji where to stick to small, and slower lenses then I have no desire to stick with them anymore.

 

If Fuji saw no more need to make large lenses then they would not carry on making the 8-16 f2.8 when they have the 10-24mm f4 IOS lens available.  I'm sure we will still see the 30'ish f1.X lens in the future and for those that want it, like me, we'll pay for it.

 

 

That is the same for me... I love to go out walking with one Fuji camera and prime lens. It is small and fun and weighs very little. 

 

When I am out on the street covering events, I bring 2 X-T2's with battery grips and the 2.8 Zooms plus the 10-24 and a couple fast primes. 

 

It is the versatility I appreciate because I get everything I need with 1 system. 

Edited by deva
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With the GFX system, recent slew of f2 lenses and pulling of the alleged superfast 33m I have to wonder whether it spells the end for any development (or redevelopment) of high end x lenses. What do others think?

 

Personally I'm on the fence and have held off investing anymore cash in my X series gear.

 

 

While I have similar fears about the X series being downgraded to a cheaper consumer line, I also tend to feel that there is often too much speculation about photography firms having "Grand Master-Plans" that they intend to stick to come hell or high water even to their own detriment. There is only one Master-Plan for any corporation, and that is to turn a profit. 

 

If it is profitable, then Fujifilm will make high-end X system bodies and lenses. It also means however that product differentiation between the APS-C and 4433 format systems will now become an increasing priority in their future roadmap.

 

Fortunately, an APS-C system and 4433 system are inherently well differentiated from one another. From a pragmatic point of view, you can't make f/1.0, f/1.2, or even f/1.4 lenses for a medium format system. Technically it is feasible but they would be so comically large that nobody would buy them. Nor can you really make long telephoto 4433 format lenses, expect to actually sell them (when they are sized and priced like the Hubble telescope), and have them focus at ultra fast frame rates to capture sports and wildlife. In the end one always ends up a field system and the other a studio system, with only a modest grey zone in between.

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I know that few  larger lenses have been there for quite a while, but they were few and limited only to some use. I have even ordered a 56 1.2 and then, then and there, changed my mind for the 60

The F2 lenses, I am very much aware of that, have fulfilled a particular need.

 

But the demand for lager lenses  ( 35mm f1) is now getting out of hand and it comes from the same type of people who are also demanding the camera to grow in size.

 

All of this is counterintuitive the philosophy of a camera which based its fortune on being smaller and compacter. There was once an article about the mirrorless cameras by sony ( and Fuji) growing and growing in size, that was a prophecy and it happened exactly that.

 

https://petapixel.com/2016/04/04/sonys-full-frame-pro-mirrorless-fatal-mistake/

 

Now there is this GFX which, hopefully, will capture all the interest and attention of those whom are all about larger and heavier. I wish them (you?) all the best of luck. I am not interested.

Edited by milandro
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The compact f2 lenses are very good and they keep enough market share open for fast, high-end lenses. Actually, to have two series of prime lenses, one compact f2 and a faster, higher IQ, and more expensive one is perfectly serving different markets. But right now, you have to accept quite some disadvantages when going the fast line: slower AF, noisier AF, missing WR. As if BMW would sell fast high-performance cars at a hefty price premium with sluggish and noisy steering. Entirely unacceptable. If Fuji likes to continue selling the more expensive x-series cameras as a serious contender competing with DSLRs they need high-end sub-f2 primes that are worth the price premium in any respect. Thus, Fuji, produce as fast as possible three new primes: 23 f1.2, 33 f1, 56 f1.2 with fast, silent AF, WR, (manual focus ring and OIS).

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hence making the system as big and heavy as a DSLR, which will then put them at a disadvantage because they will compete with cameras with a different philosophy, besides they will compete with themselves.

 

The way I see it is that some folks ( those who thing that bigger is better) will pursue the GFX  and the X camera better stay close to their origins to not enter this territory.

 

As the GFX will find its place on the market many photographer will have to necessarily evaluate whether the trade off of a smaller sensor are worth it or whether jumping to a larger sensor camera is not closer to their philosophy.

 

Seen the attention dedicated now to the GFX ( the internet is resounding of this acronym ) it is not difficult to see how lots of people will make the switch. The company will certainly need to prioritize one system over the other because ultimately running two competing systems will damage sales.

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In the few years since their inception, X-cameras have used the same sensor from the bottom of the line X-Trans to the top. They have used features and body design to differentiate their levels of product. To say that a $1,700US camera and a $6,500 camera will have any impact upon sales of each other is absurd. They are vastly different cameras and aimed at vastly different photographers. While the GFX offers the X-camera photographer a shorter learning curve with the same user interface, they are in no way competitive but rather complimentary. 

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I dont understand!

 

It's just like Apple making only 1 size iPhone, people wanted a bigger screen. Samsung allready had a lot of models with different screen sizes. Now Apple made bigger screen for those who wanted them and sold them even more.

 

So why bother, there are photographers there wanting and waiting Impatiently for 1.0 lenses from Fuji, let them make them.

Those who want lighter and smaller system have the 2.0 line of lenses and those who want speed they will also have it.

 

Listen, mirrorless is not only/always about size and weight:

Getting what you see (EV) and more efficient AF (though not quicker) are the qualities made a lot of us switching from DSLRs.

 

Of course i would like to see tiny lenses with f1.0 but i understand that miracles dont' happen and i accept bigger glass.

 

Finally, two lines of lenses (small and speedy) won't hurt anyone, but please everyone.

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We shall see!

 

If it were that absurd to think that one system wouldn’t influence the other, this forum wouldn’t be awash with so many enthusiastic comments about the introduction of the new format but there would be a new, independent forum, dedicated to GFX fans alone, there is a diffuse cross pollination and seen the tendency of some to buy stuff they don’t need but which they can afford ( I have the cash therefore I buy way above my needs and capabilities) I am sure that many X-T2 buyers will be buying a GFX ( as witnessed from the many who say they have already ordered one).

 

As for being complimentary ( we wish...) , I am not sure  ;) , probably you meant complementary.

Edited by milandro
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but companies  make choices and a company with a relatively small digital photographic division ( most of Fuji sales are in copiers or instant photography only a minute part and not even making a lot of money I may add, if you read their annual report) don’t have resources to pursue lots of different sectors.

 

My prediction is that they are now compartmentalizing segments, because running them alongside will reflect into internal competition.

 

Again, unless your crystal ball is better than mine, I have my marketing experience ( which I do have) and you have your own, only time can tell.

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yes, there will be impact,
but no i am not that scared.

 

Just look at Sony, yes there i was scared,

why? The want to provide things for 3 (!) Systems and Mounts,

and i did died 2 times with that ...... i think they have to much todo, only the guys developing new camera bodies seem able to handle it.

 

But Fuji on the other side had done it well.

Why? X-Mount Lenses are great - and there are plenty of it right now!

And, X-Mount will be the main thing for them ! of course we will see other lenses,

they can sell a lot more theren then with GFX.

 

GFX is to me more a think to see what they are capable todo, like a step into the formula one circus :)

 

I think the x mount will also profite from this step.

 

i really looking forward for the next years to come,

and i am proud that can be part of this.

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