X-Trans moiré on fashion photography

[victorreis]

Is there anyone here using fuji professionally in fashion photography? I would like to know about the moiré on the patterns... 

Thank you very much! 

Edited November 3, 2016 by victorreis

[True_Tech]

http://www.fuji-x-forum.com/topic/2715-fashion-portraiture/ 

Instagram

www.jmacapodi.com

 

I'm not a pro but I'm highly interested in fashion photography and transitioning to it, I have my first shoot planned with friends this week, I came across him on reddit, and I see him often during my research, just so happens he post here as well. 

Edited November 3, 2016 by True_Tech

[Adam Woodhouse]

I think the moire concern is with the video output of the Fuji systems, not the still images.  But I could be mistaken ....

[kimcarsons]

There's a lot of misinformation out there about this (unsurprisingly, much of it spread by Fuji's marketing)

 

The fact is that the X-Trans pattern itself does not really prevent moire or false color any better than Bayer does.

 

It's all about the demosaicking and noise reduction.

 

I don't think I've ever seen moire in Fuji's JPEG output. But you may see it when processing the RAW files in other software, where steps like demosaicking, denoising, and moire removal are separate and optional (although some amount of denoising is part of X-Trans demosaicking algorithms)

 

The bottom line is: you won't see it in the JPEGs because Fuji's in-camera processing is quite aggressive and thorough.

 

And if you see it in your RAW processing there are many noise reduction and moire removal algorithms which will reduce it.

Edited November 3, 2016 by kimcarsons

[bhu]

Pixel = picture element = group of sensor elements that, together, comprise the necessary information to reproduce any color the elements are capable of recording or displaying for the smallest solid angle. Individual color elements do not have to be the same size, either. OLED panels often use much larger blue elements than red or green to keep the drive voltage down and reduce burn-in while delivering the same amount of light as a smaller blue element driven "harder", but I digress. OLEDs are not used for sensors in any meaningful way.

 

Mosaic = repeating arrangement of picture elements (pixels). A mosaic may be as simple as a pixel like RGB-stripe, may be slightly more complex such as GR,BG (Bayer) where there are two green elements, or a bit more complex GBG,RGR,GBG in tiles that alternate between 0 and 90 degree rotation (portrait and landscape, if you will) so that it takes 4 sets of these 3x3 tiles to define the basic mosaic. X-trans is a 6x6 arrangement (mosaic) of 3x3 pixels alternating in orientation as if you are laying a patterned tile and turn every other one 90 degrees. 

 

X-trans is, arguably, a modified version of Bayer. The pattern is more complex but there are still twice as many green elements as red and blue and those green elements have some bias toward horizontal and diagonal lines but the pattern was "softened" by making quads of green elements.

 

Moire is still possible on X-trans but will be less apparent due to the disruption in the green elements' pattern. Moire comes from capturing and image with a pattern that largely aligns with the sensor's pattern, or a pattern on the media it is reproduced on like a computer monitor or electronic printer.

 

For more information, look up moire in Wikipedia and then modulation transfer function.

[Jwctp]

I shoot line sheets and e-comm fashion stuff. I see moire all the freaking time with the camera. Is it more than other cameras? I have no clue since I haven't used other cameras. But you cannot escape moire, even with the X-Trans color array. 

[Alan7140]

Yes, you can.

 

But you cannot escape moire, even with the X-Trans color array. 

Yes, you can.

Sigma Foveon DP Merrill.

No AA filter, zero moire.

[aceflibble]

I've not experienced any moiré problems with the newest sensors and processors (Pro2/T2), but I did with the previous generations (all the 16mp models).

 

The much bigger problem, and why I don't use Fuji for anything involving textiles, hair, fur, or feathers, is even the new sensors and processors are still no good with high-frequency detail. The area of fashion which makes up part of my work demands 20mp+ files without resizing, so clients can check details like stitching and fine texture all from one image file. This is why Fuji completely fails. Skin tones? No problem. Patterns? No problem. Moiré? Never. Colour reproduction? Absolutely fine once you've made a calibrated profile, like with any other camera. High-frequency detail? Completely smeared, even with absolutely 0 noise reduction of any kind, worse than any low-pass filter.

 

If your fashion work is viewed in a resized form or as, for example, a full length shot, Fuji works absolutely fine. If your fashion work is viewed at full size or includes macro/detail crops, either forget Fuji, or have a different system to hand specifically for the close-ups.

[victorreis]

I've not experienced any moiré problems with the newest sensors and processors (Pro2/T2), but I did with the previous generations (all the 16mp models).

 

The much bigger problem, and why I don't use Fuji for anything involving textiles, hair, fur, or feathers, is even the new sensors and processors are still no good with high-frequency detail. The area of fashion which makes up part of my work demands 20mp+ files without resizing, so clients can check details like stitching and fine texture all from one image file. This is why Fuji completely fails. Skin tones? No problem. Patterns? No problem. Moiré? Never. Colour reproduction? Absolutely fine once you've made a calibrated profile, like with any other camera. High-frequency detail? Completely smeared, even with absolutely 0 noise reduction of any kind, worse than any low-pass filter.

 

If your fashion work is viewed in a resized form or as, for example, a full length shot, Fuji works absolutely fine. If your fashion work is viewed at full size or includes macro/detail crops, either forget Fuji, or have a different system to hand specifically for the close-ups.

 

It's most lifestyle/outdoor. I don't work with studio, beauty, strong flashes, etc...

 

Do you use iridient? Here in Brazil the price of a used xt1 (new in official store: 2800 US)  is nearly a used d800 and a new xt2/xpro2 (importers) can buy a D800E/D810. 

 

Thank you very much! 

Edited November 10, 2016 by victorreis