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GFX vs XT-2


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i really love what Fuji have done here but for me the only real gain is a gain in Resolution.

So if you don't need the 50mp resolution theres no real reason to buy one.

If you compare it with the X-T2 you win about 2 stops with the bigger sensor (for noise and dof)

But when you compare the lenses (110mm f2 against 56mm 1.2) you win one and a half stops with the X-T2

so theres only about half a stop advantage. 

But, yes, if you need 50mp ....

Ok, maybe you get better dynamic range also, we don't know yet

 

 

 

 

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well, many talk the talk and not quite walk the walk, so, in that case...  :rolleyes:

 

the problem is that there is little to talk about, but of course, since people dissected the X-T2 way before it was available in the shops (it has been what? A week?) now the day after this thing is out there ( and won’t be sold for at leas 3 months ) we already start comparing a camera that no one has used yet ( and few ever will) to a camera that has been in the shops for a week and will probably receive several upgrades within a month.

 

It’s the fauna of the FORA ! :blink:

Edited by milandro
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i really love what Fuji have done here but for me the only real gain is a gain in Resolution.

So if you don't need the 50mp resolution theres no real reason to buy one.

If you compare it with the X-T2 you win about 2 stops with the bigger sensor (for noise and dof)

But when you compare the lenses (110mm f2 against 56mm 1.2) you win one and a half stops with the X-T2

so theres only about half a stop advantage. 

But, yes, if you need 50mp ....

Ok, maybe you get better dynamic range also, we don't know yet

 

My hunch is that you'd get exactly the same DR as the X-T2 / Pro2 but on a much higher resolution of 51.4 mpix.

 

While that doesn't sound like much, under studio and good lighting shoot, it gives good results for some commercial use.

 

Also, being a medium format with a larger sensor, I'm thinking bokeh may be somewhat an advantage enhancing the "sharpness" or crispness of the resulting image. That in itself will be a huge advantage to portrait / wedding shooters.

 

When you look at the initial lens line up, Fujifilm seems to be targeting portraiture photographers first.

 

If it is priced well, it will be a hit with these photographers. I'm fairly confident this fella will sell.

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In got used to 36mp in my professional work very quickly. I have never once said to myself "Gee, I'd like to go back to 12mp." 16 feels "adequate" for personal work, family photos, etc. But I won't turn down 24mp when I can make the jump. Of course it's a small market. Medium format has been small market for a long time. But it can really deliver in the right hands.

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This is a very good point. The 33x44mm sensor in the GFX is much smaller than a 41x56mm 645 format film negative and yet most of the GF lenses have max apertures equal to traditional 645 system lenses. People who already own fast XF lenses and are thinking about "going to medium format" primarily to get more subject isolation should tread carefully because the change in DOF might not meet their expectations. For those that don't love to do math, here are the GF primes and what the equivalent X system lenses would be:

 

23mm f/4 = 12mm f/2

45mm f/2.8 = 23mm f/1.4

63mm f/2.8 = 33mm f/1.4

110mm f/2 = 57mm f/1.0

120mm f/4 = 62mm f/2

 

On the other hand, I use an X-E2 and a Mamiya 645 film camera with equivalent short telephotos. The DOF of the Mamiya 150mm f/3.5 and Voigtlander 56mm f/1.4 that use with the Fuji should be virtually identical on paper and yet the overall ability to separate the subject is not the same. The Mamiya lens has softer bokeh and film seems to be more tolerant of very contrasty and busy backgrounds (eg strongly lit vegetation), so I prefer it anytime there is enough light and the size and weight of the Mamiya is not an issue. The GFX lenses and sensor may likewise have many little differences relative to the X system that don't seem like much taken individually but add up to a meaningfully different whole.

 

In any case, I am happy Fuji made this camera. There are photographers who need (or want) higher resolution than APS-C can provide and I think going with 33x44 instead of FF was smart for both marketing and technical reasons.

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well, many talk the talk and not quite walk the walk, 

Exactly.

12mp, bayer sensor X100 Original. What more do you need for the web?

I think this looks fine at full screen, no?

29074389143_f0944cec59_c.jpg

Wall Watching. by Begi Nabara, on Flickr

 

22999374161_4b2a5cf05a_c.jpg

Wall watching. by Begi Nabara, on Flickr

 

Or an XPro 1. Count them whiskers :)

19326607395_88681f1a86_c.jpg

I';m only a human being. by Begi Nabara, on Flickr

 

 

</Rant off>

Edited by Begi Nabara
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In got used to 36mp in my professional work very quickly. I have never once said to myself "Gee, I'd like to go back to 12mp." 16 feels "adequate" for personal work, family photos, etc. But I won't turn down 24mp when I can make the jump. Of course it's a small market. Medium format has been small market for a long time. But it can really deliver in the right hands.

 

24mp is my current favorite now.........hang on, I don't have anything higher! :P

 

Although I shoot 20 and 24mp nowadays, I'm still amazed by what my 12.8mp can do sometimes. So, I think the 51.4mp is great.....provided the photograph is outstanding.

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This is a very good point. The 33x44mm sensor in the GFX is much smaller than a 41x56mm 645 format film negative and yet most of the GF lenses have max apertures equal to traditional 645 system lenses. People who already own fast XF lenses and are thinking about "going to medium format" primarily to get more subject isolation should tread carefully because the change in DOF might not meet their expectations. For those that don't love to do math, here are the GF primes and what the equivalent X system lenses would be:

 

23mm f/4 = 12mm f/2

45mm f/2.8 = 23mm f/1.4

63mm f/2.8 = 33mm f/1.4

110mm f/2 = 57mm f/1.0

120mm f/4 = 62mm f/2

 

On the other hand, I use an X-E2 and a Mamiya 645 film camera with equivalent short telephotos. The DOF of the Mamiya 150mm f/3.5 and Voigtlander 56mm f/1.4 that use with the Fuji should be virtually identical on paper and yet the overall ability to separate the subject is not the same. The Mamiya lens has softer bokeh and film seems to be more tolerant of very contrasty and busy backgrounds (eg strongly lit vegetation), so I prefer it anytime there is enough light and the size and weight of the Mamiya is not an issue. The GFX lenses and sensor may likewise have many little differences relative to the X system that don't seem like much taken individually but add up to a meaningfully different whole.

 

In any case, I am happy Fuji made this camera. There are photographers who need (or want) higher resolution than APS-C can provide and I think going with 33x44 instead of FF was smart for both marketing and technical reasons.

 

I'm seeing the same thing.

 

Here's a question. Which on has better bokeh, a 16mp aps-c sensor or a 24mp aps-c sensor?

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I'm sure this camera will fill a niche.  And think about it this way:  More photographers into the Fuji house!  That alone is awesome!  

I've used Mamiya 645 AFD Cameras, and Hassy Digital.  Amazing image quality.  Would I take these on a stock/landscape/travel shoot?  No.  No freakin' way.  I found from shooting with these beasts that your technique is everything!  Mirror lockup, remote, tripod, etc.  If you don't nail the technique you "may" get a decent image, but you are not getting optimal results.

I have found this to be true with my D800 and D800e.  These were only a "measly" 36.3 megapixels but it is very demanding!  To get the optimal results the technique I use is the same as when I shot MF - Plus seriously good lenses to resolve the tiniest details.  

 

So, am I interested in the Fuji MF?  YES!  from a gear head point of view.  Will I purchase one?  That's to be determined.  I only have my D800e and a single lens remaining now as I've either sold or given away everything else since Fuji X came on the scene so it would be a very tough decision for me between the 800e and the Fuji MF. I'll have to see what the results are after it's been out in the wild for a bit.  That would be a very, very large investment for me even being able to depreciate it over time and all.  Big bucks...

But the burning question is:  Do I, or will I carry this weight around?  Heck I didn't want to carry my Nikons around anymore!

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Here are the DXO Mark scores for the Pentax 645Z that transiently appeared on the site before being deleted:

 

DXOMark645Z_zpsmwjzmzdp.jpg

 

This gives us a rough idea of the sort of dynamic range the Sony 51MP 4433 sensor is capable of delivering.

 

According to DXO Mark the Sony a6300 has 13.7 stops of dynamic range:

 


 

That means that compared to an X-Pro2/X-T2, the GFX 50S will at best only have about one stop of extra dynamic range. You pay a lot just to get minor incremental improvements.

 

Incidentally, Phase One claim 15 stops of dynamic range for their 100MP Sony 645 format sensor:

 


 

Image quality from the GFX 50S will nonetheless be better than the 645Z because of the short flange distance, elimination of any need to design optics accounting for the mirror box, shortened back focus, and the fact that a lot of Pentax's medium format lenses are dated designs from the analogue era.

 

The other big problem with the Sony 51MP sensor is that it is in competition with the 50MP Canon 5DsR. Canon also have a clear roadmap for sensor designs. They have publicly announced plans to manufacture a 120MP sensor:

 

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/news/120_megapixel_apsh_format_cmos_sensor.do


 


They also have showed off a prototype 250MP sensor. 


 


If the GFX 50S is on a four year product development cycle, by the end of it Canon may have a 120MP stacked sensor in a 5Ds. It could leave the Fuji looking ridiculous. Fuji need a sensor roadmap e.g. plans to manufacture an organic 4433 sensor, upgrades to the Sony 4433 sensor (e.g. addition of X-trans or a higher resolution sensor that doesn't cost an arm and a leg). 

Edited by Sator-Photography
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I've got great shots from my first digital camera with a 3MP sensor. Who needs more?

I don't doubt it for one minute. (Let's see some).

 

So why are you lusting after 50mp? Could your computer keep up with raw files from the GFX 50S? etc, etc.

Edited by Begi Nabara
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That said, my trouble is that I have been shooting with the 50MP Canon 5DsR for over a year now. It's the new normal, and my iMac is a few years old now. 

 

All I could think of when the GFX 50S was rumoured was "51MP?....is that ALL???" Gimme more! Like 75MP, plus X-trans. LOL!

Thanks for the image.

 

Show us how much better your images are from the Canon, eh?

Edited by Begi Nabara
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