KAIZEN IS BACK: Fuji France says: “Firmware Update for the X-E2 will come. Release date not yet fixed!”

[Arvellon_Nerd]

Did you buy the X-E2 after the X-T10 came out? They have always been and still are the exact same price as the X-T10 here in Holland and ( I was a few days ago in a major shop, so I’ve asked ) since the X-T10 has come on the market the don’t really sell X-E2’s anymore.

Yes, I did buy it after the X-T10 came out, but the price of the X-E2 had dropped roughly 200 € (Germany) at that point so I could not really resist. A temptation a sort of regret. Still an amazing camera though, don't get me wrong.

[milandro]

If they would sell it at €500 ( which is about €200 less than the X-T10 costing €699 everywhere around here) they would sell many more than they are, costing as it does the same price as the X-T10 for a lesser performance.

 

 

Here in the NL, the X-E2 is yes offered with a lens for a more convenient price than the body only option, but it is not tempting buyers as it still might, if it were sold in a combination where the body would cost you €300 or thereabouts.

 

Mind you this could indeed mean that, come December, Fuji in their immense magnanimity, will provide the X-E2 of the same software as the X-T1 and X-T10.

 

We just have no way to know now.

 

All I know is that many X-E2 owners have succumbed to temptation and bought the X-T10.

 

But who knows, maybe this will turn out to be an hasty conclusion.

[frod]

Feb 4th

 

Electronic shutter

[Tom]

I love Fuji! <3

 

[ Firmware version ]

 

FUJIFILM X-E2 : Version 4.00

 

[ Scheduled release date ]

 

4th February 2016

 

[ Improvements and function enhancements with this firmware update ]

 

1.New AF System(1) New AF system with Zone and Wide/Tracking modes for effortless capture of moving subjects

(2) Improvement of AF accuracy

(3) Eye Detection AF

(4) Auto Macro mode

(5) AF improvement in the Movie mode

2.Function enhancements(6) High-speed electronic shutter with a maximum speed of 1/32000sec.*

(7) White Balance Bracketing

(8) Enhanced ISO Auto Setting to AUTO1/AUTO2/AUTO3

(9) Exposure Compensation control in Manual.

(10) Natural Live View function is just like the naked eye.

(11) EVF / LCD Color Control

(12) New Video Frame rates (50P / 25P / 24P)

(13) Manual Shooting in Video mode

(14) Phase detection AF support for Instant AF

(15) Expansion of shutter speed in Program Shift mode

3.Operability improvements(16) The new user interface

(17) Improved Shutter Speed Dial operation

(18) Name of Silent mode changed to avoid confusion

(19) Direct selection of AF area

(20) Unlocked AE-L / AF-L Buttons

(21) Variable Focus Area during MF

(22) Q. Menu customization

(23) Interlocking of Metering and Focus areas

(24) Movie Recording

4.Other changes with the update(25) Supports focus limiter function for XF100-400mmF4.5-5.6 R LM OIS WR

(26) “BACKGROUND COLOR” menu

(27) The maximum number of images taken in the continuous shooting mode

[Maurice]

I like how the X-E2 firmware excitement sort of overpowers the X-Pro2 announcement, in the comments at least.

[Tom]

Why? The Pro2 is as expected. No surprise.

But the fact that the old E2 is upgraded to the specs of the new E2s surprises me.

That is lived Kaizen. Not like the Q1/Q2 way.

This FW4.0 gives a strong argument to invest into new technologie like the Pro2.

[milandro]

surprising and intriguing, since the first is still for sale, to sell the new for more 

[bdbender4]

I'm sorry but kaizen schmaizen.  I like my Fuji cameras, but I think they use their customers - us - as beta testers for incomplete software.  For some reason this has been turned on its head as a feature rather than a liability.  I ended up buying an X100T shortly after buying an X100S because Fuji simply announced shortly after I bought the S that they were done with X100S firmware updates and I wanted the better T usability.  This was pretty annoying and basically cost me $1000.  I was not tuned into "Fuji world" at the time and had no idea the X100T was coming shortly thereafter, since I was then and still am more tuned into "Canon world".  Sooner or later I guess I will have to sell the X100S since I never use it.  What a pain. Yes, Fuji had a widely available "roadmap" plan for introducing lenses - good for them. No, Fuji did not, and still doesn't, have a plan for either software upgrades or introducing bodies.

 

More recently, I bought an X-T10 because I finally gave up on any upgrades to my X-E2 after months and months of uncertain waiting.  Quite a bit more than a year if I remember right.  Once again, I wanted the increased functionality. Sure enough, now the X-E2 is going to get an upgrade with most of the X-T10 features.  The XT-10 is a fine camera, but basically another $1000 down the drain for it and the kit lens that came with it.  Although it's a nice sharp convenient lens, I don't really need it since I have four primes.  I will keep using either the X-T10 or the X-E2, but I really don't need both, since if I am being serious enough to want a spare body I bring a Canon 6D with USM lenses.  (Extremely reputable and capable lenses, often cheaper than Fuji, too, but never mind, that's a different topic.) But deja vu all over again in terms of the Fuji software upgrade.

 

I also hope this upgrade works - one of the earlier ones disabled the wi-fi function in the XE-2 for a while until another upgrade fixed the previous one.  If I am not mistaken the recent X-T1 upgrades took a few tries, also.

 

I don't want to sound like I dislike Fuji.  All I am trying to say is maybe the Emperor really doesn't have as many new clothes as the PR makes out.   I like the cameras for their small size, it is the mirrorless system I have chosen and gone with, the primes are spectacular, the JPEGs are very very nice, and I like how Fuji listens to their customers.  But I think they are getting some marginally deserved praise and undeserved credit for Kaizen when what IMHO they really have is lousy firmware quality control.

[darknj]

I'm sorry but kaizen schmaizen.  I like my Fuji cameras, but I think they use their customers - us - as beta testers for incomplete software.  [...]

 

They all do this nowadays. They even make cameras out to test water and make customer pays for the R&D for some specific features or an algorithm that will be used in the next flagship.

 

Granted, Fuji might not have a super tight control over their FW and might skip some Quality Checks for new releases of FW, but where have you seen anything even remotely close of that from other manufacturers ?

 

Canon almost never release any good FW for any camera, Sony had to be bemoaned at for several weeks before the introduced the 14 bit lossless compression ? Even Nikon is going to release a FW patch for the unreleased D5 because there have been enough ppl complaining about the ridiculous 3min 4k recording.

But they are all doing it for their flagship cameras, the lower lines are pretty much disregarded.

 

The X-E2 is still a 2 years old camera, I still find it remarkable that they still try to improve the features.

[milandro]

Well, perhaps they did act of munificence  “ obtorto collo “ since the lack of kaizen for the X-E2, had been welcomed by much frowning from all the X-E2 owners who saw a cheaper than what they had paid camera being introduced  on the market with way more capabilities than theirs which, at that time was only a little more than 1,5 years older.

 

I think this produced the strange X-E2S , which was hurried onto the market, as a result of a previous ill advised Kaizen interruption,  just to make things look like they were planned that way.

[marpar]

They all do this nowadays. They even make cameras out to test water and make customer pays for the R&D for some specific features or an algorithm that will be used in the next flagship.

 

Granted, Fuji might not have a super tight control over their FW and might skip some Quality Checks for new releases of FW, but where have you seen anything even remotely close of that from other manufacturers ?

 

Canon almost never release any good FW for any camera, Sony had to be bemoaned at for several weeks before the introduced the 14 bit lossless compression ? Even Nikon is going to release a FW patch for the unreleased D5 because there have been enough ppl complaining about the ridiculous 3min 4k recording.

But they are all doing it for their flagship cameras, the lower lines are pretty much disregarded.

 

The X-E2 is still a 2 years old camera, I still find it remarkable that they still try to improve the features.

 

Me too!

[milandro]

marpar, welcome to the forum, the “ like” button is best used when one agrees!   

[bdbender4]

"The X-E2 is still a 2 years old camera, I still find it remarkable that they still try to improve the features."

 

Marpar, no offence, but what I find remarkable is that they did NOT actually deliver the improved features a year and a half ago. The camera was perfectly capable of it then if it's capable of it now.  Precisely my point.

[marpar]

This is the business!

[milandro]

What I find remarkable is that they did NOT actually deliver the improved features a year and a half ago. The camera was perfectly capable of it then if it's capable of it now.  Precisely my point.

 

 

The lack of Kaizen for the X-E2 when the X-T10 came onto the market sent shock waves around which, in my opinion, are still reverberating to this day.

 

I thought back then and still think now, that they at Fuji had misjudged how, customers who had bought for a lot more money a camera that was in essence very similar to the X-T10 ( at least in potential capabilities to upgrade) and occupying the same market segment, would be confronted with the X-T1 being upgraded while the X-E2 wasn’t.

 

However it is true that Kaizen cannot be infinite.

 

Of course it has to stop sometime and not so much because of developing costs, since firmware is, yes camera specific, but can be adapted within cameras of the same generation, unless there is something which physically prevents it.

 

Often, there is NOTHING to prevent that. As we saw, for example with people hacking the software update of some cameras to provide older models with upgrades which were deliberately NOT provided.

 

To some extent the lack of upgrade is a marketing tool to nudge the customer into buying the newer model.

 

This is most evident in the telephone industry where some companies limit firmware updates to two years after the introduction of the model but sometimes they sell the telephones even after that date, so you buy a model that will never be updated.

[darknj]

[...]

Marpar, no offence, but what I find remarkable is that they did NOT actually deliver the improved features a year and a half ago. The camera was perfectly capable of it then if it's capable of it now.  Precisely my point.

 

None taken, and to stay on your point. Look at it the other way around. They could have NOT said anything, let the frustrated ppl buy the X-T10 for the new features and still launched the X-E2S for those that didn't grab the X-T10 and still leave everyone with X-E2 waiting for the XE-3 to be released.

 

Many manufacturers (*coughs*Canikon*coughs*) would have done it that way and everybody would have been "fine" with it.

 

Remember they are still a business and making money is still their number one goal. Everything else is secondary. Any business company that tries to convince you of anything else is purely and simply lying.

[milandro]

After having blowing their own horn for years on how Fuji based their commercial philosophy on Kaizen , dropping to the same level of others got them more negative publicity that they bargained for.

 

As I said before, they didn’t realize that their bombastic approach is a Katana, Japanese Sword, which cuts both ways.

 

You cannot tell people that they should buy into your system because you are going to look after them better than anyone else and then drop the promise which ushered a lot of buyers in.

 

It is certainly true that the expectation to receive continuous improvement forever are exaggerated but it is obvious that they weren’t planning to have to respond (otherwise the 4.0 firmware would have been updated then and there, a month or two after the introduction of the X-T10 as they did for the X-T1) to the wave of negative publicity which this ill advised sequence of events caused.

 

No one can convince me that it wasn’t a gigantic cockup, one which they have, only at long last and obcollo torto, made better, but I am sure that this has taught them some very important thing about how marketing works differently in the rest of the world that it does in Japan where population tends to be less critic that it obviously was elsewhere.

 

Just for fun, run a search with therms like No Kaizen or Failing Kaizen and see how many pages, blogs, threads on forums there are of people more or less disappointed .

[bdbender4]

The lack of Kaizen for the X-E2 when the X-T10 came onto the market sent shock waves around which, in my opinion, are still reverberating to this day.

 

I thought back then and still think now, that they at Fuji had misjudged how, customers who had bought for a lot more money a camera that was in essence very similar to the X-T10 ( at least in potential capabilities to upgrade) and occupying the same market segment, would be confronted with the X-T1 being upgraded while the X-E2 wasn’t.

 

 

 

Exactly.  My thought process was:

 

"The X-E2 has the same stuff inside it as the other 2nd generation high-end Fujis, and they promise Kaizen.  Great!  This Fuji gear is REALLY expensive for what you get, but not so much if they are going to support it so it stays current for more than 2 or 3 years..... Well, that first X-E2 upgrade helped the function buttons, but it disabled the wi-fi...... Ah, here comes the new X-T1 with the same stuff inside it, too, now we'll get an upgrade.  What the heck?! Nothing?!..... Ah, here comes a major X-T1 upgrade, now they will finally put the same stuff out into the X-E2, I still don't understand why they didn't do that yet.  What the heck? Again, nothing!..... And what is this - an "X-T10"?  It has the upgrades in it, and in a few areas goes beyond the X-T1, too.  So much for their bloody Kaizen, now I've got to buy this X-T10 camera to get the damn upgrade. And I'll have to wait for an X-E3 if I want my preferred form factor..... What the heck?  Now they're upgrading the X-Pro?!  Holy *hit, look at the price!  And I like the smaller lighter form factor without the OVF."

 

And then, to add insult to injury, NOW that I have bought the X-T10, NOW they will upgrade the X-E2!  Very frustrating.  

 

Yes, it's a business. But if you ask me, they aren't running this aspect of it very well at all.  Yet for some reason they are being praised for the way they run this aspect of it, which sure doesn't fit with my experience, as I have said.

[milandro]

The success of any marketing strategy often depends upon how well the marketing team connects with the market they are marketing their product to and in this time and age of global trade it is very difficult to connect with the many people in the world.

 

 

So, when Fuji came to the market telling the world that they were different, and their message might have been coming across differently in different part of the world creating different expectations.

 

One thing is for sure, although it is true that you cannot please everybody all the time, creating expectations which are then destined to be unattended leaves a negative mark greater than the positive impression left by the fulfillment of the expectations.

 

In other words: be careful with what you promise because if you don’t deliver on that promise you might find yourself in a pickle.

 

The pickle hier has now found a solution at very long last, afte months and months, the X-E2 owners will receive the Kaizen.

 

At the same time now there is a newer and more expensive camera on the market the X-E2S. A camera which, apparently now, contains almost the same things which the X-E2 will contain when the firmware will be updated.

 

So, why having two cameras?

 

Well, it might be just possible that future firmware upgrades will not involve the X-E2 but will only include the X-E2S?

 

Anyway, the whole charade of the X-E2 firmware upgrade, or rather the lack of it until now, has done a lot damage and revealed that Kaizen is just another word used in marketing, the meaning of which might be subject to interpretation.

 

Expect the worst, hope for the best and in the end take all you can get.

[darknj]

[...]

As I said before, they didn’t realize that their bombastic approach is a Katana, Japanese Sword, which cuts both ways.

[...]

 

Psst... A katana only has edge on one side, it doesn't cut both ways like a longsword would.

 

Again, I am going to play the devil's advocate here but is the X-E2 a bad camera ? I mean really look at it. Is it really THAT bad ?

The FW would have made it better, agreed. But that camera isn't bad in any way, takes in all the XF lenses and is doing great with the pictures IQ.

 

Plus, the difference between X-E2 and X-T10 is "mostly" form factor. The way I see it:

 

- Range finder like line, with X-ProX being the top of the line, the X-EX being the middle range.

- DSLR like, With X-TX at the top of that line and the X-TXY being the middle range.

 

If you objectively look at the differences between the X-Pro2 and X-T1 is just fancy ergonomics and 8 MP more, the rest is really just plain "meh".

[milandro]

Not this katana...

 

The analogy was precisely used because the normaL Japanese katana cuts one way, but this one has shown to cut two ways...they expected a Japanese  one way cut, they got in return a western reaction , the second cut.

 

The X-E2 is an outstanding camera, the way its “ kaizen “ was handled wasn’t all that wise leading to many negative reactions and the weird introduction of this halfway model.

 

I am still trying to ascertain whether the X-pro 2 has anything other than fancy dressing to it compared to the X-T1.

 

I have for example, asked in another thread,  if anyone, next to chanting hosannas, has made print comparison of the two cameras. 

 

I don’t own a X-Pro 2 if I did I would print one the same picture shot with both cameras and see if there is any REAL advantage from the 24 Mp.

 

The rest might very well be, as you say, window dressing. Only time ~( or a generous reviewer) will tell.

[bdbender4]

Sure, the X-E2 is an OK camera, but at the original price it should have been much more than OK.  Let us not forget how expensive the Fuji stuff is, and for how long the X-E2 has been down-priced.

 

Moving on, one of the things I was scratching my head about in my original posts was how people were congratulating Fuji for their firmware updates, when based on my experience they aren't really all that great at firmware.  Not terrible, but not great.

 

Yesterday I got and installed the X-E2 firmware, and am glad to have it.  While I was at it, I also installed the X-T10 update, since that is my every day camera at this point.  The update file for the X-T10, at 60M is larger than the X-E2 update at 56M. Huh? "Does not compute."  All Fuji says it is for is to limit the focus range on the 100-400 lens and improve the EVF eye sensor function.  60M for that?  Why do  I think they are being less than candid?

 

And now the X-Pro2 is delayed for - probably - firmware reasons.  

 

Again, I am a Fuji fan, and use the cameras and lenses, but these sorts of shenanigans don't help my faith in the brand.

[flysurfer]

Since the X-T10 has AUTO mode and a processor for it, of course its firmware is larger. Basically the same size as the X-E2S firmware.

 

Fuji France announced that the X-E2 would get a new firmware soon after the X-T1 got its upgrade. And nobody was forced to buy an X-T10 if they didn't want one.

X-Pro2 isn't delayed for firmware reasons.