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deepesh007

Have Fuji ditched old x series Xe 1 and x pro 1 no sign of any updates???

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I just love the XPRO1 for how it is now- otherwise I wouldn't have bought it.

And now that Fuji stops tinkering with it- it´s ready to become a classic.

iMaybe in the future people will complain that they don´t get the same color and tone from their XT4/5/6 as they did with the XPRO1- they´ll demand a backretrograde !

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German "ColorFoto" says they found he colors on the XPRO1 to be somewhat "softer" on skintones as on the XT-1...Here we go.

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the same people who say film is better than digital and records are better than CDs? For those people, I bet they think Fuji is doomed, they will NEVER be able to reproduce the colors of the X-Pro1 on any future X-T camera... Doomed I tell you. Just file for bankruptcy now Fuji, you lost your colors when you killed off the x-pro1 and for that you are on a death spiral of doom. You have lost your mojo.

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It is true that X-PRO1 and X-E1 have different jpegs output than the X-E2 and X-T1.

 

They are generally a bit warmer, and skin tones are a bit more pleasing, and don't get that nasty outrageous noise reduction at high iso.

 

It only matters if you care about OOC jpegs and shoot portraits at high iso anyway. Someone reasonable would probably make an exception for high iso even on an X-PRO1 or X-E1 and use the raw to get a better output.

 

In the end, for some, they are becoming classics and some will keep them just for that.

 

Nothing wrong with that.

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I'm quite happy with my X-E1/X100 as they are now, they received a lot of great support and work just fine as they are now. I don't think Fuji is in any way obligated to give me new features for these discontinued cameras, as long as I still get lens support. My X-A1 though, that one could've done with some Kaizen love, but then again it wasn't the smartest purchase anyway and only sits in the drawer as a backup, naked without lens and battery... poor thing. 

As for Classic Chrome, well I don't really get the drama about it, it's a nice looking simulation but I'm sure people can get something similar done with a custom Lightroom preset. 

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When people bought there xe1's and x pro 1 's there was no sign of classic chrome, I don't see the big deal that there are no more updates for these cameras. I have an xe2 and just bought a dirt cheap x pro 1 on eBay and am thrilled with it. I don't know of any other camera company that have listened to there customers as much as Fuji. Even when I call customer support in New Jersey they are very friendly and informative. Fuji in my opinion rocks.

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When people bought there xe1's and x pro 1 's there was no sign of classic chrome, I don't see the big deal that there are no more updates for these cameras. I have an xe2 and just bought a dirt cheap x pro 1 on eBay and am thrilled with it. I don't know of any other camera company that have listened to there customers as much as Fuji. Even when I call customer support in New Jersey they are very friendly and informative. Fuji in my opinion rocks.

 

That's precisely the point.

 

Imagine if you bought a brand new high end phone. 18 months later mk2 comes out with a brand new firmware. Wouldn't you be happier if the manufacturer states that the firmware and all it's new features are available for mk1 too?

 

....it's just nice to have CC on an already excellent camera like the X-Pro1. That's what we're saying....

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Actually, Classic Chrome on the Pro1 is an awful lot to ask. You're not going to see Classic Chrome on the E1 or Pro1 because the X-Trans I sensors inside them are not capable of supporting the profile; you can only put the current Classic Chrome profile on cameras which use an X-Trans II sensor. Fuji would need to remake Classic Chrome specifically for the older cameras, which would make no sense for them to do given the E1 was replaced by the E2 in 2013 and the Pro1 is about to be replaced by the Pro2. (And many would argue it already has been replaced by the X-T1.) You're basically asking them to throw away time and money.

 

 

Ace,

I beg to differ, the sensor has very little if anything to do with what film profiles are provided by any given camera.  To provide Classic Chrome to X-E1, X Pro1, X100S and so on would need little more than inserting a new line of code, just as the existing lines for the different profiles already provided for, into the existing processors firmware (note firmware not hardware) with new values to equate to those required for the Classic Chrome profile, all you will see or experience is an extra line on the respective menu.

 

As regards X Pro1 being replaced by X-T1 that is one of the most ridiculous comment I have ever read, the difference from Range-Finder to SLR is almost like fish or fowl, you only have to read how some people want one over the other.

 

As for myself I came into the Fuji fold by picking up an X-F1 as a replacement for an aged Panasonic FX30 (which still works perfectly well), that encouraged me to get an X-E1 and more recently a used X100S (yes I would like the Classic Chrome profile for both those units).  The E1 was a step into the dark in many ways for me having never used a Range-Finder before, I learned my photography with an old Praktica Nova slr, so have always used that form.  Today the E1 is used alongside a pair of Olympus bodies (E-M1 & 5), what I would now like is an E3 which to my knowledge will not come, this from various tit-bits gleaned from reps I talk to at dealers and the dealers themselves, the general consensus being that X Pro2 will be the lead Range-Finder (when it comes), with the budget A/M body as introduction, E series will be no more.

 

As regards X-T1, that is a body that interests me so little that without an E3 body I will dump Fuji, the T1 is a very good camera, which gives very good results, however those results are only marginally better than provided by the Olympus bodies, one could say good enough reason to go with T1, except the handling of the T1 is dreadful in comparison to the Olympus bodies, Fuji to me is Range-Finder, come on Fuji bring us a new X-E this year or early next before this Fuji user returns Full Time to Olympus and u43's.

 

I have just remembered a point of interest, Classic Chrome is available for the X100S as Fuji gave it to Zach Arias for his 100S, this information is to be seen elsewhere on the net, I will publish a link if I can remember it.

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To provide Classic Chrome to X-E1, X Pro1, X100S and so on would need little more than inserting a new line of code, just as the existing lines for the different profiles already provided for, into the existing processors firmware (note firmware not hardware) with new values to equate to those required for the Classic Chrome profile, all you will see or experience is an extra line on the respective menu.

While I agree that implementing Classic Chrome would probably be possible, this would require much more code than you could cram into just one line. The simplest case would be if film simulation modes were implemented as 3D look-up tables; in that case the code would be the same for all the modes but you still had to store another look-up table. There is much more to this than just setting a few parameters.

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While I agree that implementing Classic Chrome would probably be possible, this would require much more code than you could cram into just one line. The simplest case would be if film simulation modes were implemented as 3D look-up tables; in that case the code would be the same for all the modes but you still had to store another look-up table. There is much more to this than just setting a few parameters.

 

 

Perhaps you are right MJH, but not according to a programmer I know who has looked into the programming for the Adobe equivalents, as long as there are is an existing choice of emulations there is no real reason why any extra ones can not be added, the basic code is already written.  We are not talking of writing new code but simply using the existing code to create a new profiles.  In any case it is not a secret that Fuji have already done this work and provided for at least one photographer out in the wild.  So any argument readers have in defending Fuji in this matter is pointless as there is nothing to defend.

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Perhaps you are right MJH, but not according to a programmer I know who has looked into the programming for the Adobe equivalents, as long as there are is an existing choice of emulations there is no real reason why any extra ones can not be added, the basic code is already written.

See above – if film simulations are implemented using look-up tables then it is ‘just’ a matter of adding another table – i.e. data – while the code stays the same. There would be code to apply a look-up table to each pixel and that code would work with any number of look-up tables (read: film simulations). On the other hand, film simulations could also be implemented programmatically and I don’t know which one it is. In the latter case the firmware would probably be more compact (the additional code required for each film simulation would most likely take up less space than a look-up table achieving the same result) and be faster, but look-up tables are simpler to implement.

 

Adobe’s DNG camera profiles (.dcp files) which are used for emulating film simulations are mostly based on look-up tables. Such a look-up table typically comprises thousands (23,040 being a typical value) of points within the HSL (Hue, Saturation, Lightness) colour model, specifying some shift in hue, saturation, and lightness to be applied at that point within the colour space. With about 16.8 million colours and just 23,040 entries in the look-up table, the required shift needs to interpolated between the nearest colours within the look-up table. This is how Adobe does it; Fuji may be doing it differently.

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I wonder tho how long it would take for most people to get bored with CC and come back to raw editing or other simulations...

 

CC is not the holy grail of film simulation, blues turn green-blue, it has a quite strong red hue shift as well so while it may suit some people, that's certainly not something most would constantly use yet people feel they must have it vOv

 

And I say that as someone who would probably use it way more than most people as I'm interested in shooting JPEG to get a constant look and improve my framing / exposure / effects on hard mode ie with the camera.

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See above – if film simulations are implemented using look-up tables then it is ‘just’ a matter of adding another table – i.e. data – while the code stays the same. There would be code to apply a look-up table to each pixel and that code would work with any number of look-up tables (read: film simulations). On the other hand, film simulations could also be implemented programmatically and I don’t know which one it is. In the latter case the firmware would probably be more compact (the additional code required for each film simulation would most likely take up less space than a look-up table achieving the same result) and be faster, but look-up tables are simpler to implement.

 

Adobe’s DNG camera profiles (.dcp files) which are used for emulating film simulations are mostly based on look-up tables. Such a look-up table typically comprises thousands (23,040 being a typical value) of points within the HSL (Hue, Saturation, Lightness) colour model, specifying some shift in hue, saturation, and lightness to be applied at that point within the colour space. With about 16.8 million colours and just 23,040 entries in the look-up table, the required shift needs to interpolated between the nearest colours within the look-up table. This is how Adobe does it; Fuji may be doing it differently.

 

 

Hi Michael,

 

I notice you have avoided commenting on the fact that Fuji already has this work done and issued it out to at least one X100S user, so it really is pointless discussing this issue as there is no rational point in Fuji not making it available to all who desire it, I hardly think it will be a lost sale of an 100T to someone because they can get CC on their 100S, while it could mean many lost sales because they are holding out on one minor issue for no sensible reason.  As a point of interest, I do not use Fuji RAW files as it is hardly worth the effort of using the converters available for their RAW files, to get a finished image which is hardly any better than the OOC jpegs, in many cases they are inferior and yes before you say anything, I know they are not Fuji items but in general third party programmes, apart from Silky Pix. 

 

We all know the main reason why manufacturers issue updates is to put things right that should arguably be correct before an item goes on sale, however this is not the case, almost every new camera released is done so as a Beta test to let the consumer find the flaws for them, in that sense few people have any complaints, however Fuji in their infinite wisdom decided to also include new items to the software, ie film emulations & focus peaking,no one asked them to do that in the beginning, they chose to do it themselves in the name of customer loyalty.  I know some of the things that are asked for are ridiculous, like phase detection when the sensor is simply not capable, these are hardware issues, you want them then yes go purchase the new model but software issues, come on hardly worth Fuji turning around and losing the loyalty they were trying to encourage with Kaizen.

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I notice you have avoided commenting on the fact that Fuji already has this work done and issued it out to at least one X100S user

There are lots of things I refrain commenting on, either because it is hearsay, because I don’t care, or just because I don’t have anything valuable to add to the debate.

 

In this case I could add some facts about the different ways (and their pros and cons) film simulations can be implemented, as that falls within my field of expertise. And so I did; this should suffice to dispel some misconceptions. I haven’t seen the source code of the firmware so I cannot say what exactly Fuji has done and cannot comment on it.

 

With regard to firmware updates, I understand that I buy a camera with a certain specification and that I can expect it to conform to that specification. If it does not I expect the vendor to issue a firmware update to make good on the promised specs. Everything else is a bonus, not something I’m entitled to.

 

‘Kaizen’ is largely misunderstood, I believe. Striving for a ‘change for the better’ doesn’t mean that manufacturers should continuously add new features by firmware updates (free of charge). If a product gets replaced by a successor with new and/or improved features this is a perfect example of ‘kaizen’ but probably not what many people using the term have in mind.

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I've got a 3 yo Ford and I can't understand why they won't give me free servicing like they do for cars less than 12 months old! It's outrageous!

 

Seriously, Fuji has no obligation to provide these updates to superceded cameras, and to do so would actually be counterproductive when they are in the business of selling cameras. Y'all asking for this all the time need to make a decision - do I really need these changes? If yes, BUY A NEW CAMERA

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I've got a 3 yo Ford and I can't understand why they won't give me free servicing like they do for cars less than 12 months old! It's outrageous!

 

Seriously, Fuji has no obligation to provide these updates to superceded cameras, and to do so would actually be counterproductive when they are in the business of selling cameras. Y'all asking for this all the time need to make a decision - do I really need these changes? If yes, BUY A NEW CAMERA

I bet you if there was a firmware update on your Ford's PGM-Fi for better efficiency and safety, you'd be driving down to the dealer wouldn't you? Not only free, you'd get roast coffee too.

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Happened to me when I was driving the factory fit Ford Laser TX3 Turbo, down under.

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Don't forget the newer camera's have an updated EXRII processor. The xpro1/xe2 are of the first generation and fujifilm have clearly moved on. I'm not expecting any future upgrade of EXRIII/XTRANSIII features on the current generation.

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I would love to the xe-1 to get up different color focus peaking, besides that I love the camera, been using it for almost a year, just got a used original x100 and love that too. It does suck to have to spend 500 dollars to get a used xe2 just because I want color focus peaking, but I can't be too upset when they're offering these great upgrades and I'm not contributing directly to fuji because I have to buy used. 

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