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X-PRO 2 vs X-T2, what suits me more?


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Hi,

 

Used to own a x100s in 2013 but sold it and got back to DSLRs again and now I'm looking to go back again to Fujifilm
Recently sold all my canon gear and am now waiting for the X-T2, but the X-PRO 2 is available basically now and looks very attractive so I'm a bit torn.

 

Here's what I care about and not care about

 

I care about 

*Tilt screen. The X-T series has it. I really enjoyed it on my Canon 70D that I recently sold. Great for landscapes or weird angles.

*A good EVF. Both have it. the X-T1 has a bigger one but the X-PRO 2 has a "faster one" with higher refresh rate.

*Ergonomics. I felt both on the X-T1 and the X-PRO 1 and the first impression was that the X-T1 feels more comfortable because of the bigger grip.

*Discretion. I always bring my camera with me on travels and enjoy doing a bit of street photography, and therefor it's important to me that the camera isn't bringing a lot of attention. Both cameras are pretty small but my impression is that the X-PRO 2 with it's rangerfinder style body is more discrete than the DSLR style of the X-T series.

 

I don't care about

*4K video which I recently learned the X-T2 will have. Don't care about video much at all to be honest.

*OVF. When I had my X100s I only used the EVF. This is one of the biggest differences between the X-T series and the X-Pro series. I guess it makes no sense getting the XPRO 2 if you don't care about OVF?

Or maybe I should care about the OVF? Please enlighten me :)

*ISO dial (I usually put my cam on AUTO ISO anyway (mininum shutter 1/125 or 1/60 depening on the lens and situation).

 

 

Does it make more sense to wait for the X-T2 in my case?

Edited by Hermelin
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I think you virtually answered your own question: from your list of favorite features, only "discretion" perhaps favors the X-Pro2. Mind you, the X-T1 is actually physically smaller than the X-Pro2, but we can't know about the X-T2.

 

The X-T2 shall also probably feature a more advanced EVF than the X-T1 (perhaps the new Epson 4mp one?)

 

The trouble is, there is absolutely no information on release date. Are you ready to wait, say, until the end of 2016?

 

Perhaps the best course of action for your needs (as described) would be to get a X-T1 now (perhaps even used, to cut on costs) and build your lens collection until the X-T2 becomes available.

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I agree with the above. I'd also add that the EVF on my X100T lacks the color and contrast that the EVF on my X-T1 has. The X-T1 is small and you can add some black tape over the branding if you want. Unless they change the body of the X-T2, I think it's the camera for you. If you want something in the mean time, you may want to pick up one of the X-E2 deals from Adorama and either keep it as a second body or sell it after you get the X-T2. I personally really like a lot about the X-Pro 1 when it was released, but the sluggishness of it overall was enough to keep me away. The X-Pro2 resolves those issues so I have one on order. i think the X-T1 and X-T2 when it is released will still be the primary camera for me, but there is just something I like about the design of the x-pro series. I can't even claim nostalgia as I'm not old enough

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Depending on if you live near a Fuji dealer who will stock a full line, why not wait for an X-Pro 2 to go on display and try it alongside an X-T1? There are a couple of fairly significant ergonomic improvements from Pro-1 to Pro-2, including a better grip, some new button placements and the new focusing joystick (which everyone who's used seems to love). I'm almost sure the X-T2 will have a better EVF than the X-Pro 2, but it may not pick up the joystick - I don't see how they'd squeeze it in - the tilt screen takes up quite a bit of extra space? Given the probable increased video emphasis on the X-T2, it might (or might not) get touchscreen focusing control instead of the joystick... I know that I'd hugely prefer the joystick. I'm sure the X-T2 will at least have the X-T1's focus area control system, probably in addition to either the joystick or a touchscreen.

If you play with the two, here are some things to keep in mind:

The X-T1 EVF will serve as a minimum standard of what you can expect from an X-T2.

Who knows what extra focusing controls the X-T2 will bring, but it should have everything the X-T1 has.

The X-T2 will have either the X-T1's ISO dial or the X-Pro 2's.

No idea if the X-T2 will pick up the dual card slots from the X-Pro 2 - it could be single-slot (if they can't fit a second one in), two slots, but only one UHS-II (like the X-Pro 2), or dual UHS-II in keeping with the increased video emphasis.

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Hi, 

I have the chance to work 5 minutes away from the Fuji showroom in Tokyo :-) 

Meaning I could play quite a bit with the T1 and Pro2.

 

I guess there are very different criteria depending on the people, but here's my take: 

The Pro2

+ has a wonderful joystick (really a game changer, although just a small bit of plastic)

+ a good VF (I love the fact it is on the left corner, as I shoot with my right eye and have a relatively long nose, I guess)

- although the grip is better than the Pro1, it is still very unpractical and uncomfortable (at least for me), especially with larger lenses. And I don't like much the idea of adding a heavy grip to change that...

- no tilt screen is a bit disappointing, although I understand the reasons

 

Personally I chose to take some time to wait for the T2 and see if they add the joystick and improve the grip... Even the T1's grip is rather small: I'd love it if they designed something close to the Sony A7 II of the Panasonic GX8. 

 

Anyway, it's a personal decision at the end so you need to spend time in a store playing with the Pro2 to make sure.

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Thanks for all the feedback.

 

I'm getting more and more interested in the OVF of the XPRO-2. I like the idea and see the advantage of beeing able to see outside the shooting frame.

 

But I guess I'll wait for the X-T2.

 

 

Do you were glasses?

Nope

Edited by Hermelin
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First shots on my Pro-2 this morning, and it's a wonderfully handling camera - I immediately like it even better than my X-T1 (itself a beautiful handler), although the EVF is not quite as good. The joystick makes a big difference, and the shutter speed, exposure compensation and control dials are all improved. I even like the dial-in-dial ISO mechanism better than the locked dial on the opposite side of the X-T1. I really don't miss the drive dial, which I knock out of position  frequently on the X-T1 (I use it just enough that I can't always leave it shut off - I'd far rather have a drive mode button in X-Pro 2 style). Build quality is improved from the already very good X-T1 (the most noticeable spots for me are the dials and the SD card door).

 

Who knows if all those improvements will make it to the X-T2? I suspect a couple of them will, but others won't. I'd be surprised to get the big, beautiful shutter speed and exposure compensation dials, because there may not be room on the X-T2's smaller top plate (unless they make the body a bit thicker). Since the tilt screen takes up additional space, I'm not at all sure the joystick will fit, either. On the other hand, there will be some improvements that go only to the X-T2... X-T2 owners WILL get a tilt screen, and I have a strong suspicion it might be a touchscreen if the joystick doesn't make it. I'd be very surprised if some version of the improved card door design doesn't make the transition to the X-T2, and I suspect the front and rear control dials will either make it or even see another improvement. There is, of course, more room for an EVF in an X-T2, so it will certainly have the higher magnification from the X-T1, and possibly a higher resolution or refresh rate as well.

 

One real determinant of how advanced the X-T2 will be is where Fuji decides to position it in their line. With some of the new lenses (especially the long telephotos), it might make sense to have a body above the present position of the X-T1 ($2000?). Such a camera would have a very high frame rate, dual card slots (maybe both UHS-II), and a really high grade EVF similar to the one in the Leica SL. It would probably also have very high grade video - 4K with a high quality codec and high bit rates. It could be a true hybrid camera, similar to an A7rII in that respect, although without the full frame and very high resolution, and with the full Fujinon lens lineup (not a "mostly video" camera like an A7s or GH4).Both the sensor and processor from the X-Pro 2 can actually support a hybrid like that. It might be a slightly larger or heavier body to accommodate even better weather sealing, some of the X-Pro 2 controls and more battery capacity(although a grip might be a nice approach to the battery issue, rather than an inherently larger body). If they did this, I would hope they leave the X-T10 in the line and introduce an intermediate model with the new sensor, but without some of the bells and whistles.

 

The other option would be a camera positioned similarly to the X-T1, rather than above it. It has already been confirmed to have 4K, but I wouldn't expect a fancy codec at X-T1 positioning. Similarly, the viewfinder will probably be very, very good, but still a 2.36 megapixel unit, not the much higher resolution finder from the very expensive Leica. Body size will almost certainly be nearly identical to the X-T1, meaning that the enlarged shutter speed and exposure compensation dials from the X-Pro 2 probably don't both fit, although one or the other might. I hope they manage to include the joystick, but, looking at the back of my X-T1, I'm not completely sure where it would go?

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 I hope they manage to include the joystick, but, looking at the back of my X-T1, I'm not completely sure where it would go?

 

Concerning the joystick, to be honest, there are other methods to maintain the exact same functionality without one.

 

The X-T1 follows an "SLR-type" format. On the Oly E-M1, which also falls in this category, I used to program one of the front face buttons (next to the lens mount) to show AF points, then use front/rear dials to position it. It is a very fast and untuitive method, which also offers double duty to the rotary dials without slaving one or more controls for a specific task.

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Ergonomics are, of course, extremely personal choices, so what one person thinks is a huge handling flaw can be just fine to someone else... I've used cameras with a lot of different methods of AF point selection, and I find the two-dial method about the clumsiest I've seen on modern cameras.

 

My first choice is a dedicated joystick like the X-Pro 2 (and most pro DSLRs). It's very easy to find it when you want it, it's not easy to hit accidentally, and it's both quick and precise for actually moving the focus point (most of them support diagonal movement, which is a big convenience).

 

My second choice is using the d-pad that most cameras have. You lose diagonal movement and have to use an L-shabed "knight's move" (think of how a knight moves in chess) instead; and it's enough easier to hit by accident that it usually has one extra step (hit a button, then move the AF point). Still, it works pretty well with a good d-pad - Olympus has one of the best, Sony's are really mushy and among the worst.

 

My third choice is a touchscreen. My moviemaker friends will immediately say "are you kidding? With the camera on the tripod and the screen tilted up, nothing could be better than a touchscreen". I don't disagree, but a joystick is almost as good in that situation, and it works handheld as well (touchscreens are real pains unless you're on a tripod, preferably with the screen tilted).

 

I find two dials a real pain, although other people like two-dial point selection. There is no natural correlation between the direction you spin the dial and the direction the point moves (vertically - the dial that moves the point horizontally works just fine). The one exception to this is the very rare camera that actually has one dial in a vertical orientation. I've seen it once, but I can't remember where.

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Ergonomics are, of course, extremely personal choices, so what one person thinks is a huge handling flaw can be just fine to someone else... I've used cameras with a lot of different methods of AF point selection, and I find the two-dial method about the clumsiest I've seen on modern cameras.

 

 

Sure, it's certainly a matter of personal taste. I have used the DSLR "joystick" and, at that time, found it intuitive. One advantage the twin-wheel setup has is that you are not moving your thumb and index finger at all; push the button to bring up AF-point selection and use the wheels to position. Since the same wheels are used for exposure settings (e.g. aperture and under/over-exposure) in this paradigm, it becomes more ergonomic. On Fuji cameras, of course, this is hardly the case (having dedicated controls).

 

I have tested the joystick on the X-Pro2 and found it quite intuitive; in fact I bet I could get totally used to it after a couple of days of shooting. What I'm saying is, in context, there is no huge loss if they somehow don't manage to fit it in the X-T2, although it would be great for consistency between bodies (I bet many of us shall have both a X-Pro2 and a X-T2 by the end of this year...).

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Since the same wheels are used for exposure settings (e.g. aperture and under/over-exposure) in this paradigm, it becomes more ergonomic.

 

Not moving your fingers does not make something ergonomic. Common misconception that the smallest amount of necessary movement between functions is the most ergonomically desirable is not quite correct.

 

Ergonomic handling is partly the physical layout of controls, but also the physical distinction of controls for different tasks. There is a reason we have a steering wheel and gas/brake pedals in cars and haven't gone to a single joystick even though that might account for less movement of limbs necessary. Ergonomic controls need to account for intuitive use, and using two wheels for two-dimensional positioning isn't intuitive. 

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First shots on my Pro-2 this morning, and it's a wonderfully handling camera - I immediately like it even better than my X-T1 (itself a beautiful handler), although the EVF is not quite as good. The joystick makes a big difference, and the shutter speed, exposure compensation and control dials are all improved. I even like the dial-in-dial ISO mechanism better than the locked dial on the opposite side of the X-T1. I really don't miss the drive dial, which I knock out of position  frequently on the X-T1 (I use it just enough that I can't always leave it shut off - I'd far rather have a drive mode button in X-Pro 2 style). Build quality is improved from the already very good X-T1 (the most noticeable spots for me are the dials and the SD card door).

 

Who knows if all those improvements will make it to the X-T2? I suspect a couple of them will, but others won't. I'd be surprised to get the big, beautiful shutter speed and exposure compensation dials, because there may not be room on the X-T2's smaller top plate (unless they make the body a bit thicker). Since the tilt screen takes up additional space, I'm not at all sure the joystick will fit, either. On the other hand, there will be some improvements that go only to the X-T2... X-T2 owners WILL get a tilt screen, and I have a strong suspicion it might be a touchscreen if the joystick doesn't make it. I'd be very surprised if some version of the improved card door design doesn't make the transition to the X-T2, and I suspect the front and rear control dials will either make it or even see another improvement. There is, of course, more room for an EVF in an X-T2, so it will certainly have the higher magnification from the X-T1, and possibly a higher resolution or refresh rate as well.

 

One real determinant of how advanced the X-T2 will be is where Fuji decides to position it in their line. With some of the new lenses (especially the long telephotos), it might make sense to have a body above the present position of the X-T1 ($2000?). Such a camera would have a very high frame rate, dual card slots (maybe both UHS-II), and a really high grade EVF similar to the one in the Leica SL. It would probably also have very high grade video - 4K with a high quality codec and high bit rates. It could be a true hybrid camera, similar to an A7rII in that respect, although without the full frame and very high resolution, and with the full Fujinon lens lineup (not a "mostly video" camera like an A7s or GH4).Both the sensor and processor from the X-Pro 2 can actually support a hybrid like that. It might be a slightly larger or heavier body to accommodate even better weather sealing, some of the X-Pro 2 controls and more battery capacity(although a grip might be a nice approach to the battery issue, rather than an inherently larger body). If they did this, I would hope they leave the X-T10 in the line and introduce an intermediate model with the new sensor, but without some of the bells and whistles.

 

The other option would be a camera positioned similarly to the X-T1, rather than above it. It has already been confirmed to have 4K, but I wouldn't expect a fancy codec at X-T1 positioning. Similarly, the viewfinder will probably be very, very good, but still a 2.36 megapixel unit, not the much higher resolution finder from the very expensive Leica. Body size will almost certainly be nearly identical to the X-T1, meaning that the enlarged shutter speed and exposure compensation dials from the X-Pro 2 probably don't both fit, although one or the other might. I hope they manage to include the joystick, but, looking at the back of my X-T1, I'm not completely sure where it would go?

The biggest difference between the X-PRO series the X-T series is the OVF as I understand it. How much is the OVF worth to you on the X-PRO2? Is it a "once I started using" I can't see myself going back to EVF? How often do you use the OVF vs the EVF on the X-PRO 2?

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Even though I have rarely used the OVF in my first few days with the camera (we'll see as I have it for some actual time), I find the handling superior to the X-T1, because a few critical controls are larger or in better places. 

 

1.) Shutter speed and exposure compensation dials are both significantly larger (easier to find and turn with camera to eye) than the already good operation of those dials on the X-T1

2.) AF joystick is an improvement over D-pad AF point selection on X-T1.

3.) I prefer "lift and turn" ISO selection over "push and turn" on the X-T1. Both require moving camera from eye, but the lift and turn is slightly faster for me, and doesn't risk knocking the drive mode - I'm forever accidentally winding up in bracket and other odd modes while trying to change ISO on X-T1. This is especially annoying because some of those modes disable raw shooting.

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I just got my X-Pro2 yesterday. It's an incredible camera. Here's what I like about it, compared to my X-T1:

  • Joystick. Not only for easier AF point selection, but because it frees up the 4 buttons on the D-pad I assigned to select AF points on the X-T1. This allows me to quickly select drive mode, film simulation, AF area, and Auto ISO setting (by default, the "right" D-pad button is mapped to white balance, but I changed it).
  • Speed. This camera finally feels on par with DSLR performance. Everything is super snappy. With the 35/2 mounted I have absolutely no complaints about AF speed, and it is more accurate than my 5DIII was. The EVF is smaller, but refresh is incredible.¬†
  • 3 Auto ISO settings. This is a game changer for me, and it was something I really missed from my 5DIII when I first switched to the X-T1. I have three settings for various subject types that I can easily access now.¬†
  • Slightly larger size. It just feels more solid than the X-T1, which I like.¬†
  • Dual SD card slot. This allows me to shoot Acros JPG on one card, and RAW on the other. So much better for my workflow.
  • Acros. It's everything everyone else has said it is.¬†

Now I just need to figure out whether it makes sense for me to keep it, or wait for the X-T2. I do like the tilt screen on my X-T1, and I've come to love EVFs (which I never thought would happen), so I'm not sure that having an OVF really matters to me. It's an impossible decision to make now, since we don't know how the X-Pro2 and X-T2 will differ. Given that the X-T1 is still a great camera, it would probably be wise to return the X-Pro2 and wait to see how the X-T2 will differ before making a decision. But that will be hard to do!

 

Here's a quick snap with Acros from yesterday:

 

cdk_20160309__DSF0030%207.31.04%20PM.jpg

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Hi,

 

Used to own a x100s in 2013 but sold it and got back to DSLRs again and now I'm looking to go back again to Fujifilm

Recently sold all my canon gear and am now waiting for the X-T2, but the X-PRO 2 is available basically now and looks very attractive so I'm a bit torn.

 

Here's what I care about and not care about

 

I care about 

*Tilt screen. The X-T series has it. I really enjoyed it on my Canon 70D that I recently sold. Great for landscapes or weird angles.

*A good EVF. Both have it. the X-T1 has a bigger one but the X-PRO 2 has a "faster one" with higher refresh rate.

*Ergonomics. I felt both on the X-T1 and the X-PRO 1 and the first impression was that the X-T1 feels more comfortable because of the bigger grip.

*Discretion. I always bring my camera with me on travels and enjoy doing a bit of street photography, and therefor it's important to me that the camera isn't bringing a lot of attention. Both cameras are pretty small but my impression is that the X-PRO 2 with it's rangerfinder style body is more discrete than the DSLR style of the X-T series.

 

I don't care about

*4K video which I recently learned the X-T2 will have. Don't care about video much at all to be honest.

*OVF. When I had my X100s I only used the EVF. This is one of the biggest differences between the X-T series and the X-Pro series. I guess it makes no sense getting the XPRO 2 if you don't care about OVF?

Or maybe I should care about the OVF? Please enlighten me :)

*ISO dial (I usually put my cam on AUTO ISO anyway (mininum shutter 1/125 or 1/60 depening on the lens and situation).

 

 

Does it make more sense to wait for the X-T2 in my case?

X-T2 seems most likely worthy next purchase that will fit more of your needs than the X-Pro2 will.. but, how long is the wait?... supposedly sometime later this year.. who knows? Fuji changes dates all the time.. like the X-Pro2.. nearly extended 2 months later than expected.

 

The X-T2 (if it's same size as X-T1) is actually smaller than the X-Pro2.. and if you don't load it with battery grip and a fat lens, it can be very small and discreet.. it should also have electronic shutter for near silent shooting as well (which the X-Pro2 has, as well).

 

The X-T2 ticks off more boxes you care about than the ones you don't.

 

I'm partial to the X-Pro2 personally, but I'll admit the X-T2 should have better EVF, Ergonomics & Tilt Screen... both are (or will be) discreet enough.

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Ok, I'm starting to change my mind now and getting more and more keen on the x-pro 2.
 
I can see the advantage of the OVF vs the EVF, especially for taking shots of my 3 year old running around with advantage of being able to anticapte where he is going to be next in the frame and no lagg.
I suppose the OVF is more suited for that type of shooting, am I right?
 
Also, I like the rangerfinder style, it feels like you (and from what I read) that you get a bit closer to the people you shoot. And it feels more discret than a X-T1/2.
 
I would really enjoy the flipout screen on the X-T2 though.
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I suppose the OVF is more suited for that type of shooting, am I right?

 

There will be people  saying yes and there will be people saying no to this. That's just the way different people perceive different technology. The rest is really just make-believe.

Edited by cug
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Hi,

 

Used to own a x100s in 2013 but sold it and got back to DSLRs again and now I'm looking to go back again to Fujifilm

Recently sold all my canon gear and am now waiting for the X-T2, but the X-PRO 2 is available basically now and looks very attractive so I'm a bit torn.

 

Here's what I care about and not care about

 

I care about 

*Tilt screen. The X-T series has it. I really enjoyed it on my Canon 70D that I recently sold. Great for landscapes or weird angles.

*A good EVF. Both have it. the X-T1 has a bigger one but the X-PRO 2 has a "faster one" with higher refresh rate.

*Ergonomics. I felt both on the X-T1 and the X-PRO 1 and the first impression was that the X-T1 feels more comfortable because of the bigger grip.

*Discretion. I always bring my camera with me on travels and enjoy doing a bit of street photography, and therefor it's important to me that the camera isn't bringing a lot of attention. Both cameras are pretty small but my impression is that the X-PRO 2 with it's rangerfinder style body is more discrete than the DSLR style of the X-T series.

 

I don't care about

*4K video which I recently learned the X-T2 will have. Don't care about video much at all to be honest.

*OVF. When I had my X100s I only used the EVF. This is one of the biggest differences between the X-T series and the X-Pro series. I guess it makes no sense getting the XPRO 2 if you don't care about OVF?

Or maybe I should care about the OVF? Please enlighten me :)

*ISO dial (I usually put my cam on AUTO ISO anyway (mininum shutter 1/125 or 1/60 depening on the lens and situation).

 

 

Does it make more sense to wait for the X-T2 in my case?

And you need help with your decision......why?

Based on your criteria the only reason for you to get an X-P2 is impatience. Not a good reason to drop $1700 IMO. :-)

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