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Hi everyone, I just wasted three hours of explaining my idea and at the moment of posting my pc magicly shut down <_< so in short...

Fuji could incorporate 42mm, 50mm and let's say 65mm crop modes (framelines for OVF and EVF < like Leica did with the Q) without the need of using the TCL. I know this would kill/lower the sells of the TCL but would also make the X100S/T (especially considering it's size without the conversion lenses) more versatile for some 42mm, 50mm FL lovers and portrait (street) shooters who love the form factor of the X100 series. We would loose some of those megapixels (resulting in aprox. 14MP,12MP, 9MP) but for general use I don't see that as a huge problem, as long as you don't intend to print huge. I am aware that you can switch to TCL mode, but you're limited to shooting in OVF, and you have to crop the image and correct back the already corrected distortion in PP which is also not intended), also no correct image preview after shooting in that mode, EVF not usefull. They could even make two modes for the EVF, one with the framelines as if you were looking through the OVF + no paralax correction needed, and one with the 100% coverage for all FLs). Even with the EVF the camera would read 100% of sensor surface and display it on EVF/LCD and only take the crop portion of the image (or take one full image as a backup > RAW(full)+JPEG(cropped)? or using the ''Save original image'' option set to ON?). The change of what is saved and what not could be set in the Q menu also, and the change of framelines assigned to one of the custom fn buttons, as it's now possible for the conversion lenses. What do you think? Possible?...sure it is. Pretty please Fuji? ^_^

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Well as I read today here, Fuji has made it happen on the X70 and it does NOT only crop the image, but it goes through some algorithms that preserves detail and stays same size - 16mp (much like what Sony did with it's Digital Clear Image Zoom, but it didn't retain the mp count I think, but only used some math to make the cropped image ''sharper'', more clear, and detailed than it's ''crop later twin''). And some of us just hate postprocessing except for serious work, and love exact framing (that's why one buys this camera, to enjoy framing right? ;D)
​At least Fuji should make it happen on the X100S/T too, as the processor&sensor combo is the same, and people who wouldn't like this function, they could also just ignore it. :)

Cheers!

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Well as I read today here, Fuji has made it happen on the X70 and it does NOT only crop the image, but it goes through some algorithms that preserves detail and stays same size - 16mp [...]

 

It is still a digital zoom, the sensor can not just create non existing data out of nowhere. It might be sharper than just a crop but it still the same thing.

 

I call a cat, a cat and I have a hard time to buy into their marketing talk of selling us a digital cropping camera.

 

Now if by some mean of unknown witchcraft they are able to crop a good chunk of the image out and still retain the same 16MP count they basically have created one of the most impressive sensor ever made on this planet and I don't understand why they wouldn't be using it in all their camera.

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They claim their X-TRANS CMOS II is capable of 24 mp Bayer equivalent resolution (also the new 24mp III sensor is capable of 36mp) but it's then stored as 16mp, so lower sized files with more detail. Yeah, pretty impressive sensor, and many are bashing it for it's ''only 16mp''. I also did a test between A7II and X-Pro1 adapted Minolta lenses, and guess what...X-Pro1 files seemed clear and much more detailed and sharp than Sony's (scaled down to 16mp or not), which were always a tad soft. Why not crop? Like it's become forbidden or some kind of a sin...  :D What if I'm cool with 42mm at 14mp and 50mm at 12mp?. It makes a lot of sense, since the framelines at 50mm are very much usable if not ''made for'' 0.5x mag. viewfinder of the X100 series (especially if you wear glasses). If you ask me, it's even more suitable/usable than using X-Pro1's 0.6x mag. that barely fits the 42mm into it (so the out of frame area becomes ''invisible'', so is with the 50mm. Shooting those to focal lengths at 0.39x mag feels somehow dissconected, as the frame is kind of small. On the x100t the size of 50mm framelines's surface/area fells just perfect in comparison to it's out-of-frame area). About croping... look... some people just prefer some focal lengths over the other, or like to use two focal lengths for let's say documentary or portraits, and using only one camera body and not needing to switch between TCL and no TCL is a BIG bonus if you ask me, even the 49mm screw thread would like the idea, because it would not suffer being used as much as it is now.

I'm sure if Fuji did incorporate this feature in the X70, which is also a cheaper model and uses the same sensor/processor combination, we could also see the ''Digital Teleconverter'' feature in X100S/T cameras aswell. For many the ''crop it in post dude'' is just not the same as having a shooting experience with the exact focal length framelines. Wouldn't it be awesome to see the out of frame area and framelines in the EVF too? That would be amazing!!! I'm not trying to compare the X100T with a Leica Q, but if you look at that Leica's in camera teleconversion (digital zoom) you see that the equivalent zoomed in options for it's fixed 28mm lens are ​24/15/8 MP and many shooters are using those two lower mp modes, as it makes that camera a whole lot more versatile.

​Have a good one!

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They claim their X-TRANS CMOS II is capable of 24 mp Bayer equivalent resolution (also the new 24mp III sensor is capable of 36mp) but it's then stored as 16mp, so lower sized files with more detail.

Bayer resolution is not optimal.  24 mp Bayer is far from "perfect" 24mp.  16mp X-TRANS is closer to "perfect" 16mp, so can compete with 24mp Bayer.

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They claim their X-TRANS CMOS II is capable of 24 mp Bayer equivalent resolution (also the new 24mp III sensor is capable of 36mp) but it's then stored as 16mp, so lower sized files with more detail.

 

Oh my. That happens when people who have no clue what they are talking about technically take a statement of context and interpret it. "Digital zoom" will always be "take central pixel area, scale up" whether that is with better algorithms or not, it can't produce details that weren't there before. So, whether you crop later and use a good upscaling algorithm back to 16MP or whether you do the "digital zoom" in the X70, the results are still less detail than you'd get with a 35mm lens lighting the same sensor from the same distance. 

 

You can't get around physics.

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Well, it’s an idea. One like many others.

 

Some would like it and some will hate it. 

 

there are people out there who will like a square sensor (which naturally makes the best use of the image circle of a lens) ultrawide, always sharp even as a lytro, and then you crop and crop until you get what you want.

 

This idea might have merits, just not for me. 

 

I suspect that the base and stronghold of the Fuji users is represented by more elderly photographers ( at least judging by the personal pics which many here use as their avatar) and those, in my opinion,  would not be, generally, too interested.

 

The younger Fuji users on the contrary might take to this concept.

 

 

Who knows? It might work.

Personally, I like cameras with interchangeable lenses and use zooms if I need that kind of versatility.

 

Like is a Supermarket, we are all in it and chose different products.

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  • 4 weeks later...

- The resolution equivalence of 16MP Xtrans with 24MP Bayer really means that both have smaller that 16MP effective resolution (through unsharpness, think "smearing") and that the Bayer sensor is worse and that both end up at an effective resolution of, say, 12MP (I made that last number up, so don't quote me on it). There's only 12MP of information in there, the rest is redundant.

- You can't create information out of thin air. If you take the effective 6MP at the center and blow them up to 16MP, you still have only 6MP worth of information. The rest is various degrees of interpolation (smudge).

- The way Fuji interpolates the 6MP of information up to 12MP may be psychologically pleasing and nice to look at but at the end of the day it only creates the illusion of high resolution, in other words, it beautiful smudge but it's still smudge.

 

Some background:

- Both Xtrans and Bayer sensor types have only pixels that record either red, green, or blue. The other values on that pixel have to be interpolated using clever algorithms that exploit the weaknesses of the human eye (hence the transformation to luminosity vs color, as the eye is more sensitive to variations of the former than the latter).

- The human eye is more sensitive in the green part of the spectrum (bang in the center of the visible spectrum, due to the solar spectrum that reaches Earth's surface), and Xtrans has more green pixels than Bayer, so that improves resolution.

- Xtrans allows some clever interpolation schemes due to its arrangement of RGB and the prominence of green pixels that give very good luminosity information but it's still intrinsically less than 16MP since it's only ever one out of the three red, green, or blue values and the rest are interpolated. (Unlike foveon sensors that have RGB in every pixel but they have their own problems because the light has to go through the sensor, leading to a physical loss of intensity).

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