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FUJI X-PRO2 MENU PROBLEM


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This annoys me as well. I'd love to be able to set the view mode independent for menu (even Q menu) and shooting. 

 

On the X-E1 that was never a problem as the View Mode button was nicely accessible, I think the same will be true for the X-Pro2. For the X-T1 the View Mode button is in a totally stupid location and hard to press. The X-E2 doesn't have a View Mode button, but at least you can program one of the Fn buttons to it. The X100T has a View Mode button again. 

 

I got really used to using the View Mode button for exactly this purpose. I learned the sequence of settings and am now pretty fast going back and forth between "EVF with Eye Sensor" and "LCD Only". The only camera where I really dislike it is the X-T1 due to the impractical location of the View Mode button.

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[...]

I have never taken a shot using the LCD as a viewfinder. I have spent 40 years using a viewfinder, and like others of my age, I just don't want to change.... and why should I, when it all worked great until recently ;)

[...]

 

I mean absolute no disrespect., but is there any specific reasons why you are staying with Fuji ? 

 

I mean, if I had as much issues as you have with my tools on paid assignment, I would have changed system already toward something that suits my working needs. Part of the reasons I have Fuji for hobby time and Nikon for the rest.

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I mean absolute no disrespect., but is there any specific reasons why you are staying with Fuji ? 

 

I mean, if I had as much issues as you have with my tools on paid assignment, I would have changed system already toward something that suits my working needs. Part of the reasons I have Fuji for hobby time and Nikon for the rest.

Hi darknj,

 

I'm sticking with the X100S.  It has no problems.  The X100T has been mothballed until such a time as Fuji sees sense and corrects its firmware.

 

The X-Pro1 is also still fantastic, and gets great use.

 

I don't have a personal problem with the XP2, as it hasn't even been released for sale yet.  Maybe Fuji will read my comments, and those of many others in the Internet who are complaining about the same, single issue.  I have also written to Fuji in Japan asking them to reconsider their "improvements", but have never received a reply.  Fuji aren't famous for replying.

 

I bought the X100T on trust gained over five years of fantastic Fuji use.  I was disappointed.  A lot of people are disappointed about the change in menu viewing.  The recent change, for some photographers, is sufficient to render the camera unfit for use for their style of photography.

 

As an analogy, when governments create new laws that clearly go against the will of the people, the people protest and make their feelings known.  Often the governments will listen and adjust what they have done in order to be more acceptable to their voters.  To just accept changes that are not good is called apathy.  This process also applies to the retail sector.  We do not work for Fuji.  Fuji works for us.  If Fuji, like a government, does things that are wrong, people will stop supporting it.

 

I use Fuji cameras.  My last major exhibition was clearly publicised as an exhibition of images taken on Fuji cameras, as are all my exhibitions.  That exhibition in Milan saw over ONE MILLION visitors, all of whom were informed that the images were all taken on Fuji cameras.  I believe in Fuji.  I like Fuji, but if Fuji get something wrong I will tell them, so they can reconsider and get back on the right track.

 

Sadly, there are a lot of apathetic people around who just blindly accept changes, whether good or bad, and whose answer is simply if you don't like it, go elsewhere.  That is negative, apathetic and not conducive to improvement.

 

I have been a journalist for over 40 years.  I expose issues in the public interest.  It's what I do.

 

95% of what Fuji are doing is fantastic.  4% is not so good, and 1% is bad.  That's better than most producers :)

 

On behalf of those who blindly believe that everything Fuji do is perfect, and that to criticise it in any way is nothing short of blasphemy, I will voice my thoughts as widely as possible, hoping that those thoughts will help Fuji to avoid the 1% that some people would rather quietly ignore, and suffer in silence.

 

Fuji is fantastic, but sometimes it needs to be shouted at a bit..... as has been mentioned by others in this thread, if you speak quietly Fuji doesn't always listen :)

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Actually I like the menu in the EVF. But I guess I'm in the minority?

 

 

I like it, too. I mean, it's mandatory, anyway. If you set the camera to Viewfinder ONLY, everything MUST appear in the viewfinder and nothing can appear on the LCD. I know several people complained about the LCD going on when they pressed the menu button, and it's also bad for folks who need reading glasses but shoot w/o them with the viewfinder: they couldn't see the menu on the LCD very well. They'd have to locate and put on their glasses first. Or they'd have to switch from OVF to EVF, then press the menu button, change the desired menu setting, then switch back to the OVF. Pretty inconvenient, especially for quick Fn-button-induced settings changes like changing the DR. These things need to happen fast. Most affected users probably didn't even know that the EVF behavior was different from the OVF behavior. Very inconsistent. So this bug (or user interface inconsistency) was fixed in the X100T and X-Pro2. 

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Eye sensor mode is not immediate enough, there's a lag while one shuts down and the other opens..... even half a second is too much lag for me, I lose shots.

 

Seems to me that it must take you at least half second to pull your eye away from the viewfinder, move the camera to where you see the rear screen, focus your eyes on it. 

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Seems to me that it must take you at least half second to pull your eye away from the viewfinder, move the camera to where you see the rear screen, focus your eyes on it. 

No, the lag starts when you put your eye to the viewfinder, it doesn't wake up instantly, there is a lag, especially if you wear glasses, and sometimes, with glasses, you have to move your face around to get the sensor to notice.... the sensor doesn't work well through glass.

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I like it, too. I mean, it's mandatory, anyway. If you set the camera to Viewfinder ONLY, everything MUST appear in the viewfinder and nothing can appear on the LCD. I know several people complained about the LCD going on when they pressed the menu button, and it's also bad for folks who need reading glasses but shoot w/o them with the viewfinder: they couldn't see the menu on the LCD very well. They'd have to locate and put on their glasses first. Or they'd have to switch from OVF to EVF, then press the menu button, change the desired menu setting, then switch back to the OVF. Pretty inconvenient, especially for quick Fn-button-induced settings changes like changing the DR. These things need to happen fast. Most affected users probably didn't even know that the EVF behavior was different from the OVF behavior. Very inconsistent. So this bug (or user interface inconsistency) was fixed in the X100T and X-Pro2. 

Viewfinder only, with everything in the viewfinder, was already available pre X100T, using EVF. 

 

If what you state above were true, then why, with the X100T in viewfinder only mode, does playback of the images occur only on the LCD, when everything else is in the viewfinder?  That is inconsistent with the above reasoning.

 

There are many users who do not want to use EVF under any circumstances, and who buy these cameras for the excellent OVF.

 

It would have been nice had Fuji simply offered another option, instead of taking one away.

 

In ALL other makes of OVF only camera, the viewfinder is used for taking the photograph, and the LCD is used for the menu.  This has been the case for around 15 years since digital SLRs came out.  Many offer a menu in viewfinder option, but the default is optical viewfinder for taking the photographs, and LCD for viewing the menu.

 

Fuji's eye sensor does not work well with people who wear glasses.  It's not instant even for those who don't.

 

Fuji's EVF is a nightmare for people wearing glasses if you have to view the menu through the viewfinder.

 

It worked before, but now Fuji have changed something that worked well for those migrating from other makes, and for the very large percentage of the population who wear glasses.

 

I can not produce the sort of photos I usually produce with the X100T.  It is not workable.  I have had to revert to the X100S. 

 

Surely Fuji should simply have added another option?

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1.

If what you state above were true, then why, with the X100T in viewfinder only mode, does playback of the images occur only on the LCD, when everything else is in the viewfinder?  That is inconsistent with the above reasoning.

 

 

 

 

2.

Fuji's eye sensor does not work well with people who wear glasses.  It's not instant even for those who don't.

 

Fuji's EVF is a nightmare for people wearing glasses if you have to view the menu through the viewfinder.

 

 

 

 

 

1.

Simply not true. Your's must have been faulty, or you don't know what you're doing.

 

2.

I wear glasses. The eye sensor works perfectly, always. Absolutely no problems with the EVF either.

 

I have stated elsewhere that when new, there was a little lag with the eye sensor. I cleaned the sensor and it worked lightning fast, it still does, even wearing my glasses.

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1.

Simply not true. Your's must have been faulty, or you don't know what you're doing.

 

2.

I wear glasses. The eye sensor works perfectly, always. Absolutely no problems with the EVF either.

 

I have stated elsewhere that when new, there was a little lag with the eye sensor. I cleaned the sensor and it worked lightning fast, it still does, even wearing my glasses.

As far as what Paul said for 1, he is correct. I just confirmed with my X100T sitting next to me. In EVF Only mode, whether in OVF or EVF, the menu appears in the viewfinder but the image playback is on the rear LCD. My X-T1 performs this way as well. My X-E2, however, plays the image back in the EVF. Edit: You can set the X100T and X-T1 to playback the image in the EVF, why can't we do this for menus?

 

For 2, I've seen this as hit and miss. I think it depends on the shape/size of the glasses. There is a slight delay when it turns the EVF on regardless of whether you where glasses or not that bothers me enough I always leave the EVF on.

 

So there is an inconsistency in the way EVF Only works. I don't see why they couldn't let you choose the view mode for shooting, menu, and playback individually. That would allow everyone to setup the camera for their preference.

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No, the lag starts when you put your eye to the viewfinder, it doesn't wake up instantly, there is a lag, especially if you wear glasses, and sometimes, with glasses, you have to move your face around to get the sensor to notice.... the sensor doesn't work well through glass.

 

Sounds like it works the way my old XE1 (and some others) work, right? I never found that "lag" to be an issue in my street and similar photography.

 

While this might be better or different, it appears to me that perhaps you are obsessing just a bit?

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From a little more playing with the X100T, it appears they made the menus follow your View Mode preference for the mode you are in. If I am in EVF/OVF Only for shooting and LCD for playback, the shooting menus appear in the EVF but when in playback, the playback menus show on the LCD. I can see how that would be difficult to do something user friendly with if we started moving the menus around too. someone would eventually set playback to LCD and menus to EVF and be confused as to where the menu went and think the camera is broken. As much as I would like to use the EVF for shooting and the LCD for menus, I can see the reasoning for the direction they chose and it makes more sense now.

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As far as what Paul said for 1, he is correct. 

No. Well only if he has his menus set up wrong.

My playback shows in the EVF. (Camera in my hands now).

 

As gdanmitchel says above, Paul is obsessing over nothing and quite frankly, I don't believe that Paul understands the camera fully and has it badly set up for his needs. I would be surprised if he's even read the manual.

 

 

edit.

Even in OVF mode, I take the shot and the review shows as EVF then returns to OVF.

If in OVF mode I press the review button it shows as EVF and returns to OVF with a half touch of the shutter button (or a second press of the review button.

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I wouldn't say that he has his camera setup wrong and I completely see his point, but I also see why Fuji did what they did. If you come from shooting a DSLR, you would access the camera menu and review your images on the rear LCD; obviously there is no EVF. I believe this is also the way my first X series worked when I bought it as well. This change, while has some benefits, does feel awkward if you're not used to it. I find the menu easier to see and navigate on the rear LCD and it is easier to push the d-pad when the camera isn't pushed up against your face. Advantages of EVF menu are being able to access the shooting menu without taking the camera away from your eye and not having to turn the LCD on in places where it would be distracting. I think that you and Paul have very different shooting styles and this change works better for you and not as well for him. At least the change has been consistent across the lineup and within time, I think we will all get used to it. 

 

I don't use instant review. I don't need to look at the image after I have taken it. I am certainly glad they gave us the ability to keep that off, especially if it shows in the EVF. When I am reviewing images, i prefer to do so on the LCD screen on the back. It is also more convenient for showing the images to another person.

 

I am curious to see if they allow EFV shooting and LCD review on the X-E2 with firmware 4 since that camera does not have a view mode button. This seems to be the only inconsistency left. 

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Regarding glasses: If I wear my Silhouette glasses, the X100T EVF/OVF is total crap compared to X-T1. If I wear more standard wire rim glasses, the X100T is just bearable. Still tiny, distorted and that gimmick picture in picture thingie is totally useless for me. I'm now impatiently waiting for the X-T2. 

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Hi darknj,

 

I'm sticking with the X100S. It has no problems. The X100T has been mothballed until such a time as Fuji sees sense and corrects its firmware.

 

The X-Pro1 is also still fantastic, and gets great use.

 

I don't have a personal problem with the XP2, as it hasn't even been released for sale yet. Maybe Fuji will read my comments, and those of many others in the Internet who are complaining about the same, single issue. I have also written to Fuji in Japan asking them to reconsider their "improvements", but have never received a reply. Fuji aren't famous for replying.

 

I bought the X100T on trust gained over five years of fantastic Fuji use. I was disappointed. A lot of people are disappointed about the change in menu viewing. The recent change, for some photographers, is sufficient to render the camera unfit for use for their style of photography.

 

As an analogy, when governments create new laws that clearly go against the will of the people, the people protest and make their feelings known. Often the governments will listen and adjust what they have done in order to be more acceptable to their voters. To just accept changes that are not good is called apathy. This process also applies to the retail sector. We do not work for Fuji. Fuji works for us. If Fuji, like a government, does things that are wrong, people will stop supporting it.

 

I use Fuji cameras. My last major exhibition was clearly publicised as an exhibition of images taken on Fuji cameras, as are all my exhibitions. That exhibition in Milan saw over ONE MILLION visitors, all of whom were informed that the images were all taken on Fuji cameras. I believe in Fuji. I like Fuji, but if Fuji get something wrong I will tell them, so they can reconsider and get back on the right track.

 

Sadly, there are a lot of apathetic people around who just blindly accept changes, whether good or bad, and whose answer is simply if you don't like it, go elsewhere. That is negative, apathetic and not conducive to improvement.

 

I have been a journalist for over 40 years. I expose issues in the public interest. It's what I do.

 

95% of what Fuji are doing is fantastic. 4% is not so good, and 1% is bad. That's better than most producers :)

 

On behalf of those who blindly believe that everything Fuji do is perfect, and that to criticise it in any way is nothing short of blasphemy, I will voice my thoughts as widely as possible, hoping that those thoughts will help Fuji to avoid the 1% that some people would rather quietly ignore, and suffer in silence.

 

Fuji is fantastic, but sometimes it needs to be shouted at a bit..... as has been mentioned by others in this thread, if you speak quietly Fuji doesn't always listen :)

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What's wrong with the 100T ?

I'm just coming to the end of a 3 week trip to Cuba

Shooting for my gallery sales so results are critical

I've been using 2 XT1. and an 100T

All have performed faultlessly as they always have

I sell many pictures using this system and love it

I came from a background of Leica and Nikon and will never go back

I'm sat in the hotel reading all this and have to conclude some people may be better getting out their and using the cameras instead of trying to pull them apart when a little niggle annoys them

I've pre ordered 2 Xpro 2's and I'm sure there will be many saying oh I don't like this or that or why did they put that button there !

But I wouldn't mind a bet that I will be shooting consistent results with it from day one

Just go and shoot guys that's what you bought them for isn't it ?

Ps

Forgive me for not posting Cuba pics yet but Internet here is rather challenging :)

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Just as a side note

I've now read what is considered a fault with the X100T

Firstly why would u push the menu button when your eye is to viewfinder in OVF

and if you do just touch the shutter release and it's all fine

im still happy and if XP2 has same "fault" I won't mind at all

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Just as a side note

I've now read what is considered a fault with the X100T

Firstly why would u push the menu button when your eye is to viewfinder in OVF

and if you do just touch the shutter release and it's all fine

im still happy and if XP2 has same "fault" I won't mind at all

Hi Alf,

 

I don't use the menu button when my eye is to the viewfinder in OVF.  I don't want to see the menu in the viewfinder.

 

If I do press the menu button in OVF mode, I am FORCED to put my eye to the viewfinder to see it, because it doesn't display the menu on the LCD like the S did, and like the XP1 did, and like Canon, Nikon, and all other cameras do.

 

That is the problem with the X100T, the default menu view in OVF mode is in the VIEWFINDER ONLY, not on the LCD like it used to be.  Reviewing images while in OVF mode, however, remains on the LCD.

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Ahh

I see what you mean now

Before you mentioned it I never considered it so I guess I don't find it an issue

Having said all of that I rarely bother with the menus anyway once camera is set up

Maybe don't let a small thing stop you using the camera ?

Seems a shame not to use it :)

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I must admit confusion, as I don't own the X100T.  There was a comment made earlier about the XT-1 exhibiting the same behavior.  As I am thinking about adding the XPro2 to the XT1 that I do own, could I get clarity on the issue?  On the XT-1, the camera has four view modes, all of which show both the image and the menu in a logical, consistent way.  Similarly, for the X100S, it has three view modes, and they all work the same way - image and menu show up consistently in the chosen view mode.  How is the X100s and the XPro2 different?

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Just to add to the confusion, on the X100s, if I am using OVF and eye sensor is on, the menu shows on either the LCD or EVF, depending upon how I am holding the camera. That seems logical.  Is that the behavior that has been changed in the X100T and the XPRO2?

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rhwolf,

 

the X100T and the X-Pro2 have been changed.

 

Without eye sensor, if you use OVF and press the menu button the menu will ONLY appear in the viewfinder, not on the LCD.  Replay of images, however, will appear on the LCD.

 

If you wear glasses and use the eye sensor, it can be hard work to get the eye sensor to work.

 

If you wear glasses, navigating the menu in the viewfinder is difficult.

 

You can move the menu to the LCD by pressing the view mode button.  If, however, a photo opportunity arises at that point, the viewfinder no longer works, so if you suddenly raise the camera to your eye you will see nothing, and so you will miss the shot.  To revert to viewfinder, you then have to press the view mode button three more times.

 

I bought the X100T and effectively abandoned it within a day.  It is not suitable for me for street photography.  I have reverted to the X100S and the X-Pro1, and find both are better than the X100T.  I still try it from time to time, but find I cannot work properly with the change.

 

The X100T would be better than the others if they hadn't screwed around with the menu and view mode.

 

I hope this is clear enough for you.

 

If you like the way the X100S works, then you may want to try out one of the new ones for a day or two before possibly wasting your money.  You may like the change, but you may not, especially if you wear glasses.

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Paul, I thought it was worth mentioning I recently purchased a Panasonic LX100 (mostly for video, but also as a light travel camera) and the menus work the same way. In EVF only, the menus and playback are both in the EVF. It appears this is a cross-brand adoption and we will have to adapt. I'm getting more used to it, but still prefer the old way.

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