New owner of X100T - advice on photographing bars and clubs at night

[SeanoX100T]

Hi all,

 

As the recent owner of a new X100t, and as someone still working their way through the full online manual, I would like some advice on the best settings for using my camera in a bar or club.

 

This is for a potential commission, so it is important to have people posing, and to get some clear photos of the atmosphere and the venue.

 

They could be used in a newspaper so the pictures need to be clear, sharp, and colourful. I have a cheap, exterior flash, but I am apprehensive about using it given the excellent low lighting performance of this camera. What settings would I use? There are a number of built-in filters for softening skin tones too.

 

I would appreciate any expert advice.

 

Many thanks!

[jp_stone]

Hey Sean, I am new to the forum as well,           but not new to Fuji, and not new to photography.

 

Just a thought, if you can get permission to use a modest size tripod, and can stay near enough to keep it from getting knocked over, consider setting up in full manual, set your focus manually and "range it" and leave it alone. Put the camera on "bulb", and use a remote. You will come home with a collection of "blurry" shots of people moving, and get some lucky shots of static objects, and some people that were standing still.  Experiment with "time" and a remote, and don't feel you have to shoot wide open all the time either.

 

Everyone wants to "stop" motion.... hell I want it to "move".

 

Most of my glass set at F18 !

 

Not sure, but I think the X100t will take an electronic remote.  I have a cheap wireless transmitter-receiver rig I love.  I did not care for the "retro mechanical cable experience", and went from An Xpro-1 where I had no choice, to an EX-1 where I can use modern remotes. I do not use flash or strobes for anything, just me. My socks never match either.

 

 

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[milandro]

Unless you are using a number of strobes all over the place (a difficult technique involving the use of many slave flashes positioned in various key points  but not immediately recognizable as such creating the appearance of the place being lit with the customary artificial light) I wouldn’t even consider adding any artificial light to shots like these in a night club and I would rely  on the excellent performance of the X cameras with high ISO settings.

 

Of course you will need to shoot with the camera on a tripod.

 

There is a very good chance that even with the ISO set to the maximum value which still gives you a decent image without tons of noise, you will have people showing as motion blurred images, but, as Parkerstone suggests, this might actually add something to the image and even take care of the fact that nobody can just take pictures of people and use them for commercial purposes without their express permission ( news events are a different thing, you are talking of shooting for a catalogue or an ad, different situation) and so the skin tones would be the last of your concerns.

 

Should the scene be sufficiently lit, then chances are that the skin tones will be softened by noise and if you are shooting jpeg Fuji has been criticized exactly for “ waxing” skin at high ISO settings!

 

But I have to say that the last camera that I would ever consider using for a “ job” like this would be a camera with a fixed lens and only limited capability to be adapted to a wide-angle by means of an added optical device.

 

In my opinion you need a camera with interchangeable lenses and you need a lens like the excellent 16mm to deal with the situation.

 

Go to the place when there is nobody, maybe in the morning, and take some shots to see what the situation will be like. My hunch is that you will realize that the amount of light is really not a lot to not have motion blurred people and that the lens on your camera is not wide enough.

 

Good luck!

[SeanoX100T]

Thanks chaps!

 

This brief is for commercial and not artistic ones, so it is a case of tapping drinks/revellers on the shoulders and asking them to pose. Setting up a tripod near a bar or on the edge of the dance floor on a Saturday night is simply not practical and won't win me points from the client. However, I do intend to take some perspective photos of the bar.

 

On other forums, some photographers support that use of TTL flash, whilst others suggest using a high ISO. I do believe that this camera could be perfect for nightclubs and bars because I will be getting in close to people. Some examples I have seen on dpreview from the X100 have been superb.

 

I only have an hour at the venue so I want to go in fairly well prepared. I tested my flash inside my house with the minimal of light, and the photos were very impressive, so I think this camera can work wonders.

 

Perhaps F2 aperture, 6400 ISO, and burst setting will work?

 

Appreciate your thoughts again!

[milandro]

Exactly because you intend to use the customer’ s image for  commercial purposes and not informational or artistic purposes, I am afraid that things are way more complicated than tapping them on the shoulder and ask anyone to pose, the commercial intended purpose of your assignment certainly requires them to sign a model release form. If you don’t do this you might live to regret it if someone, even much later than the event, decides to take you to court. It is way better to also include some form of compensation ( e.g. drinks voucher mentioned in the release form) because in this way you can actually say that there has been an agreement to compensate the model.

 

Read about these things before doing anything that can take you to court.

 

 http://www.pcblawfirm.com/articles/legal-issues-photographing-people/

http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/releases/when/

http://www.pdnonline.com/features/What-Photographers-N-10515.shtml

 

As for the technical side of things.

 

In my opinion, using one flash will not render an image that is anywhere close to the atmosphere in the bar. A dimly lit bar has to stay dimly lit.

 

If you want to convince yourself of this, again, I strongly advise you to go to the place when nobody is there, ask the manager to switch on the normal lights and take some shots with the flash. These pictures might be of some use anyway ( see examples on google images mentioned later on ...)

 

Depending on the circumstances you might be able to blend the strobe light with the artificial and or natural light but my guess, since you described this as a dim lit bar, is that you will be disappointed by the use of strobes.

 

Again, in my opinion this is not the camera that I would use for this purpose and I don’t understand your : “ ... I do believe that this camera could be perfect for nightclubs and bars because I will be getting in close to people...” .

 

What does the X100T “ close to people” that other cameras don’t do equally or better I don’t know.  But the “ problem " is that the angle featured by the lens on this camera (35mm equivalent), even with the adapter (28mm equivalent), will be too narrow to render the space properly.

 

It will be fine to photograph people but I understood that the bar was the subject and the people were only there as “ extras” .

 

If this is the purpose, you will need an aperture greater than f2 to have enough depth of field.

 

Nothing else than a visit, prior to the real shooting, will tell you what you need to know about shooting this place and how it shows in the pictuures and what is the aperture required for the proper sharp representation of the important details in the foreground and background.

 

In other words, you might use an open aperture to shoot a detail of a drinks on the bar but f2 won’t be enough to have properly sharp pictures of the whole room.

 

I have told you how I would do this, but you seem to know different and have a mind set on something that I don’t see. That’s alright, there are many ways to skin a cat and I don’t know this particular cat of yours after all. I am just picturing it based on my experience of bars and shooting them,, something which I’ve done, also professionally although many years ago, but I doubt that bars have changed that much ever since.

 

I obviously don’t agree with your technical approach, that’s alright, there are again, many ways to do the same thing, but I most firmly urge you to seriously read the links that I gave you above on legal matters concerning shooting images of people which will be consequently used for commercial purposes, failing to do so might cost you very dearly.

 

I suggest also that you google “ bar dimly lit” and then go to images, you will see thousands of pictures, none of which appears, to me, as shot with strobes, some show people too, many are shot with a wideagle wider than the 28mm equivalent that you would get with the adapter on the XT100

 

Good luck.

[SeanoX100T]

Hi Malandro,

 

Thanks for reply, and unfortunately, because I am a new member, my last reply was delayed because it had to be checked by this site's moderator.

 

It is really helpful to get some advice on this type of work. Rather than knowing any differently, I had read on DpReview that some users had been successful with using the X100 for bars and clubs.

 

As it is, I was commissioned by my local paper to do this shoot. They had contacted the bar beforehand so I was expected, and I got the permission of every patron before I had taken a single photo.

 

It was a very challenging night with the constant switch between light and dark,and focusing was very testing, but thanks to the extraordinary sensor of the camera, I rejected using flash, and bumped up the ISO settings. I used the burst mode and S mode, without flash and produced this set, which has just been published by the paper:-

 

http://m.croydonadvertiser.co.uk/pictures/PICTURES-best-images-Saturday-night-Reflex/pictures-28356670-detail/pictures.html

 

I understand that my camera is not the ideal set-up but the weekend's shoot and the feedback from the paper, has given me confidence that this camera can produce some effective results even under extremely difficupt conditions. I did not have to PhotoShop any of the photos.

 

I am looking at buying a 7D, but a camera as discrete and versatile as the X100 is already proving to be a worthy investment.

 

Regards,

 

Sean.

[milandro]

Nice people's shots, but as I envisaged, they are close up of people and there isn’t much in the manner of “ the bar”on them, which I thought it would be your subject .

 

The X100T standard lens is simply not wide enough for the purpose of shooting people in an environment where space is limited.

 

I don’t see why you you wouldn’t consider buying a Fuji with interchangeable lenses. such as a X-T1, XT-10 or X-E2 or X Pro 1 or 2.

 

These cameras are way more compact that a Canon and having  experience with Fuji files you know there is no lack in quality there.

 

As for shooting pictures of people for commercial uses, I still, recommend  and urge anyone to have people sign a release form, they can change their mind even after a long time and cause problems.

[SeanoX100T]

OK, let me straighten out a few things here:-

 

I bought the X100t on the premise that it would serve as an excellent all-round camera, both at home, and abroad, and something I could carry around with me most of the time. I own an SLR, with a variety of lenses, but like so many others, after nearly a decade of use, I find it is not ideal lugging around it around in a large camera bag, and the time taken to set up a composition. In fact, it is not practical at all for being 'out and about with'. With an X100t, you don't have that problem, and can capture so many more 'moments', because it is effectively a (very sophisticated) point-and-shoot. It encourages spontaneity. Yes, the fixed lens is a limitation, but read the reviews, and you find out that if you want to get close to the subject, move towards the subject. So many reviews I have read illustrate how the users become better photographers because of this limitation.

 

Now, I am not suggesting for one moment that to pursue a career in club/bar photography requires the use of this camera. I think this where I have been completely misunderstood. I bought this camera about a month ago. This commission only came up a week ago, and like I said, having read about other users' experiences of photographing bars and clubs, I could see that they had, had some great success with taking pictures. So I decided to give it a go. Is there any harm in that? If I wanted to pursue a career in 'club/bar' photography, I would certainly look at an SLR, tripod etc. But consider this, I could not for one minute envisage setting up a tripod in a packed club in the middle of a very large town centre at 1am on a Saturday night, full of drunk 20 year olds. Trip hazard, perhaps? Drinkers knocking into you? Equipment getting damaged? Think about it. Had it been an opening night at a bar or club, it would have been a completely different story: I am sure the owners would hire a photographer to take some beautifully composed photographs of the venue, with well-behaved clients. And that would require a lavish SLR kit with flashes, and tripod etc. The photographer would have all night to build up a portfolio of photos.

 

I did not buy this camera with the express intention of going out on a Saturday night into a crammed club to take pictures. But being small, discrete, with an excellent sensor for low-lighting conditions, I thought I would try it out. The pictures I took were praised by the paper I was commissioned by. They were, in their words, 'exactly what we were looking for'.  The paper wanted pictures of clubbers in the club. I wanted to convey this, and I am sure you can see sufficient background detail to determine that the people were in a club. I think I have caught the atmosphere too. Sure, it could have gone horribly wrong. But it didn't, and it was a chance I was willing to take. That chance has now paid off, as they want me to go out again in a different venue on a Saturday night. My SLR would not have stood a chance in there.

 

I can also comment that my output does not compare with the photos you would find in a magazine or book for clubbers. Had I produced wide, sweeping photos of the interior with another camera, there is a very good chance that the photos would not have been published. Why? Well, the paper is aimed at the residents of the town. Readers want to be able to recognise the venue, and the people in the photos. In this case, it is all about meeting the needs of the client, and I am relieved that I was able to do so.

 

My original question was how to use this camera in a bar or nightclub. Apologies if I did not make my intentions very clear, but it is a shame I have had to spend so much time justifying myself here.

 

Regarding permission from the clientele, they will take up any complaints directly with the paper, not with me. In support of this, I have shadowed the paper's resident photographer on shoots, and am away of the etiquette in approaching people.

[milandro]

it’s not a matter of etiquette but legislation.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_release

 

Model Release Form - The Royal Photographic Society