35mm (Equivalent) focal length issues..

[Nosegunner]

Hi everyone, am a newb to this site but need to air my frustrations....

 

I used to have an X100 which I loved and have now moved to the excellent X-T1,..however I'm really struggling with what I think is a huge gaping hole in the XF lens range for quality vs focal length. I really wanted a 35mm (equivalent) lens that would at least match that of the X100's for quality and portability. The current 23mm is cumbersome and slow in comparison,..and only pretty average results (not nearly as good as other XF lenses). The 27mm Pancake (albeit a great size) is just plain poor and nowhere near the excellent quality of the rest of the XF range (I don't think it's good enough to be in the range). Please tell me somebody else is finding the same issues and that Fuji will rectify it (..can't see anything on the lens roadmap!). I look at the Zeiss 35mm sitting on the RX1R and the A7 range and I'm pretty jealous..!!! What's the solution to get a high quality 35mm equivalent AF lens on my X-T1?..

[umad?]

If Fuji was to make a high quality 23mm f/2 pancake, who do you think would still buy the X100 line?  

[davidmold]

I disagree with the premise that the XF23 is slow and produces only average results. Although the lens is large in comparison to some other Fuji lenses (though not when compared with most lenses of similar quality), I have found the autofocus to be nice and fast, and in my view the image quality from it is among the best of what the Fuji range can achieve. This view is also supported by the more technically oriented reviews. For example: http://admiringlight.com/blog/review-fujifilm-fujinon-xf-23mm-f1-4-r/3/

 

If you take a look at the Flickr pages for this lens, they contain some of the most beautiful images you'll see taken on any Fuji system, and while the X100T has advantages in terms of size and convenience, in my view the quality of its lens doesn't come close to the sheer beauty the XF23 has to offer. While the 27mm pancake lens is, well, a pancake, its performance is not poor *for a pancake lens*. The lens on the X100T is also a pancake lens, and so its performance is really very comparable with the 27mm, as has been demonstrated quite clearly by those who get excited about the numbers.

[Nosegunner]

umad?

 

- fair point but some will still want a system with interchangeable lenses and others will enjoy the challenge of the fixed prime. Hasn't seem to hurt Sony having both the RX1R and the interchangeable Zeiss for the A7 range.

 

davidmold

 

- thanks for the link - some great shots there albeit not sure what if any post-processing has gone on. Most online reviews say it's reasonable but not exactly mind-blowing (unlike some of the XF range). There are a number of sites which compare the XF23mm 1.4 with the X100's 23mm in a direct shootout, and the results are that they're almost identical, if not the X100 lens fractionally better on occasion. In which case: if they're pretty much identical why is the XF23mm so bulky in comparison?? I would love a lens of the Zeiss quality, size and weight to put on the X-T1 and use that configuration 90% of the time - awesome quality glass with the fantastic Fuji ethos and handling - it just doesn't exist in the lineup yet which frustrates massively. All the XF primes are outstanding except for the 18,23 and 27mm.....I think this is a huge quality gap amongst the Fuji primes that needs addressing - the 14,16 and 35,56mm are so good, why the mediocrity inbetween?! 

[jim0266]

If Fuji want people to adopt the X-Pro 2 they need a 23/2 lens in their stable. One is not even on the roadmap.

[Sluw]

There are no alternatives  If you think those lenses hold your photography possibilities back you should buy a Sony. That said, besides the 18mm which is mediocre, most of the internet disagrees with you on the 23 and 27mm. 

[davidmold]

Indeed. Nosegunner, I would heartily recommend that you stick an XF23 1.4 on your camera for a few weeks and then get back to us.

[quincy]

if they're pretty much identical why is the XF23mm so bulky in comparison??

Because it's a F/1.4 and not a F/2 lens, and is not buried half in the body like on the X100T.

[Nosegunner]

Fair point, I'll try and lay my hands on one to try it out. No doubt I'll like the IQ but my point about its bulk still remains,...it weighs 301g whilst the 35mm weighs just 187g,.. and the latest 35mmF2WR just released is just 177g! I think Fuji are more than capable of making it a little smaller and lighter without losing quality, even at F1.4. Actually stuff that, just make an F1.8 at half the size/wight and I'm sold for life!..

[johant]

Why not buy a X100T if that is what you really want?

I don't agree with you on the 27mm, by the way, but that's fine.

 

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[Marc G.]

Optically, the 23mm sitting on the X100 series is poor compared to the excellent XF 23 1.4 R. The XF 23 has a far more advanced optical formula than both 35s which is why it is superior to both, optically.

 

300g and the "bulk" is the price you have to pay for the optical superiority. A minor one, I might add. 300g for a lens is next to nothing, when looking at all those dslr beasts of lenses. 

 

From an optical design point, it's probably next to impossible to create a slightly slower lens at half the size, half the weight (but keeping a metal mount and lens barrel) which has superior performance at a lower price point. To ask for something like that can only come from a severe lack of knowledge about optics.

 

Besides, the 35/2 Sonnar of the RX series is a great lens. Yeah. But it's also huge and the RX series has a few downsides, as well.

[darknj]

Like the others posters, the 23mm f1.4 is among the best lens of the XF series, if you find it mediocre I am afraid not much else within the XF mount would please you.

While the bulk is real and can be cumbersome the quality that comes out of it does counter balance it.

As for the 27mm, it is a lens of compromise, we are exchanging a bit of the IQ for size. That being said I certainly do not find it that weak, it still a good lens and the size works in its favor.

[frod]

Well, this was a rather ill informed original post. The 23mm and 27mm are both Highly Recommended by photozone.de:

 

http://www.photozone.de/fuji_x/868-fuji23f14?start=2

 

http://www.photozone.de/fuji_x/855-fuji27f28?start=2

 

If you've found reviews favouring the X100 lens over the 23mm f/1.4, I'd suggest you're being misled by a site surviving on affiliate link income.

[Nosegunner]

Maybe mis-informed rather than ill-informed perhaps.

 

Clearly my quest to get Fuji to produce a lighter weight (and possibly slightly improved IQ) prime at 23mm (35mm equivalent) is one that I'm alone on. I'll concede to the users here that the current 23mm is of higher IQ than I've read on internet review sites, [ frod - the first link you put on your reply only gives it 3.5-4 stars for optical quality..! The ones I listed say it's also good but none say it's amazing ]

 

Size and weight certainly should be an issue to all. Simply hold the 23mmF1.4 next to the X100 lens and even if some of it is in the body, the F-stop and metal barrelling should not account for the gross difference in size and weight, it's ridiculous and nobody should be getting defensive on Fuji's account. My point was that there is a gap at the the 23mm (35equivalent) prime for Fuji to introduce another/new option - maybe a small 23mm F2 or F1.8 (akin to some other manufacturers who've created outstanding examples). Don't tell me I'd be the only one to buy and appreciate something like that? After all the current lens is still the only prime option at this focal length - if you had an X-T10 it would feel ridiculously unbalanced, just to shoot at 35mm equivalent focal length!

 

Look at Fuji's own site and see all the 5 star awards for all the primes except the ones I've mentioned. If I've read around the internet that the 23mm1.4 is 'good but not amazing', what other info am I to go on? I want portability and balance but I don't want to shoot at 40mm (the 27mm lens) either. To be able to invest in a very high quality portable lens to leave on the camera 85% of the time is not too much to ask from the Fuji system, (the other 15% for switching lenses to more particular tasks). I really didn't want a DSLR. Is everyone completely content with everything Fuji has in its line-up? Is there any hardware any of you want to see in the Fuji range? Is it not worth discussing hardware options we'd all prefer to see alongside the much-appreciated firmware updates?...

[frod]

Photozone don't generally hand out 5 stars ever. Check out the review of your 35mm for example. Word of warning, you may find yourself selling it if you're that influenced by online evaluations instead of personal experiences though.

 

As a 50-140 owner and former FF Nikon shooter the weight concerns raised just don't resonate with me at all I'm afraid. The 23mm on my x-e2 is just about perfectly balanced, the size is no greater than the 18-55 kit when zoomed out and it's suitably lighter and smaller than its equivalent peers in the DSLR world.

 

It sounds to me (as many have suggested) that you've bought the wrong system given your list of complaints here.

[frod]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for options; smaller versions of every focal length would be nice to have... but you're vilifying a great lens here based on stuff you read in some blogs because it doesn't match requirements you've specified that it was never designed to address.

[Nosegunner]

Steady on,...not vilifying at all. Saying the 23mm is 'good but not amazing' is not vilifying in any way.

 

Commenting that the 23mm doesn't seem to have the quote.."incredible" and "amazing" reviews of the other XF primes (awards etc..) just highlights a gap in the range for me. Seems like it's only me though.

 

Love the Fuji ethos, handling, sensor and IQ on the lenses I have, but want to invest in an incredible 35mm equiv prime to leave on it 85% of the time. Was a little frustrated to see Fuji bring out the new 35mm F2 and not a similar 23mm F2 (no one is saying that was a needless release..). Sony is tempting for IQ and Zeiss lenses (either RX1Rii or A7R) but handling and functionality nowhere near the enjoyment of Fuji. Leica just ridiculous for price - the Q would've been nice if not for the 28mm lens vs a 35mm. I'll retreat back into my hole and live with my own frustrations from now on, safe in the knowledge everyone else thinks the Fuji range is perfect... I am interested to hear of any other new hardware people think Fuji should be producing if not the lens solution I've suggested... 

[frod]

Just try it. Awards are as credible in the camera industry as they are in every other consumer industry.

[mdm]

- Nosegooner

 

I've got 14f2.8, 60f2.4 and nothing in between except 18-55 kit just because the monsters like 16, 23 and 56 simple not for me. I'm getting 35f2 soon and will waiting for another lightweights. frod said he came from Nikon dslr world so he is accustomed and me not as my previous camera had the size and weight of a set of a playing cards. And yes, Fuji is my system.

[Marc G.]

To give you a little reference as to how good the 23mm is:

 

It is better than the 16mm (understandably so, as it is not as wide, so easier to correct optically), better than both 35's and as good as the 56 1.2.

 

You clearly didn't use the 23mm yourself. Trusting internet information over user information (and you're getting plenty of that here) is just plain stupid.

 

The constant ignoring of facts isn't helpful either. The XF 23 1.4 R doesn't leave a gap in the current lineup. Instead, it's one of the peaks. The 27 2.8, besides, isn't bad either. It's small, solidly built, sharp and focuses quite fast. It just doesn't offer f/1.4 or an aperture ring. Something I can forgive the lens which can be had for 191€ in Europe. Now, the 18mm is another story.

 

Also, the 23 balances quite well. After all, it is smaller and lighter than the 56 1.2, which also balances well with a camera like the X-T1. And I don't hear much whining from users of X-Pro or X-E cameras when it comes to the 56 1.2.

 

I had the X100 and X100s and still have the XF 23 1.4 R. While the XF is not my most favorite lens (just because 23mm isn't my most favorite focal length), it is M I L E S ahead of the 23mm f/2 of the X100 series, when it comes to sharpness wide open (& stopped down), optical correction for aberrations, close focus performance. The X100 series lens is clearly an optical compromise in many regards. Fuji didn't make that mistake twice and the XF 23 1.4 R is about as good as it gets in Fujis lens portfolio. The only lens to exceed everything else is the XF 90 f/2 R WR.

[Nosegunner]

Christ.... head above the parapet and it's been raining bullets so I'm ducking back down! 

 

In the meantime I'll get a 23mm F1.4 and wait it out until Fuji/Leica/Zeiss come up with a nice little 35 equiv AF beauty that'll truly be the one-lens-travel-the-world-stick-it-in-a-big-pocket solution bolted to what is a fantastic camera (ok I've got large pockets..). 

 

p.s.  can you all at least agree that Fuji should throw the 18mm into the toilet if nothing else..?!...

[Nosegunner]

p.p.s.  Thank God I'm not alone!!.... Just read the 'What lenses should Fuji release next?' thread on this site and there's at least 5 others wanting a 23mmF2 'Summicron' sized effort to bolt on (stop suggesting the X100 people.!). Come on Fuji,...after all you've just done it for the 35mm...

[jorgemtrevino]

“Sharpness is a bourgeois concept”
― Henri Cartier-Bresson

[johant]

You clearly didn't use the 23mm yourself. Trusting internet information over user information (and you're getting plenty of that here) is just plain stupid.

 

True.

 

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[johant]

 

 

p.s. can you all at least agree that Fuji should throw the 18mm into the toilet if nothing else..?!...

Nope. It's a very useful focal length, and a decent lens. Of course it could be better, but then it might become bigger again?

 

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