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Fujifilm X-T2 rumors


Patrick FR

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1080p is yesterday's technology. Would they really build an updated model without 4K? ...even the phones have 4K now.

 

Just in case you haven't noticed, most of us here picked Fuji not because of their super advances in technology... Heck, there is only a handful users that reported actually using the video mode on any of the Fuji cameras.

 

Side note, you can do 4k everywhere now, that's great, but how many 4k screens that are affordable are around at the moment ? What about the rest of media industry ? I would take any good implementation of 1080 with 24p, 30p, 60p, 120p and slowmo at 240p over 4k @30p or 60p.

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1080p is yesterday's technology. Would they really build an updated model without 4K? ...even the phones have 4K now.

 

There is no reason for 4K. IMHO most people that are asking for 4K never edited video. If you wanna do 4K another brand would much better for you... Good 1080 with 240 frames/second is much better. Look at last canon EOS 80D...

I Personally planning move to Fuji and 4K is the last one on wish list....

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Just in case you haven't noticed, most of us here picked Fuji not because of their super advances in technology... Heck, there is only a handful users that reported actually using the video mode on any of the Fuji cameras.

 

Side note, you can do 4k everywhere now, that's great, but how many 4k screens that are affordable are around at the moment ? What about the rest of media industry ? I would take any good implementation of 1080 with 24p, 30p, 60p, 120p and slowmo at 240p over 4k @30p or 60p.

 
I actually did pick Fuji recently over Canon because they finally are at a level (with the X-Pro 2) that I can say their AF and video have reached a point I don't need to hang onto my frequently less used Canon gear.  Maybe the "old guard" don't want to Fuji to advance their technology, but new users won't be attracted to Fuji unless they can at least keep up.  
 
As for "there is only a handful of users that reported actually using the video mode on any of the Fuji cameras", well, that's because before the X-Pro 2 came along, the video mode on Fuji wasn't worth using.  Much better off whipping out your mobile phone for that.  In fact that's exactly what I USED to do.  It's a real shame it took Fuji so long, but they've finally got decent video.  I don't need to use my phone for video now unless I want to shoot 4K LOL.  
 
Now onto your last point.  4K isn't just about displaying 4K on 4K enabled devices (which are becoming much more common BTW).  It's actually a fantastic editors format.  4K deals with issues like aliasing and moire by giving the system more to work with.  It also can be cropped very effectivly when your final product is HD.  This makes a scene shot in 4K like having more than one camera.  You can shoot something wide, then cut in for a close up without losing quality.
 
Just because some people don't know what to do with it, doesn't mean we who do know what to do with it should be denied.  Also, fuji should NOT rest on the retro/hipster mindset, that can only take them so far.  People WILL choose the opposition if they refuse to keep up.

This is why I left Canon.  Canon were determined not to bring 4K to affordable level cameras (protecting upper camera sales).  I got sick of it and jumped to Fuji soon after the Xpro2 release.  Resting on your laurels is a great way to lose customers.

 

There is no reason for 4K. IMHO most people that are asking for 4K never edited video. If you wanna do 4K another brand would much better for you... Good 1080 with 240 frames/second is much better. Look at last canon EOS 80D...

I Personally planning move to Fuji and 4K is the last one on wish list....

 

Well, I'm a professional level video editor and I know exactly why 4K is great.  There absolutely is a reason for Fuji to include 4K.

 

I never understood the "I don't want it so no one should have it" mentality some people seem to have.

 

I don't really want a tilty screen on the X-T2, but I am not gonna whine if it's included. I can just choose not to use it if I don't want to.

Same applies to 4K.  Why cripple a product just because some people don't want a feature or worse, to protect sales of higher end products?  That's very Canon-esque thinking.

 

You mentioned the 80D.  Canon not including 4K on that was a HUGE mistake IMHO and reflects their backward/old fashioned thinking.  

Edited by Stealthy Ninja
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Just in case you haven't noticed, most of us here picked Fuji not because of their super advances in technology... Heck, there is only a handful users that reported actually using the video mode on any of the Fuji cameras.

 

Side note, you can do 4k everywhere now, that's great, but how many 4k screens that are affordable are around at the moment ? What about the rest of media industry ? I would take any good implementation of 1080 with 24p, 30p, 60p, 120p and slowmo at 240p over 4k @30p or 60p.

You can get $350 4K monitors at Monoprice, they've had stuff in that price range for about a year. They don't have high build quality but the image is decent. Apparently they should be releasing a higher quality IPS 4K monitor for around $500 in the next few months. If your primary application is just being able to see more of your pictures while you edit then something like that could save you a lot of money vs. buying a 4K laptop.

 

As far as big screen TV's go, right now is just about the worst time you could buy 4K since UHD Bluray is about to launch this fall and right now only a few displays fully support the 10 bit colour and HDR features being implemented.

Edited by 9.V.III
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[...]

 

Just going to quote you instead of your whole post for the sake of convenient reading.

 

4k screens is still far from reaching the general market, the general offer is still above 500$ for a 40" screen, the average family will not be spending that much on a TV just to see videos shot from their iPhone, which they have no issues changing every year...

 

 

[...]

 

 

Good screens that will not make your eyes bleed cost more than just the offer at Monoprice. The screen base cost about half the price of their offer, I truly do not believe they could have make anything of decent quality by cutting that much corners.

 

Also, I do agree that 4k video is a good thing but Fuji video implementation has been so piss poor that I would rather have them not spend any time on a technology they are clearly struggling with, just to match the market need.

The time/energy could have been spent elsewhere for other features that would have been great for us, Zebra peaking for example, even for still photography would have been a great addition.

Some more lenses ? Faster advances in the AF speed to real start getting shoulder to shoulder with the competition...

 

There are just so many other places where improvement were clearly needed but they let those slip out because of 4k video ? That absolutely make no sense to me. How long have been asking for a decent HDR mode ? How many of us have been wondering if that lens would be fast enough for the AF speed to keep up ?

 

Beside, they did marketed themselves as something different than other products, they are making cameras for people who loves taking pictures, users who like to have the tactile control over their gear again.

 

It is not that I do not want that feature, I am most likely going to get myself a Nikon D500 later this year, 4k is small reason for it but mostly the video features are better implemented.

 

I really do like what Fuji did with the X-Pro2, but I can not help to think that the X-Pro1 should have been at that level right off the bat instead of making us wait 4 years for it.

Fuji was clearly testing the water with their first few model of the X series and now they seems to be branching out into the mainstream of pro-sumers, I really think they are going to bend themselves backward to follow the current trends instead of doing what they did when the X100 was released.

Slow things down, take the time to think about your picture and compose it.

 

I don't know, maybe I am getting angsty because my beloved company is loosing a bit of itself for the sake of more market shares.

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^^ I'll agree with a lot of what you said.

 

Fuji should continue their good work with video (Xpro2) and make the XT2 a very capable 4K video camera, but not at expense of stills (I have no doubt fuji won't compromise stills for video). They should NOT just half heartedly do video on the XT2. They should offer a high end video solution and a first class stills experience. If they can't do both, I'd agree, why bother.

 

This is why I'm so passionate about encouraging Fuji to pursue the video side of things. Give us a great hybrid camera.

 

Auto focus should take priority over video though, as much as I want it to have great video. Class leading AF would be very great.

 

I'll also agree that 4K devices aren't common enough to need to deliver in 4K. But I'm talking about using 4K as an editors format (with the final product being HD). Not just going straight from camera to a TV

 

:)

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[...]

 

For a video editor, I can perfectly understand your need, working with 4k files are a lot easier to down sample into full HD or even lower resolution while retaining as maximum information as possible.

I am still impressed by what the GH4 from Panasonic is capable in its video mode. That one is really impressive, specially since the last FW update where you can change the focus point in post.

 

But I find that unnerving that people around are getting excited over the 4k video feature while there are other things that would need a clear immediate fixing instead of announcing the video capabilities of the X-T2.

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For a video editor, I can perfectly understand your need, working with 4k files are a lot easier to down sample into full HD or even lower resolution while retaining as maximum information as possible.

I am still impressed by what the GH4 from Panasonic is capable in its video mode. That one is really impressive, specially since the last FW update where you can change the focus point in post.

 

But I find that unnerving that people around are getting excited over the 4k video feature while there are other things that would need a clear immediate fixing instead of announcing the video capabilities of the X-T2.

 

 

Yeh I'll agree with that.  I want 4K well done in the X-T2, but not at the expense of other more important things.  If it comes down to it and I see the need I'll go the GH4 or black magic route.  I'd prefer not having to buy into more camera brands though.

 

I'm lucky to be in a "transition" stage of life and I'm able to wait and see.  I'm looking forward to the X-T2.

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Personally, I see the Fuji as a photographer's tool - not a videographer's.   There are plenty of "do everything" cameras out there - and Fuji, right from the start with the X100, has gone a different route.    I just finally jumped into the Fuji world with a XT1, 16/1.4 and 35/1.4, and a large part of the attraction for me was the form factor of the camera:   everything manual and via dials;  i finally have a smaller camera (with emphasis on *camera*, not electronic-box-that-can-take-photos).

 

That is not to say the requirements of those who want video arent valid - it is just that *this* is not the appropriate tool for those needs.   Complaining about lack of 4k video on a Fuji strikes me as akin to complaining that a 2-door sports car cannot carry a lot of luggage:  that's not its forte.    

 

Of  course, if Fuji can fit it in, why not?  No harm done.

 

(My first post here, too.   Hi everyone)

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Well, I'm a professional level video editor and I know exactly why 4K is great.  There absolutely is a reason for Fuji to include 4K.

 

I never understood the "I don't want it so no one should have it" mentality some people seem to have.

 

I don't really want a tilty screen on the X-T2, but I am not gonna whine if it's included. I can just choose not to use it if I don't want to.

Same applies to 4K.  Why cripple a product just because some people don't want a feature or worse, to protect sales of higher end products?  That's very Canon-esque thinking.

 

 

Yes! YES! Well said mate! :)

 

Let me ask all the "purists": are you satisfied with Fuji's market share right now? Will you pay $2500-3000 for the (equivalent) X-T2 in three years time? Because that's how much Fuji will have to price it to make a profit, if they don't expand their customer base.

 

If you don't want a feature, please don't use it. It can't get any simpler than that. And please don't say that extra features add on cost; the X-Pro2 is a clear indication: it could have 4K (albeit of limited functionality) but they chose not to include it, to not disturb the "loyal fans".

 

Newsflash: you don't expand your market by cattering to the needs of "loyal fans". You try to win over more.

 

As it is, I'll be forced to buy an additional different brand camera just to cover my (limited for now, but expanding) video needs. I should be more than happy to just use the X-Pro2 for video and only have one system to deal with. If the X-T2 doesn't drastically expand on video features, it's a non-starter for me.

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A friend who shoots M4/3 tells me he videos in 4k, and can then go through the video to pull 4k (8MP) stills from the video, navigating frame by frame. (if I understood him correctly)

 

TBH

 

I can see this feature being very useful

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A friend who shoots M4/3 tells me he videos in 4k, and can then go through the video to pull 4k (8MP) stills from the video, navigating frame by frame. (if I understood him correctly)

 

TBH

 

I can see this feature being very useful

 

I have done this a lot of times with the latest Panasonic cameras.

 

For example, you can get a short 4K clip of an action subject (I have tried it with motorbikes) and -effectively- have a sequence of X pictures, each about 8Mp. You can then choose which ones you prefer.

 

The same feature can be used for focus stacking, with the latest firmware, at least with the GX8 that I tested it with. All that is to say that 4K has a number of photographic applications too.

 

Of course, 4K is extremely practical if you need to correct some camera shake in post, and 4K footage ALWAYS look better than native 1080p when downsized.

 

For a camera suitable for photojournalists (as the X-T2 will probably be) lack of -at least- competitive quality video, will be marketing suicide. Day by day, more photojournalists demand some degree of modern video capabilities.

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[...]

For a camera suitable for photojournalists (as the X-T2 will probably be) lack of -at least- competitive quality video, will be marketing suicide. Day by day, more photojournalists demand some degree of modern video capabilities.

 

You mean like the Chicago Sun Times a few years ago ?

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1080p is yesterday's technology. Would they really build an updated model without 4K? ...even the phones have 4K now.

Yes, I just got an iPhone SE with 4k video that the phone is not even able to play in full res on its own display, nor does anyone incl. myself own a 4k tv or a 4k computer display. 4k is overkill in a Fujifilm camera which excells at still photography and has never been very good with video in the first place. I would rather stick with 2k and better video quality as well as perhaps slow motion.

Edited by petergabriel
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A friend who shoots M4/3 tells me he videos in 4k, and can then go through the video to pull 4k (8MP) stills from the video, navigating frame by frame. (if I understood him correctly)

 

 

 

Yes, the GX8 has a mode for that: 4k burst

Actually more useful than I initially thought. The new postfocus feature is also based on the 4k burst. 

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Sorry, I don't get your reference, probably because I'm not American

 

In 2013, the Chicago Sun Times fired all their photographers and handed out iPhones to the reporters/journalist and any person going on field as replacement.

 

That was referred as one of the many nails in the paper journal world.

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Why I would wait for an x-t2 as opposed to getting a cheap x-t1:

 

Probably because...

 

- It will have 1/8000 mechanical shutter. Almost as good as my beloved ND Filter on the x100t

- New sensor & New processor. And thereby better high iso handling, better resolution, more PDAF (and based on x-pro 2 reviews, more punchy - aka better looking - images).

- Faster AF in low light. -3 EV vs. 0.5 EV

- Acros

- Maybe it will have the joystick from x-pro 2. If so, please don't make the body bigger because of it.

- Dual card slots.

 

Hopefully because...

 

- Upgraded EVF with higher resolution and perhaps even magnification.

 

Not so much because...

 

- 4K video. I really don't care.

- If they change the form factor, look or feel of the camera. The ISO dial is just fine as is.

 

All in all new tech that Fujifilm will improve upon via firmware update for years to come.

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[...]

- It will have 1/8000 mechanical shutter. Almost as good as my beloved ND Filter on the x100t

- New sensor & New processor. And thereby better high iso handling, better resolution, more PDAF (and based on x-pro 2 reviews, more punchy - aka better looking - images).

- Faster AF in low light. -3 EV vs. 0.5 EV

- Acros

- Maybe it will have the joystick from x-pro 2. If so, please don't make the body bigger because of it.

- Dual card slots.

 

Hopefully because...

 

- Upgraded EVF with higher resolution and perhaps even magnification.

 

[...]

All in all new tech that Fujifilm will improve upon via firmware update for years to come.

 

- Not certain of wha you mean with the ND filter and 1/8000 MS, but since the X-Pro2 has it, there are good chances for the X-T2 to also get it.

- They are certainly going to use the same sensor as the X-Pro2, no reasons for them not to.

- The low light AF sensitivity was already corrected and upgraded to -5EV from FW 4.0 fo the X-T1.

- It was already said that only the X-Pro2 will have the Arcos film simulation.

- Again, since the X-Pro2 has the dual slot, there is a very good chances for the X-T2 to gifted with that feature, specially if they plan on making the X-T2 a 4K video shooting camera.

- Same thing for the EvF, the X-Pro2 has a 120 Hz refresh rate, chances are the X-T2 will keep at the very least the same magnification as the X-T1 but get a bump on the refresh rate.

- 4k video, I don't care either but since that is the current trend of the market and Fuji does want to increase its shares, it has to provide that feature, to my dismay...

- There is a very good chance that the X-T2 will be bigger too, first of all because a lot of the same features from the X-Pro2 will be ported to the X-T2, so the size increase will also be ported, also it has often been mentioned that the X-T2's 4k video will cause heating issues, thus it will need a larger body to dissipate it.

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Sorry for nitpicking. Fuji claims +0.5 EV AF sensitivity in the release information of FW 4.0 for the T1.

 

http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/software/firmware/x/xt1/history.html

 

There seems to be no official information about the AF of the Pro 2. So 0.5 EV would be my best guess.

 

Edit: Typo corrected.

Edited by J√ľrgen Heger
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- Not certain of wha you mean with the ND filter and 1/8000 MS, but since the X-Pro2 has it, there are good chances for the X-T2 to also get it.

- They are certainly going to use the same sensor as the X-Pro2, no reasons for them not to.

- The low light AF sensitivity was already corrected and upgraded to -5EV from FW 4.0 fo the X-T1.

- It was already said that only the X-Pro2 will have the Arcos film simulation.

- Again, since the X-Pro2 has the dual slot, there is a very good chances for the X-T2 to gifted with that feature, specially if they plan on making the X-T2 a 4K video shooting camera.

- Same thing for the EvF, the X-Pro2 has a 120 Hz refresh rate, chances are the X-T2 will keep at the very least the same magnification as the X-T1 but get a bump on the refresh rate.

- 4k video, I don't care either but since that is the current trend of the market and Fuji does want to increase its shares, it has to provide that feature, to my dismay...

- There is a very good chance that the X-T2 will be bigger too, first of all because a lot of the same features from the X-Pro2 will be ported to the X-T2, so the size increase will also be ported, also it has often been mentioned that the X-T2's 4k video will cause heating issues, thus it will need a larger body to dissipate it.

 

 

I think you misunderstood my post entirely. I have listed it with specs that we will probably (most likely) see in the x-t2, then what we hopefully will see in the x-t2 and then what I don't really care about seeing ported to the x-t2 :-)

 

- The x100t has a ND filter, but shutter speed is only as fast as 1/4000 sec. (never mind the electronic shutter), so given that the x-t2 will get the 1/8000 sec. shutter speed of the x-pro2 this remedies the lack of ND filter, so you can shoot with open lenses in sunlight.

- No, you are misinformed. The 4.0 firmware changed the x-t1 from +2.5EV to +0.5 EV. The x-pro2 is even better with its -3.0EV

- I don't see why the x-t2 should get any bigger. The x-pro2 got bigger than the x-pro1 because of the added weather sealing.

- You may be right about the 4K heat issue, but I think Fujifilm will prefer to keep the size as is as opposed to fattening the x-t1 solely because of 4k video.

- Is Acros limited to the x-pro2? Why?

Edited by petergabriel
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Of existing cameras (due to needing the new processing speed)... of course the X-T2 will get Acros 

 

Really ? I think I saw in an interview that they wanted to keep the Acros film only for the X-Pro2 camera, could be wrong tho, as I have been sick for the last few days and the form is one of my few entertainment.

 

I think you misunderstood my post entirely. I have listed it with specs that we will probably (most likely) see in the x-t2, then what we hopefully will see in the x-t2 and then what I don't really care about seeing ported to the x-t2 :-)

 

- The x100t has a ND filter, but shutter speed is only as fast as 1/4000 sec. (never mind the electronic shutter), so given that the x-t2 will get the 1/8000 sec. shutter speed of the x-pro2 this remedies the lack of ND filter, so you can shoot with open lenses in sunlight.

- No, you are misinformed. The 4.0 firmware changed the x-t1 from +2.5EV to +0.5 EV. The x-pro2 is even better with its -3.0EV

- I don't see why the x-t2 should get any bigger. The x-pro2 got bigger than the x-pro1 because of the added weather sealing.

- You may be right about the 4K heat issue, but I think Fujifilm will prefer to keep the size as is as opposed to fattening the x-t1 solely because of 4k video.

- Is Acros limited to the x-pro2? Why?

 

- Ohh nice to know, I wasn't aware of the ND filter on the X100T ! 

- And I stand corrected, thank you for your details :D

- Well, the X-Pro2 is about as thick as the X-T1 at the moment, and that's not enough to dissipate the heat for 4K video. Chances are, the X-T2 will be bigger and thicker too.

- And that's where my issue stand with the X-T2 and Fuji, they are trying so hard to push 4k into that camera that they are willing to make sacrifice to the body and risk alienating the first buyers of the X-T system to maybe get more market share. At least that is the impression I got, the more I read about the 4k video capabilities and why it doesn't work on the X-Pro2, it doesn't take much to guesstimate there will be a size increase.

- As said above, I think I read that part on one of the interview from Fuji about it, not certain if the limitation is technological or if it is something they want to keep only for the X-Pro2. If someone with better Google-Fu than me, I would love to be corrected on this.

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Really ? I think I saw in an interview that they wanted to keep the Acros film only for the X-Pro2 camera, could be wrong tho, as I have been sick for the last few days and the form is one of my few entertainment.

 

 

My understanding was that Acros is processor intensive and if they put it in existing cameras it would be too slow. In the interview I read, the Fuji rep said that is why it will not be coming to any of the other current cameras. So I assume that the X-T2 with the new processor will also have Acros. I sure hope so!

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