Optical viewfinder...are they really necessary?

[246]

Hi, I'm new to the Fuji - X - forum, but certainly not new to Fuji.

I have used fuji film since I first began my love affair with photography over thirty years ago, when I purchased my first camera - A Zenit ET, and then a Ricoh KR 10, Yaschica AF230, Nikon FM2 and then I fell in love with medium format and invested in a Mamiya 7. But through the years although I used many films from Agfa Scala B&W slide film to Kodachrome 64, Fujifilm was always my favourite, and as a lot of people here have mentioned, it's something about the colour; the saturation, the fuji 'hue' - there's no other film like it. Okay, so I'm digressing a little, but when I went digital, which took some time I have to admit after a bit of a slump in my interest in photography, I actually bought a Ricoh Caplio GX100 and a Nikon D90 - (the Fuji S5 Pro was always in the back of my mind, however) and I fell in love with photography again. I have allways liked to be a little different from my photography peers...using Light Craft's Lightzone instead of Photoshop, and so then, I bought the Fuji X100 and wow, it is stunning...sometimes bloody annoying to use...slow autofocus, awful manual focus, etc, etc, but the colours and the filmic quality of the images ( similar to the Ricoh), were awesome..I've just completed a magazine of family holiday 'snaps' purely taken with the Fuji.

Which leads me on to the subject of my first post. One of the main reason for buying this camera was the hybrid EVF/OVF...how do they do that? Any camera had to have a optical viewfinder, because my favourite camera of all time is the Mamiya 7, but digitally I had to have a viewfinder, hence the Ricoh, which had a really bad EVF, but  I loved it, and it looked cool, and I could shoot in 1:1 format, in B&W with the EVF at 90 degrees to the camera (I almost bought the new Panasonic GX8 because of this...). I think you can tell a lot about a camera from those images posted on sites like Flickr from those who own them...the Ricoh GX100 still has some of the coolest images on Flickr to date, and so does the Fuji X Pro 1...which is why I cannot wait  much longer for the X PRO 2...But why haven't I gone for the XT1? Because it's not got an Optical viewfinder, that's why...BUT, and I hate to admit this, I hardly ever use the optical finder on my Fuji...and I've seen the XT1's viewfinder...it's amazing, as good if not better than the optical finder experiance...So why must I also have an optical finder...whether I use it or not...does anyone else feel like this?

 

[milandro]

The X Pro 1 and the X 100 (S-T)  have an optical viewfinder which in the case of the X Pro 1 is also usable with interchangeable lenses but won’t work for lenses that are too long or too short that the viewfinder can actually work with.

 

Leicas had the same problem and for longer of shorter lenses you needed some different way to look through. The X pro 1 has the EVF for that.

 

All these cameras have an option to use their electronic viewfinder which is activated by a lever at the front. Once it is on you use these cameras as a camera with an electronic viewfinder. The X-Pro-1 seems to have some OVF problems with some lenses such as the 90mm but it might be only a firmware problem.

 

The OVF, which you admit you hardly ever use, is, apparently, something that aficionados use while shooting street photography leaving one eye open looking at more field than the one in the frame, and the other eye on the OVF to look at the content of frame.

 

I can’t do that.

 

I have used cameras with an OVF in the past Leica CL and Konica Hexar, but I always preferred the “ reflex” at the time and now the EVF.

 

I actually prefer the aesthetic of the cameras without the hump on the top ( X-E1 or 2 ) but the quality of the EVF of the X-T1 ( and the X-T10) was what sold this design to me.

[johant]

Simple answer to your question: yes.

 

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[milandro]

really? I thought it was “ not really... but it looks so cool"

 

Sent from my computer ( you don’t need to know the brand) at home

[johant]

 

 

really? I thought it was “ not really... but it looks so cool"

With my eyes, nothing beats looking through real glass.

 

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[milandro]

I am sorry for you

[johant]

I am sorry for you

Nah ... I beat you with clarinet playing [emoji14]

 

(just kidding)

 

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[Dis]

I use OVF when I need to reframe during continuous shooting. X-T1 has hard times to deal with it. Older cameras is almost impossible to use as EVF freezes during continuous shooting. Can say nothing about X100T and X-T10. Otherwise I don't use it either.

[milandro]

Oh I am sure that you can!

 

My clarinet playing sucks big time, so you probably do beat me, and my saxophone playing is just a bit better, I am a balladeer by choice and necessity. 

 

I am also a careful and slow shooter. Meditative I’d say!

 

I’ve never used, if not by accident, continuous shooting ( and I truly hate going through countless versions of the same shot!)  .

 

That’s why I can live with 3 batteries ONLY and never have used them all on a whole day shooting.

 

But that’s me, I’m slow.

 

All tests show that frame accuracy with the OVF is an oxymoron 

[johant]

I am sorry for you

May be my eyes indeed, but I'm fine with the X-Pro1 OVF. However, the EVF gives me a headache over time. I use both with glasses, so it shouldn't be the diopter.

 

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[milandro]

Wouldn’t know why the EVF should dive you problems causing you headaches, other than it is not a “ still” picture but like any video it is a sequence of images.

 

I have had a X-E1 and its EVF was adequate but the moment I put my eye onto the X-T1 I said: “ Wow!” and decided then and there that I was going to get a X-T1 if I had the chance. Few weeks after the X-E1 had a problem and this lead to me switching to the X-T1. 

[johant]

 

 

Wouldn’t know why the EVF should dive you problems causing you headaches, other than it is not a “ still” picture but like any video it is a sequence of images.

 

I suspect it's the different light; I especially noticed it after my latest surgery. Caveat; I never tried the X-T1 or X-E2 EVFs beyond testing in a camera shop. My understanding is that they are a definite improvement over the X-Pro1 EVF.

 

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[milandro]

the X-T1 and 10 are certainly improvements

[johant]

the X-T1 and 10 are certainly improvements

 

Ik kom hem wel een keertje bij je proberen als dat mag

[milandro]

Yes! Call me, Johan, when you are around this parts! .

[Tonio]

 

Optical viewfinder...are they really necessary?

Just my point of view :

Necessary? No.

Useful? Yes.

 

I bought my X-Pro in 2012 because I wanted both the optical and the electronic viewfinder. Today I just love the EVF and I have to admit I use it 99% of the time.

 

But once in a while I'm very glad to still have an OVF, specially when it comes to improve the battery life of my X-Pro: when an full EVF body will just die (X-E, X-T, etc), the X-Pro or X100 will save you a few more shots. Very helpful sometimes.

Also in some situations (like street photography), the OVF allows you to anticipate your shot as you can see what is happening outside of the frame in the viewfinder. So yes there is a parallax error, but if you know your lens it won't a big issue anymore.

[Luica]

Just my point of view :

Necessary? No.

Useful? Yes.

 

I bought my X-Pro in 2012 because I wanted both the optical and the electronic viewfinder. Today I just love the EVF and I have to admit I use it 99% of the time.

 

But once in a while I'm very glad to still have an OVF, specially when it comes to improve the battery life of my X-Pro: when an full EVF body will just die (X-E, X-T, etc), the X-Pro or X100 will save you a few more shots. Very helpful sometimes.

Also in some situations (like street photography), the OVF allows you to anticipate your shot as you can see what is happening outside of the frame in the viewfinder. So yes there is a parallax error, but if you know your lens it won't a big issue anymore.

I agree very much to the points you made. OVF sometimes very helpful, regarding longer battery life, for street photography and also for continuous shooting without having blackouts of an EVF. I just have made some thoughts about a X-Pro2 design and I am supporting the idea to see there again an hybrid viewfinder with OVF / EFV. I want to post this ideas here in the forum the coming days.

[milandro]

I am afraid that the X pro 2 team of designers has addressed that already by now and despite your, no doubt valuable, suggestion that stage of “ thinking “ is done and dusted already.

[jlmphotos]

No Optical viewfinder.  No camera for me

[246]

Interesting. I was 90% there in my decision to get the XT1, however I'm going to hang on until the X PRO2 comes out...I just hope it's worth it...optical viewfinder with superb electronic overlay, weatherproofing(?), beautiful looks, etc. In the meantime, I'll continue to shoot with all my cameras to produce the kind of results I like, afterall it's all about the image, how ever it was taken...but a new camera ( as in a new anything) always inspires...and that's a good enough reason to spend hard earned cash as I can think.

[rogazilla]

Hello everyone. New to forum here but certainly not new to fuji either.  This is a topic I have been thinking about for a long time.

 

For my main camera, I will always want OVF. 

 

I am spoiled by big and bright OVF.  It has less distraction and I feel more connected to the world whether taking the camera up to my face or moving it off.  I liked rangefinder even more because I see even more of the world an what comes and goes into my frame.  That's the reason I bought the X100 at launch.  It is now replaced by the x100t.

 

The real problem with EVF for me.  May be psychological but I feel like I am looking at a television at the end of a tunnel.  Completely disconnected to the world.  I do like the fact I dont have to 'imagine' what the final picture is like and I can dial in the exposure 100% everytime.  This is still not my prefered method.  Above someone mentioned headache.  I dont get headache but over time if I use EVF for too long, I get a bit disoriented and the brightness of it makes my pupil has to adjust to real life light and the light in the tunnel... Very annoying from time to time.

 

That's a major reason why I dont forsee a future where all of my cameras will be EVF.  Definitely not the one I use daily.

 

Roger

[madmaxmedia]

The one thing I'd like to see Fuji try to improve somehow is parallax error.

 

I think it has to be done mechanically somehow, or some sort of hardware modification or addition to the system. Currently the moving frame lines cannot be complete accurate because the camera can only guess at distance to what's at the edge of the frame. The perspective and required parallax compensation depends on the entire scene (I think???), but the camera can adjust based on distance to the focus point only. Here's how I think it is now-

 

Subject (focus object) and background both far away- easy, no parallax correction required (or very little.)

Subject and background both very close- easy, can derive frame line from subject distance for proper parallax correction.

Subject near/background far- Tricky, camera only has distance data for near subject (result in overcompensating frame line)

Subject far/background near-Tricky, camera only has distance for far subject (result in under-compensating frame line)

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Fuji developed something to improve electronic frame lines since the X-Pro1 was released. It will help cement the X-Pro2 as the top of the line Fuji X camera.

[macabee]

Try looking through the EVF on a bright sunny day, then look through the OVF!

[GuillaumeL]

To me, looking through an optical viewfinder vs an EVF is a bit like looking at a printed photo vs the same image on a computer screen.

 

OVF is more natural and seamless. Just like you said, you don't get this weird feeling of something artificial standing between you and the scene and that slight strain on your eyes due to backlit display. Plus rangefinder-like OVFs show a little bit more than what's going to be in the frame, allowing you to anticipate for moving subjects coming in.

 

EVF on the other hand can be better in very low light and you see exactly what the sensor sees in terms of depth of field and color/exposure rendition.

 

I wouldn't say that the lack of an OVF is a deal breaker for me but having one is definitely a big plus. It adds that much more versatility to my toolbox. I guess the X100 / XPro series are ideal in that regard since you get the best of both worlds at the flick of a switch !