HEIF / HEIC IMAGE FORMAT

[K PRETHVIRAJ]

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Hoping to see Fujifilm support shooting in HEIF / HEIC image format or introduce a ability to export in HEIF / HEIC image format in "Fujifilm x raw studio software" . canon has implemented shooting in HEIF / HEIC format with 1dx mark 3 , so even though they did it first , i hope to see Fujifilm implement it as soon as possible ,because of the advantages of that image format over jpg . it's not difficult to implement actually ,since it's the still version of HEVC ,same way jpg is like a still version of H.264 .  the major advantage of using HEIF / HEIC format is the images has more bit depth ,jpg only has 8 bit color meanwhile HEIF / HEIC format can support up to 16 bit color which is like having the color range of RAW file . the next big advantage is the size ,a 10mb HEIF / HEIC file has better quality ,color depth ,details etc... also less artifacts , than a 20MB jpg file ,both jpg and HEIF exported from the same raw file . also if this image format is implemented in-camera like canon 1dx mark 3 , that means you can shoot twice the amount of picture with the same buffer size compared to jpg  ( x pro-3 79 frames jpg only, xt-30 79 frames jpg only , xs-10 81 frames jpg only ) if the HEIF format is used (x pro-3 158 frames heic only , xt-30 158 frames heic only , xs-10  162 frames heic only ) with current buffer size itself we can capture twice the number of images at the max burst speed of the camera .also HEIF / HEIC format is actually better optimized for burst shooting mode ,so you will more likely get the max burst speed of a camera in all real world situations. so i hope that i mentioned the basic reason why we need Fujifilm to implement HEIF / HEIC format in-camera or at least in "Fujifilm x raw studio" as early as possible . please share this topic ,support , and send feedback to FUJIFILM to implement this image format in the Fujifilm devices and software's . i really hope that everyone will support this matter ,which will benefit everyone who uses Fujifilm devices , to a great extent . also if anyone is concerned about the compatibility of HEIF / HEIC formats (there is a lot of articles in internet saying there is compatibility issues or can't open in windows etc.. But that's actually past issues) . the current situation is it's fully compatible in windows starting with windows 10 ,it's natively supported in mac os and ios 11 and above , also natively supported in android , also you can edit HEIF / HEIC files in adobe software's , luminar , capture one etc. so i am hoping everyone who use Fujifilm devices , to follow up this matter till it's implemented , have a great day ahead ! 

Edited December 26, 2020 by K PRETHVIRAJ
SPELLING MISTAKES

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[mdm]

23 hours ago, K PRETHVIRAJ said:

 i really hope that everyone will support this matter ...

First, I keep my images either as raw or as prints and second I couldn't understand what your problem is.

[K PRETHVIRAJ]

4 minutes ago, mdm said:

First, I keep my images either as raw or as prints and second I couldn't understand what your problem is.

Your reply clearly depicts that you didn't read the post completely before replying . Please read it completely before replying . have a nice day !

[mdm]

I've read your post and consider it spam.

[K PRETHVIRAJ]

Just now, mdm said:

I've read your post and consider it spam.

I don't know why you are reacting like this to a meaningful post , about a image format implementation which can replace jpg , which other camera manufacturers are starting to implement , and even apple implemented in all their devices . This is different from raw , it's the replacement for jpg ,not raw .i hope you know that jpg is implemented in 1992 , and it's time to switch to new format which has more color depth ,half the size ,more details , less artifact's and double the burst shooting performance . it's like opposing ,4k or 8k or newer codecs like HEVC. anyway have a nice day . please don't slam others words as spam without atleast verifying what they say . have a nice day ahead !

[mdm]

Well, blaming barebone OS that it's not fully supported some specific data formats is like complaining that living in the empty house is not comfortable enough. There are image, video, sound, etc editors intended for that.

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[K PRETHVIRAJ]

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22 minutes ago, mdm said:

Well, blaming barebone OS that it's not fully supported some specific data formats is like complaining that living in the empty house is not comfortable enough. There are image, video, sound, etc editors intended for that.

if more users request ,the r&d focus on that .that's why i made a post so more will request the feature ,which in turn will make r&d focus on implementing the feature. it's not complaining , i believe it's called feedback/feature request ,and that's how companies knows on to which to focus more . as i observed fujifilm always implemented what users requested . so that's the reason i created the post ,so when it's implemented ,everyone who use fujifilm ,can be benefitted from new and advanced image format . i am guessing that you're gravely misunderstood of my motives and thought that i am complaining like unfair customer who doesn't appreciate whatever i get ,my friend i can assure you that ,i am not like that , so don't get worried and reply rudely to my post always . have a nice day and be happy always , and if possible please help me gather more support for this matter ,so r&d will give more importance to this feature and fast forward it , so when it's implemented ,you too can reap the benefits. 

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[9.V.III]

HEIF support should be Fuji's #1 priority.
 

JPEG is seriously obsolete compared to the new format and it's a real shame that we don't have options to shoot with Fuji in HEIF right now.

[K PRETHVIRAJ]

1 minute ago, 9.V.III said:

HEIF support should be Fuji's #1 priority.
 

JPEG is seriously obsolete compared to the new format and it's a real shame that we don't have options to shoot with Fuji in HEIF right now.

Fujifilm always implement what majority users request , so the only obstacle in getting this feature very fast is gaining the support of user's , to make the users understand the advantages of HEIC/HEIF over jpeg , which is a lot , the 16bit color depth of HEIC/HEIF ,is alone enough to make a enthusiastic photographer to voice for the new format's implementation ,but it even has many more advantages .so as soon as More users understand the relevance of this and they send feedback , Fujifilm will surely implement it very soon .as i observed Fujifilm always acted according to majority of users feedback and opinions .so i hope majority of the users understand the relevance and send feedback to Fujifilm . Have a great day !

[jerryy]

Watch the pro video world to see if this format will catch on or not. They pretty much push the standards that make it.

We have been here before, many times. Check into jpeg2000, some of the old SGI stuff, etc. All of these are “better” than jpeg, and are still around, but failed to knock off jpeg. The upcoming JPEG-XL format looks to make sure it keeps camera manufacturers in the jpg camp. We shall see.

[K PRETHVIRAJ]

2 hours ago, jerryy said:

Watch the pro video world to see if this format will catch on or not. They pretty much push the standards that make it.

We have been here before, many times. Check into jpeg2000, some of the old SGI stuff, etc. All of these are “better” than jpeg, and are still around, but failed to knock off jpeg. The upcoming JPEG-XL format looks to make sure it keeps camera manufacturers in the jpg camp. We shall see.

thank you very much for your valuable opinion ,i'll surely go and watch that (can you give me the link to that site) . also camera manufacturer's already started transition into HEIF/HEIC , since many camera manufacturers already have shared license in HEIF/HEIC codec since the beginning of it's development . there's actually no doubt that "it will be implemented" , but we just need to gather more user's attention to this ,to send feedback to fujifilm ,so they'll implement it sooner , so we don't have to wait till all other brands implement it .canon has already implemented it in newer models and other brands will also implement soon when their users start sending feedback after watching the advantage's those cameras have while shooting in HEIF/HEIC format over the jpeg . but i am also sure that jpg won't go out , it will stay ,like other old image and video formats ,it will be replaced slowly only ,because many people have a mentality of sticking with the familiar things until it's extremely outdated and they start to run into lack of support for that format in newer software's etc.. or slowly switch to the new format only when majority has already switched to newer ,it's always like that ,so the transition might be slow . but we can actually make the implementation quicker than other brands at least , so we can enjoy it's benefits ,rather than wait for it while watching other brand cameras utilizing it's advantages . so spread the word , gather more support and send feedback ,canon already started implementing , other camera brands will soon implement , apple has implemented long ago , also all operating systems and most editing software's including adobe ,topaz ,capture one ,luminar etc... is compatible with this format . so it's always good to have the better image format in our camera's too ASAP . so i wish you a great day ahead . let's send feedback ,because fujifilm always listen to their users ! 

Edited January 1 by K PRETHVIRAJ

[jerryy]

I think you have misunderstood ... pro world means professional world, as in watch to see what the professional video folks do.

Canon announced support for the standard back in 2019, but has not made much of it in regards as having it being a big selling point.

Something to consider, Apple has been pushing this in part because it helps them with file size management on their pads and phones. But go to their computers and do a screen capture. Even in their latest cutting edge beta versions of their operating software, the screen capture is stored as a png file, not as a heif. Disk space on those computers comes at a premium, so it would make sense for them to use the newer format, but they do not.

[jerryy]

To expand on that a bit, this type of support is different than trying to convince Fujifilm to add a feature to a button or dial — something that only affects Fujifilm made cameras.This affects the entire still and motion film industry. Broadly speaking, there are three parts: Software, Hardware, and — this is the trickiest one — Licensing. If any of the three parts is too onerous, the idea will not move forward. Look at the individual frames of a movie, whether it be on a dvd, a blu-ray or streaming. A lot of those are jpeg or similar. Those frames have to be displayable on the receiving hardware, so that means the software has to be capable of doing its part, the hardware can help as it is running a specialized algorithm to decode the data, and the licensing that allows those two parts to operate has to come with terms that the manufacturer can afford. That is just on the playback end. The encoding end has the same problems. 

Right now, there are very few equipment manufacturers that build machines that can stream movies or play dvds or blu-rays that have the frames encoded in the new format. The slightly older ones simply cannot. So the world will have to buy all new equipment to take part.

Hence, watch what the professional video world does.

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[K PRETHVIRAJ]

14 hours ago, jerryy said:

To expand on that a bit, this type of support is different than trying to convince Fujifilm to add a feature to a button or dial — something that only affects Fujifilm made cameras.This affects the entire still and motion film industry. Broadly speaking, there are three parts: Software, Hardware, and — this is the trickiest one — Licensing. If any of the three parts is too onerous, the idea will not move forward. Look at the individual frames of a movie, whether it be on a dvd, a blu-ray or streaming. A lot of those are jpeg or similar. Those frames have to be displayable on the receiving hardware, so that means the software has to be capable of doing its part, the hardware can help as it is running a specialized algorithm to decode the data, and the licensing that allows those two parts to operate has to come with terms that the manufacturer can afford. That is just on the playback end. The encoding end has the same problems. 

Right now, there are very few equipment manufacturers that build machines that can stream movies or play dvds or blu-rays that have the frames encoded in the new format. The slightly older ones simply cannot. So the world will have to buy all new equipment to take part.

Hence, watch what the professional video world does.

any cameras which can record in HEVC already has the ability to shoot in HEIF/HEIC format ,also any brands who has HEVC license already has HEIF/HEIC license , and any device which can play HEVC video files is compatible with HEIF/HEIC format ,even though older operating systems (windows 8.1 and below ,android pie and below) needs to install a codec pack ,which is actually free and they too are compatible with HEIF/HEIC format.  so as far as i observed majority of devices is or can be made compatible with HEIF/HEIC format just by installing the codec pack and in case of cameras , if the majority of users request , it can be implemented as a firmware update ,actually very easily to camera's which can shoot in HEVC . also as far as i observed and read the articles etc.. most brands will at least include the ability to shoot in HEIC/HEIF in the very near future and the new canon cameras already has that . thanks for pointing out the licensing part . also please let me know if there is any other factors like licensing ,which i failed to mention in my post , so that i can check those and write about their status ! . thanks a lot ,wish you a great day ahead !

[B7W]

Quote

Hoping to see Fujifilm support shooting in HEIF / HEIC image format or introduce a ability to export in HEIF / HEIC image format in "Fujifilm x raw studio software"

+1, I really want to see 10 bits images.

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[BobJ]

If I want to have the full colour and bit depth that my camera can record I use RAW. If I then want to preserve all of that I work with 16 bit TIFF. What would I want HEIF for? 

[K PRETHVIRAJ]

9 hours ago, BobJ said:

If I want to have the full colour and bit depth that my camera can record I use RAW. If I then want to preserve all of that I work with 16 bit TIFF. What would I want HEIF for? 

If we don't shoot many pictures and doesn't have to share those or doesn't have a device with a 10bit display or have a ton of storage and a super high-speed internet... We wouldn't need to use heic/heif image format 😊 . But let's say i go on a sponsored trip and after i reach back i was told to send the image's in a easily viewable format ( so not raw ) ,  and they want to see in good screen ( which has 10 bit capabilities like most new screens have, even many phone's have 10bit nowadays  and newer will surely have ) so should i sent 1000 tiff files each of those files are 120MB or will i sent 10MB sized heif/heic files ....?   I would only sent heic/heif files .. because huge size difference even though heif/heic files currently used are 10 bit, the file format can actually support upto 16 bit... And yes ! It's a lossy format , so it won't have the same details as a raw files.... But I don't see anyone using raw files exclusively for viewing, sharing, publishing etc... So RAW format won't be replaced by any other.... But heic/ heif is a replacement for jpg not RAW... And heif/heic files do better than jpg in every use case... Also takes less space and support more color depth and details... Also a Fujifilm RAW file is average 56MB .... But a 16bit tiff file of the same file is 120MB.... So I don't think everyone would use a tiff file for regular viewing experience... I use it only to move the editing to Lightroom and it uses a lot of space... Because as most people... I take a lot of pictures.... And storage is a premium...it won't take much time to run out of storage if you save images in tiff format..... Rather than jpg or it's next better format heic/heif etc....  So as i said before , if you have a super high-speed internet to send 1000 images to others... (Also they have high-speed internet to download those without waiting long) and you have more than 10tb of storage.. then it's fine you can use tiff , i would too.. and a faster computer/phone/device to view them as fast as we view a jpg or heic/heif files... The ease of use is the idea behind innovation and improvements in technology and that's the reason why everyone uses the newer technologies... I do see many people who like old technology and doesn't want to adapt the new technology quicker... I understand ... That's why i bought a Fujifilm camera rather than other brands , because i didn't want the modern boring modern plain black design cameras from other brands... I wanted something which had a pleasing vintage looks and the dials ( also that I don't have to look at the screen and go into the menu's and change settings etc.. always)... ( Fujifilm cameras have that vintage looks and feel with ease of use  in mind... Also the modern technology inside.. so it's like best of both worlds) So i am not an early adopter in certain cases.. but i know many are late adopters... I understand... It's due to the usual workflow... And new things used to have some issues and the issues are a headache in the regular workflow , thus we like to keep using what is already working well rather than trying newly improved version of those .. but when we actually try the newly improved version and if it works well we will automatically shift to it... Realizing it's advantages and then you'll find that it's useful for a lots of purpose and it makes things easier to do... Like sending the files to others or storing more of it in a small space or viewing in a broader range of Colors.. etc... So when you start using it in your regular workflow... You will realize it's advantages and benefits.. wish you a good day ahead.. !

Edited August 25 by K PRETHVIRAJ

[BobJ]

I can't see a much need for anyone to send 1000 images. Possibly for an image library? The main point of the new format is that is a container. It can hold all sorts of files including, for example, audio and video. It has better compression but I doubt the image file size is smaller than jpeg because of the extra bit depth. It cannot give better detail but it will give better colour accuracy. There is no printer that I know of that can take advantage of more than 8 bits per channel though and although we specialists do have 10 bit monitors, for stills only Photoshop can take advantage so far. Lightroom, for example, is still 8 bit. Additionally there are no cameras at the moment, other than exotica like Phase One, that have more than 14 bits in the d to a convertor. So I think the new formats are of no real interest to a stills photographer at this time. Video may be a different  story. JPEG XL may be more likely to become the new standard.

 

[K PRETHVIRAJ]

3 hours ago, BobJ said:

I can't see a much need for anyone to send 1000 images. Possibly for an image library? The main point of the new format is that is a container. It can hold all sorts of files including, for example, audio and video. It has better compression but I doubt the image file size is smaller than jpeg because of the extra bit depth. It cannot give better detail but it will give better colour accuracy. There is no printer that I know of that can take advantage of more than 8 bits per channel though and although we specialists do have 10 bit monitors, for stills only Photoshop can take advantage so far. Lightroom, for example, is still 8 bit. Additionally there are no cameras at the moment, other than exotica like Phase One, that have more than 14 bits in the d to a convertor. So I think the new formats are of no real interest to a stills photographer at this time. Video may be a different  story. JPEG XL may be more likely to become the new standard.

 

I guess you are not up to date with newer technologies... So i am not gonna waste my time collecting the details and sharing with you... I started this post since it was a helpful one , when it will be implemented... For majority... But i am not gonna have time to argue with anyone for a image format which isn't owned by me..lol.... When you have free time please check how much color bit depth your Fujifilm camera raw files have.... You might understand that most cameras does take pictures in more than 10 bit... After a checking a few more camera raw files... the cameras released after 2009 would be the ones to check.... please don't check cameras from 1980's cause they're film....rofl... ( Well there was FUJIX DS-1P in 1989 the first commercially available fully digital camera , but don't check the bit depth in it ) Your comment was nice , it gave me a smile.. thank you ... But please check the recent technologies... But you already know jpeg xl... So you do know things... That means... You have a motive against the format.... Consider that you won the argument... Have a nice day !. I won't be replying further.

Edited August 26 by K PRETHVIRAJ

[BobJ]

 I know exactly how much bit depth my camera has. If you actually read my last reply you will see that I quoted 14 bits for raw. When processing raw you can take full advantage of this input. The formats you are talking about are output formats that are produced either in the camera or by post processing software from the 12, or usually now, 14 bits from the A to D converter. As things stand at the moment jpeg xl seems to me to be the best bet for stills, although I could be wrong. We will have to wait and see. As I said, video may be a different  matter.