Jump to content

Leica Monochom envy


Recommended Posts

I can't help but feel envious when I hear such praise about Leica being so "innovative" and "daring". Leica releases a camera with no screen and it's marvel for those that want one less distraction while photographing.

Fuji does a similar move with the X-pro 3 and it's divisive, even though you still get a screen if you don't want one.

That leads me to my main point that I still want Fuji to release a monochrome camera.

Sure, could I save up and buy Leica? Sure, but I think the Fuji system offers more to me than just price. I think they always have more value than leica in terms of features, and I think Fuji is more humble as a brand, where they don't flaunt their brand as a luxury class item. 

Anyway, I hope to see a monochrome sensor Fuji camera in the future. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

maxmax.com converts many Fujifilm cameras to monochrome. It's quite expensive, but probably not more than when Fujifilm would launch a monochrome themselves. Previously, Fujifilm managers stated that a monochrome is not to be expected any time.

As a former Leica owner (those film days) every time I pick up a Leica I'm tempted again. The Q2 monochrome will probably not be an exception. It's not made for people looking for features or value-for-money (though it holds fantastic value in the second-hand market) and in that respect its hard to compare with other brands. It's just like cars: you don't need a BMW to be happy, but it sure helps 😉 (for those who like cars)

Edited by Herco
Link to post
Share on other sites

One of my VERY best friends is a Leica Guy.  I know people say these Leica guys are stuck up, and hung up on gear but not my good friend.  He's a photographer.  Has taken, dropped, had repaired, shot, got wet, etc EVERY one of his six Leica bodies - including the Monochrome.  The Leica store in NYC LOVE him.  He walked in last year for a Leica branded polarizer, and walked with their only cop of of a think a 90mm lens that had just come out.  It was five figures deep that one~.  He also has several 80 megapixel + higher Hassy medium formats with some serious glass.   Last Christmas he bought for each of his three sons a new Leica body and a 50mm Summicron (?) lens!  Like I said - BIG BUCKS.  He just. bought the 60 megapixel S2 MF Leica as well a few months ago - And guess what? He actually ENVIES my fuji 50r and my APC cameras!  He truly loves them but I think he's afraid of switching at this point.  

Long story short, I do believe that FUJI will be out with a medium format Monochrome by next summer or fall.  If they do, I and my friend will be first in line!

 

Edited by jlmphotos
Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be surprised if Fuji would launch a monochrome version of their GFX-line. Unlike Leica, Fuji doesn’t have their own facility to manufacture image sensors and to my knowledge there are no cropped medium format monochrome out on the market. Of course they could have something custom-made at one of the manufacturers, but that would be very expensive given the small market. APS-C sized monochrome sensors however are available (esp. for astrophotography), so a monochrome X-camera might be more likely. Of course you can always go to maxmax.com and have your GFX converted. That however only involves stripping the color array filter. Optimizing the sensor lenses (as Leica does a/o) isn’t possible in a retrofit.

Last September I was in Wetzlar at the Leica factory and I had the opportunity to take an M10-R and an M10 Monochrome for a two hour spin around the block and in their studio. The results I took home were amazing in terms of IQ. Both cameras are stellar performers but no matter how I edited the M10-R files in Capture One to monochrome, I couldn’t reach the M10 Monochrome IQ in terms of tonality and cleanness. Amazing... but it comes at a price too. And to be honest, you have to pixelpeep to really see the difference.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

I would love to see a monochrome camera from fuji. I have debated having one of my Fuji’s converted but would rather have the real deal. How hard expensive would it be. Just tell the people who manufacture the sensor to leave off the color filters and etc. It’s my understanding that is basically all the conversion s do. Looks like fuji could at least offer  one at special order. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...
19 hours ago, Goonerjr said:

I am not informed on this subject. Would be interested on opinions/facts. I only shoot jpegs. Why is a Leica monochrome better than a fuji xe or pro shooting across jpegs or w b&w processing. 

It's quite a difference. As a basis the Leica Q2 already has a very good 47Mp full-frame sensor paired with one of the best lenses ever made (a 28mm Summilux). By leaving out the color array filter on the sensor and optimizing the sensor lenses for monochrome images, you get an incredibly sharp and contrast rich monochrome image. Without the color array filter you also boost the low light performance and expand the dynamic range of the sensor by approx. 2 stops.

In the meanwhile, I couldn't resist and purchased a Q2 Monochrome. I'm not disappointed. Though my X-Pro produces very nice Acros files, the Q2 Monochrome is a different league (also in price to be fair). I usually shoot monochrome for my personal work, but to be able to shoot at ISO25000 and have files as clean as an X-Pro at ISO1600 is amazing. At normal ISO levels, the level of detail and the tonality of the Q2 files is stunning. Both for the jpegs out-of-camera and the DNG raw files via Capture One.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am lucky to have the m246 monochrome. I also love Fuji gear. One of the reason monochrome is so different is because the removal of color array. Think of those picture of color array of traditional sensor and x trans you end up needing 4 pixels to represent a color. This is very simplified explanation and that means your resolution is reduced. Secondly less filter more light hits the sensor and the same sensor without the color array will be cleaner at each iso level. 
 

the only issue with conversion is that the lens are designed for light to go through a certain thickness of sensor stack. I found this early on when adapting my m lens to Sony a7, Fuji x10 and my em5. Leica has the thinnest sensor stack because they want their camera to work with their lenses designed for film. 
 

definitely interested if Fuji comes out with a monochrome!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...

I’ve had a few Leica and returned to fuji... Leica electronic cameras are great until you have a problem! They’re lovely customer service but slow, as in 3 month repair times. I’d rather not have that subconsciously  niggling me whenever I pack or use my camera.  Appreciate I may be over worried, but cameras do break!

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/11/2021 at 2:06 PM, Macaz said:

I’ve had a few Leica and returned to fuji... Leica electronic cameras are great until you have a problem! They’re lovely customer service but slow, as in 3 month repair times. I’d rather not have that subconsciously  niggling me whenever I pack or use my camera.  Appreciate I may be over worried, but cameras do break!

I guess it depends heavily on where you are located. In all my 35+ years with Leica (I've always had one or two) I rarely had to fall back on their Customer Support. But when I did, I directly reverted to their Wetzlar office in Germany and they've always been great and swift.

I hear similar stories from colleagues in the US re. Fujifilm Professional Service (FPS) over there, but here in Europe FPS is a bit of a joke. I have (of have had) various Fuji cameras and more than 10 lenses but the process of repair and service is tedious and costly. Even with an FPS subscription (although it is for free). And when you ask for a temp replacement, they never seem to have one... 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/11/2020 at 3:07 AM, Sir Grey said:

I can't help but feel envious when I hear such praise about Leica being so "innovative" and "daring". Leica releases a camera with no screen and it's marvel for those that want one less distraction while photographing.

Fuji does a similar move with the X-pro 3 and it's divisive, even though you still get a screen if you don't want one.

That leads me to my main point that I still want Fuji to release a monochrome camera.

Sure, could I save up and buy Leica? Sure, but I think the Fuji system offers more to me than just price. I think they always have more value than leica in terms of features, and I think Fuji is more humble as a brand, where they don't flaunt their brand as a luxury class item. 

Anyway, I hope to see a monochrome sensor Fuji camera in the future. 

The big advantage on the Fuji is the screen can be hidden or if you prefer 'protected', but at least one has the screen when one is convenient. A screen-less digital camera? No thanks. A digital camera without an EVF or OVF AND a screen - no thanks. Give me both anytime.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

Leica prices have skyrocketed. $9000 for the M10 (without lens please) and $6200 for the Q2 !!!

There was a time when one could get the M6 + Summicron 35mm f:2.0 ASPHERICAL for $3300.

Fujifilm for me any time !

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, SBK said:

Leica prices have skyrocketed. $9000 for the M10 (without lens please) and $6200 for the Q2 !!!

There was a time when one could get the M6 + Summicron 35mm f:2.0 ASPHERICAL for $3300.

Fujifilm for me any time !

Leica is 'victim' of the US trade taxes imposed on German products. Here in Switzerland Leica prices are a lot more agreeable. There isn't a day that goes by when I don't cherish my Q2 Monochrome. The 'victim' of that -unfortunately- is my X-Pro2...

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not cheaper when buying in Germany. Below are screenshots from the Leica store in Berlin Germany and from B&H , USA. I put the two cameras in the cart just for comparison sake. At today's exchange rate, 14050 Euros = $16720, which makes it more expensive to buy in Germany.

2003261221_Screenshotfrom2021-04-1006-28-23.png.b2650bff9477c28f7a3846366738d69a.png

421289405_Screenshotfrom2021-04-1006-31-42.png.d2d6da86d5794f4b49322a7f6d7f6fb6.png

1211551783_Screenshotfrom2021-04-1006-26-34.png.5175907d14f74971d62d964410d2faf1.png

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/10/2021 at 3:39 PM, SBK said:

It's not cheaper when buying in Germany. Below are screenshots from the Leica store in Berlin Germany and from B&H , USA. I put the two cameras in the cart just for comparison sake. At today's exchange rate, 14050 Euros = $16720, which makes it more expensive to buy in Germany.

2003261221_Screenshotfrom2021-04-1006-28-23.png.b2650bff9477c28f7a3846366738d69a.png

421289405_Screenshotfrom2021-04-1006-31-42.png.d2d6da86d5794f4b49322a7f6d7f6fb6.png

1211551783_Screenshotfrom2021-04-1006-26-34.png.5175907d14f74971d62d964410d2faf1.png

 

Can't argue with math... ;-). But the difference is made by the volatile exchange rate which we don't have. On top of that, when you walk into a Leica store here in Switzerland or Germany, you're not paying the MSRP anyway. My Q2 Monochrome was less than EUR 5k.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Herco said:

Can't argue with math... ;-). But the difference is made by the volatile exchange rate which we don't have. On top of that, when you walk into a Leica store here in Switzerland or Germany, you're not paying the MSRP anyway. My Q2 Monochrome was less than EUR 5k.

For Leica, it's not bad at all actually. Considering that, for such price, you have the Summilux 28mm f:1.7 ASPH. with it. If one looks in the Leica M-mount Summicron 28mm f:2 ASPH., the lens alone is already at $5k and the Summilux 1.4 is at $7.5k (see screenshot below). So for both body and the Summilux at less than 5k EUR, that's pretty decent price when you have a FF sensor, 47MP ...

I don't know about the digital Leicas but i owned and M6 and Summicron 35mm before. The colors shot with Fujifilm Sensia were above my other brands' lenses. The black and white came out really nice too.

855420616_Screenshotfrom2021-04-1308-04-17.png.8e6cf3245c8cff06e2c7e5fb4ad58032.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

Compared to the separate lenses, the Q2 is certainly a good deal in Leica's world. Without turning this into a Leica forum, I can confirm that the current digital Leica's still have amazing colors. I was a bit disappointed with the M8, but since the Q, the SL and the M10 they've found their consistency back. What's particularly striking is how easy the raw files are in post. As for the Q2 Monochrome, I've never seen such beautiful and high quality B&W images from a consumer camera.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Herco said:

Compared to the separate lenses, the Q2 is certainly a good deal in Leica's world. Without turning this into a Leica forum, I can confirm that the current digital Leica's still have amazing colors. I was a bit disappointed with the M8, but since the Q, the SL and the M10 they've found their consistency back. What's particularly striking is how easy the raw files are in post. As for the Q2 Monochrome, I've never seen such beautiful and high quality B&W images from a consumer camera.

I do miss the B&W pics, and still have my B&W lab. I tried B&W with my X100F, they were ok on the screen, maybe i should try to print them out to see if they look better.

Do you still use Fujifilm cameras ?

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, SBK said:

I do miss the B&W pics, and still have my B&W lab. I tried B&W with my X100F, they were ok on the screen, maybe i should try to print them out to see if they look better.

Do you still use Fujifilm cameras ?

Nowadays I only use my X-Pro2 with a few lenses for personal work. I really love that camera. It sits right next to the Q2 in my bag. For professional work after 6 years Fujifilm, I moved to Nikon Z. Next to that I continue to use the H6D in studio and on site. I’ve tried the GFX (both 50 and 100) for a while but still prefer the Hassy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Posts

    • Welcome to our forum!
    • Hi Chris, I've had the same experience with my 15mm 4.5f Voigtlander. VERY soft images outside the center, moved on to the Fujinon 18mm 2f and perfectly happy. Cheers,
    • mornin' every one,  New to the forum and the X system. Camera collector since the '90s. I've been swapping old "analogic" stuff for "old" digital stuff. So I ended up with a X-T1 and a X-Pro1, with 27mm and 18mm (small ) and a few adapters to play with the Legacy lenses. Still adapting to the mirrorless ecosystem 😞 Meh...!
    • I am thinking of adapting my sigma 17-50 f2.8 canon ef-s lens on Fuji xt3 via a viltrox speed booster. My biggest confusion is that will this effect focal length and light gathering of my lens?  An speed booster does so when adapting full frame lens on APS-C bodies. But what if I want to adapt an APS-C Lens on another APS-C body via an speed booster? 
    • Hi Jozzef, same with my one. The pictures at 16mm are not as sharp, as they should be. I given the lens back. Others say it is a good universal lens. Maybe some has problems from production side? 
×
×
  • Create New...