Fujifilm X-PRO2 rumors

[milandro]

you can say that again, wait a minute, you did! 

[ShutterNot]

#1 - Fuji was very much aiming for December 15, with Jan 15 as the backup date if they couldn't meet the schedule.

 

 

 

The idea of that happening has been going through my "wishfull" mind.

 

Wouldn't it be grand if it were so.

[danwells]

There is one further complication, the consolidation of the mirrorless market and the camera market in general. There were once as many as ten (Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus, Samsung, Nikon, Canon, Samsung, Pentax, Leica) pursuing mirrorless. A few of those made their own sensors, but Sony sold sensors to Fuji, Leica, Pentax (APS-C) and possibly Olympus and Nikon (smaller sizes). There were also four DSLR players (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Pentac).

Today's mirrorless market outside of Asia (where Canon and Samsung have footholds) has four players plus the MUCH smaller Leica. The DSLR market adds the two major players and the niche Pentax. Sony's mirrorless line has bifurcated into very inexpensive APS-C models supported with a limited line of cheap lenses and the successful midrange to extremely high-end full-frame A7 series. Olympus and Panasonic are using a unique sensor size (they always have been), leaving Fuji the only serious player in APS-C mirrorless above the bargain basement. The success of the A7 series has probably shelved plans for an A7000 (where do they price it, when you can get an A7 for $900)? The A6000 successor will probably sell for an X- A2 level price (it'll have a better sensor, video and viewfinder (which the X-A2 lacks entirely), but lousy build quality and lenses).

Additionally, Nikon may be striking long-term sensor deals with Samsung, depriving Sony of their big DSLR sensor customer - they still have Pentax, but Pentax is a fraction the size..

 

This has both positive and negative implications for Fuji. On the plus side, it now seems very unlikely that Sony would withhold any sensor other than full-frame from Fuji. Sony probably has a higher net profit on a sensor sold externally that goes in a $1500+ camera than they do on an internal sale for a <$600 camera. Even if Fuji wanted to go full-frame, they'd probably find the A7rII sensor off-limits (Sony's not about to risk sales of a $3200 camera), but I can't imagine Sony saying "you can't have the IMX 271 - we want it for $500 bodies, and will turn down business going into $1600 bodies to get it". Sony can probably make the same profit (lets say $100) selling an IMX 271 to Fuji that they can selling an ENTIRE A6000 successor, and they put much less into it.

 

The negative implication is where has Sony's incentive to develop APS-C sensors gone? Previously, their business was themselves
(including cameras like the NEX-7 and A77II), Nikon and then feed a few to Fuji and Pentax plus an occasional sensor to Leica on the side. If they don't seem to be interested in APS-C themselves above the low end (which won't fund development - low-end cameras tend to use old sensors, not custom low-end sensors), and the rumors about Nikon and Samsung are correct, their market has become Fuji, Pentax and Leica, plus their own $500 cameras. If Nikon keeps using a lot of Sony, we're fine, because Nikon will need sensors for the D7xxx line, and maybe even  for a line above that (Nikon DOES have room for one more camera between the D7200 and D610). If not, I'd be surprised to see much attention paid to APS-C on Sony's part...

[benjaminthomson]

The market is also completely different from 4 years ago. How many people are willing to shell out $2k for a Fuji X-Pro 2 or $1.5K for an X-T2 when compared to the Sony A7 II which will be even further reduced by that time.

[Tom]

Can't wait to see the first pictures of the Pro2. I'm still concerned that Fuji reduced size. Fuji tends to shrink everything.

[umad?]

A number of months back the rumor was that the a7000 sensor was the hold-up. It was said that Sony was willing to sell the sensor to Fuji, but only after they had first crack at it for their own camera for six months. 

 

That has been spreading like a virus, but there isn't even one reliable source anyone could quote on this.

 

There isn't "Sony". Sony doesn't build cameras, Sony Imaging does. And Sony doesn't produce sensor. Sony Devices does. Those are parts of Sony that each work (mostly) on it's on. But it gets better. Everything sensor related (and Devices is just that) was/is spun out into a new company: Sony Semiconductor Solutions. And they are raising 4 billion dollars to invest.

 

If there are any special deals for Sony Imaging, they are small - Sony SS is making the money and all the others parts now have to show, that they are profitable on their own. If not, they get axed. 

[mdm]

... all the others parts now have to show, that they are profitable on their own. If not, they get axed. 

 

That explains Sony's Imaging rush for specs.

[benjaminthomson]

Can't wait to see the first pictures of the Pro2. I'm still concerned that Fuji reduced size. Fuji tends to shrink everything.

Based on the x-e2 and x100t being almost identical to their predecessors?

[benjaminthomson]

-

[milandro]

There is a very good chance that looks and dimensions won’t be altered all that much.

 

Once a brand creates a recognizable product's image, generally it is better to stay with it rather than chasing the illusion to be able to fulfill everyone wants and whims ( I’ve carefully avoided to use the word needs because for most of us cameras are a fun surplus luxury object, few really “need” any such thing as a new camera) 

 

There is simply no way to please every single potential buyer. That’s why they have so many (in my opinion perhaps already too many) models each one of which is attempting to cover that many bases and market segments.

 

Despite that Fuji will always please some and displease some others.

 

It’s the nature of the beast.

 

Just over a month to wait. Relax, what’s done is done.

[danwells]

If the per pixel quality is similar to the existing models (or better), and the pixel count is up 50%, the image quality will be quite similar to the A7II (plain A7II, NOT the much more expensive A7RII), except at the highest ISOs. Full Frame only makes a ~ 1 stop difference over APS-C, and X-Trans plus Fuji's processing is good for 0.5 stop or so, leaving the intrinsic difference in IQ all of HALF A STOP.

The Fuji will be a much better made body, fun to shoot with a sensible set of controls as compared to the Sony's "computer with a lens and, MOST IMPORTANTLY, you are choosing between Sony's oversized lenses (many of which are also underwhelming, although there are some great ones) and the Fujinons - the best thought out lens lineup around. The A7II doesn't do the "take any DSLR lens, keeping native AF and IS" trick that the RII does - Maxxum lenses will autofocus, but not the (much more common) Canon or Nikon lenses.

I'd take a well  thought out X-Pro2 or X-T2 over an A7II any day - the major argument in the other direction is the Sony's IBIS (Fuji's faster lenses make up for Sony's DOF advantage, and IQ is probably very similar). What Fuji doesn't have an answer for (other than Sony's marketing) is the specialist A7RII and A7SII models. The image quality of an A7RII under ideal conditions exceeds that of anything short of medium format, and it takes any lens with pretty much native capabilities. In low light, nothing but an IR camera sees farther into darkness than the SII.These special models are expensive, and between the weight penalty of full frame and adapted lenses, a system is probably twice as heavy as a comparable Fuji system, but they DO have meaningful extra capabilities.

[rbelyell]

can someone explain 'lossless compression' because, like 'military intelligence' it seems contradictory on its face.

[mdm]

lossless compression - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lossless_compression

[umad?]

There are different ways to compression. Probably one of the most reasonable (I think both Canon and Nikon use similar ideas) is lossless JPEG. But don't think of this like the jpg image your camera also produces.

 

In short: you don't save every pixels exact values, but only the difference to the onces next to it. And since many pixels are pretty similar to those next to it, the values are smaller 

[jevidon]

I'll settle for improved resolution, highlights and shadows in the EVF, more accurate parallax correction in the OVF, faster focus with all lenses and higher resolution ( more pixels or whatever it takes ) in the sensor so long as it doesn't increase electronic noise..

The camera as it stands is otherwise an ideal compromise between a RF camera and an EVF camera in a size that accomodates comfortable handling without the cramped feeling of the smaller competition. I just hope it doesn't succumb to the one size fits all mentality that has produced most of the competing cameras.

[Patrick FR]

No IBIS: http://www.fujirumors.com/no-ibis-for-the-fujifilm-x-pro2-and-why-canikon-say-its-better-so-but-ois-vs-ibis-trusted-source/

[milandro]

Someone else’s dream shattered 

[mdm]

Anyway this particular dream had very shaky ground... a quick sands I would say.

[2.0]

OIS on the 50-140mm is just fantastic, here's handheld shoot i took last night:

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Exif: f/3.6 :: 1.1 sec :: 140mm :: ISO 400

 

This is a picture of a picture hanging on my wall, the distance is about 180cm, i'm standing and it' handheld! I love the Fujisystem!

[CRAusmus]

More and more the rumors are indicating that Fuji is staying loyal to the X-Pro1's customer base.

 

Good Job Fuji...

[umad?]

No IBIS? 

 

OMG!!!!111111oneoneeleven

 

 

Would be nice, but let's be honest: the X-Pro is (after the Leica M) probably the most pure camera that put's "photography over technology". I love how on the rumors page everyone is raging and complaining. I always thought that no IBIS on the Pro2 is a given. 

[danwells]

We can't tell Fuji what to make (they're building them now), but what do we all want to see in the X-Pro 2?

 

1.) How many people would buy an X-Pro 2 in the first place (assuming it has the best of reported specs) - no fantasy specs like full-frame, BUT it has a great new 24 MP sensor, AF significantly better than the X-T1, an improved hybrid VF, weathersealing, etc.?

 

2.) Would you still buy it if the OTHER specs were great, but it had the same old 16 MP sensor (not identical to the X-Pro 1, but X-T1 generation)? I wish there was something more concrete against this, other than the Magnum leak, because it worries me both that trusted sources don't mention it (in either direction) and that the X70 seems to be confirmed to use the old sensor.

 

3.) What if the Hybrid VF's gone, replaced by the Leica SL's spectacular EVF, but only an EVF (and the rear screen)?

 

4.) What if it has no weathersealing?

 

5.) What else matters to you - "I'm buying an X-Pro 2, but not if it doesn't have.../still has..."?

 

For me personally, I'd buy it in a second if all the specs come true (I have an X-Pro2-sized chunk of money sitting in my bank account waiting for it - there's even another chunk that says "XF 100-400" on it...).  I wouldn't buy it without weathersealing, but no huge deal - I'd just wait for the X-T2 that isn't far behind. If the 16 MP sensor shows up AGAIN, I'll start tearing my hair out, because it's not QUITE there for my largest print size, and I don't think Fuji's likely to reuse the sensor for the X-Pro 2 and then immediately replace it in the X-T2. Seeing it here means it's with us for another generation (and quite probably we'll never see a different conventional APS-C sensor from Fuji - they're counting on organic and/or MF in a few years"). I'd buy any X- Pro 2 that didn't LOSE any X-T1 feature other than the tilt screen (like weathersealing or the newer autofocus) and had a significantly improved sensor. The hybrid viewfinder actually isn't key to me - I'd welcome it, but buy just as quickly with the Leica SL SL finder, and only be a tiny bit disappointed if it was the X-T1 finder. I have big hands, so I hope it retains the basic X-Pro shape, which is an unusually small camera to be comfortable in larger hands (due to its height)...

[T-Man]

If the rumors are true regarding a new sensor with 1.3x crop factor, the attached file compares the effective focal lengths.

 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0wm891oris5g0df/Fujinon%20FL%20Comparison.jpg?dl=0

[johant]

 

 

If the rumors are true regarding a new sensor with 1.3x crop factor, the attached file compares the effective focal lengths.

I think that was an April fool's joke that kept living on.

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[T-Man]

I think that was an April fool's joke that kept living on.

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

 

Thank goodness that it was a joke. Just today fujirumors.com had a post about that. Whew!