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Fujifilm X-PRO2 rumors


Patrick FR

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I'd be very hard pressed to imagine Sony putting out a medium format camera, and especially to see them adequately supporting it with lenses (unless it was a "Texas RX1" equipped with a fixed slightly wide prime). Of their four present body lines, two are missing critical lenses (APS-C E-mount and APS-C A-mount), one is only usable at all because of old Minolta lenses, some of which Sony has reissued, others of which people find used (full-frame A-mount), and the last one is finally developing a lens lineup, plus it has flexibility with adapters (FE-mount). Sony has no medium format lens experience at all, and their partners at Zeiss have never done a medium format AF lens - they do have 40 years of Hasselblad V-series lenses, ending in the early 2000s. A medium format Sony, unless it was fixed lens, would have a VERY few (one or two) really nice Zeiss lenses, and, if it was a runaway hit, might eventually get a few more.

 

Fuji, on the other hand, would be well placed for such a project - they have only one lens line to support right now, instead of four primary lines (plus video variants of both FE and APS-C E-mount). They've made quite a few medium format lenses before, including a large role in the present Hasselblad lenses. They'd probably release a medium format camera with three primes and perhaps a zoom at introduction, and they'd have a plan to get to 6-8 lenses in a couple of years.

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Well, I am not sure that buying a camera is not an impulse buying. I think that for a large part of the potential market it would certainly be.

 

I’ve asked @Patrick FR to start a demographic poll on the forum to have a picture of the typical forum dweller ( I suppose that the forum ownership might greatly benefit from this for all sorts of reasons) and I am pretty sure that the resulting demographic data would show that the majority of the forum ( and of the Fuji market) are exactly people whom would be sensitive to spending their money in a way that it is influenced by seasonal spending patterns.

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I don't know about anybody else out there, but there is no such thing as an  $1800 impulse purchase for me. I have to plan for that kind of purchase and save my money.

 

I'm assuming the PRO 2 will sell for around that price.

 

I hear you.  I know very few people that have 1800 in cash that they can just drop on a dime (this of course is not including working professionals who have a budget for this).  It must be nice to have it though.  I saved for 18 mos. to buy my X-T1 and that money wasn't used for any holiday spending as it was earmarked for the T1 specifically.  That being said, I don't have a purchase planned for the Pro-2 at this time as I'm still fleshing out my kit.  Once I do that, I'll add a second body, but the jury is out as to which one it will be at the moment.

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I am sure that someone at Fuji has precise statistics showing that the majority of their customers are people who aren’t professional photographers and that own more than one camera and often more than one camera system.

 

This system wasn’t made for a pro and pretty many were sold from Harrods, a place where few pro’s ever bought their cameras. For this people you need to introduce the new camera before of December.

 

I am sure that Fuji looks at these customers very favorably.

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The average Fuji customer doesn't shop at Harrod's.  That's a ridiculous analogy to throw out there.  Can you name a photographer, working or hobbyist who doesn't own multiple systems?  No.  That line of thought makes no sense and isn't even relevant to the conversation.

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I suspect those were a tiny fraction of total sales - they go to two different groups of people - wealthy photographers who don't care what it costs, but they want it FAST and CONVENIENT (and they like the suitcase for storage). How wealty? Hasselblad once made a custom telephoto (for well over $100,000) for a Saudi prince who wanted to photograph birds using medium format. The prince actually used it, and he was a darned good wildlife photographer, too. The second group are camera COLLECTORS who will never take it out of the box.

A colleague who shoots a lot of Leica once joked to me that Leica could omit the sensor on half the cameras they sold, and the new owners would never know the difference - the problem is that they don't know which ones they could build without the sensor. Leica releases a whole bunch of collectors editions every year (and some of them are the only way to get a specific lens for a year or more). At least Fuji doesn't do that to us (how would any of us feel if the 100-400 came out tomorrow, but only in a $5000 box with an X-Pro 1 body in a special finish and another lens that many people already own) - no other way to get it until next summer? Leica's been known to do that.

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@danwells

 

of course the sales of a special model in limited series are a minority market, nevertheless, to acquire a window at Harrods is a huge commercial score for any brand. Makes people talk of you and ultimately sell cameras. 

 

Again, the majority of the photographers using any camera system are, obviously, people whom don’t really need to use any camera and are buyers of relatively luxurious items liek those who buy hi-fi or other things that most of us could do without.

 

Anyone who’s ever sold anything knows that these items are sold best before the holidays and not after.

 

I really would like to see @Patrick FR starting a poll to know who are the Fuji users. I have a pretty good hunch but I’d like to see it confirmed by data.

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The FUJI cameras are unique, look quite sexy, and they actually work quite well. Could be that Harrod's is just catering to more sophisticated, but not necessarily well to do clients. Wonder if they sell Leica, Nikon or any Canon ?

 

As to needing to use a camera. Who really needs to use a camera other than professional photographers. Of course that eliminates hobbyist, family snap shooters etc. whoe don't really NEED to use a camera but do for personal reasons.

 

Me personally - I'm retired and live on a fixed income. I am trying to get the cash for the PRO 2 together. I don't need the PRO 2, but if it delivers the goods, I will want it because photography is one of my hobbies. Capturing the beauty of life and nature the way I see it. It would be nice to have OVF/EVF, faster focus and greater dynamic range than my E-1.

 

In addition to photography, I enjoy music such as blues, certain bluegrass, country, folk, and a smattering of classical. For the music I use a a stereo system. Now I didn't realize that a hi-fi is a luxury. Didn't use to be. Of course I don't own a smart phone - can't afford the damn thing. Now there is a Luxury if ever there was one. A plain cell phone works fine - thank you.

 

I gotta say, I didn't know I was such an odd duck living in luxury because I enjoy the beauty of sound via music through REAL speakers.

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The majority of Fuji X users are those who do not want the build of Geoff Capes at his fittest to lug around and hold the camera.

 

The majority of Fuji X users are those who njoy using an aperture ring (as was the norm in the days of film)

 

The majority of Fuji X users are those who do not see why they should have to sell both kidneys for a few bodies and half a dozen lenses.

 

The majority of Fuji X users are those who do actually enjoy photography for photographies sake - not as a means of earning a fortune or becoming super famous...

 

There endeth my 2 penneth worth.

 

As for the X-Pro 2, well at this moment in time it has missed its moment as a result of me getting a 100T

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What I am saddened by about the Harrod's deal (and, much more so about similar things that Leica and Hasselblad have done - Fuji's one deal with Harrod's hasn't harmed the cameras being sold to people who actually use them for photography, while Hasselblad's relabeled Sonys HAVE distracted them from their real work in medium format). My preferred use of my X-T1 is landscape at various scales (below), and I'd love to see some more pixels in a camera that is just as nice to use (I have higher resolution cameras, but the X-T1 often finds itself with me on a hike, simply because it is such a great camera to shoot with.

 

What's important, though, isn't WHAT you photograph, but that a very high percentage of X cameras are used all the time to make photographs, because they are wonderful to use. I'd hate to see Fuji lose that to a collector market...

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In my mind ( twisted as it might be) a luxury is a hobby that costs money and you do for fun and that is not a strict necessity for your life. A way to indulge to please oneself.

 

As a kid I’ve heard a proverb which influenced my life henceforth : “ If you have two loaves of bread, sell one and buy roses for your heart”. The meaning of this phrase is easy. The first loaf are the necessities, you need those to live, the second loaf are things you don’t need for your physical life but things which make your life better.

 

I appreciate and value all those things because I understand the fact that if I can do this I am certainly privileged  and very fortunate compared to the so many people in the world who don’t have time and money for a hobby, a passion to cultivate.

 

I call all these things a luxury, because I respect them and understand that there are many more people on Earth who don’t have them than there are people who do.

 

My reference to the limited editions was simply to show that Fuji, like Leica ( but in a slightly cheaper segment), has more than a passing attention for introducing a product like this before the holidays because many of the customers are people who are likely to be buying a product like this as a present for themselves or someone else among their dear ones.

 

Indulging into buying a luxury product.

 

Having a certain experience with marketing myself, I set myself amongst these folks who would spend a sum of money to treat oneself to buy something which, strictly speaking, they don’t need to buy but something they want to own.

 

One could argue that the majority of Fuji users are, instead, all professionals who need this new camera (although they probably already have one or more) and any other part of the system for their livelihood. That might be true for some but, by and large, the majority camera users are doing this for fun and, not unusually, have cameras in manyfold already.

 

But maybe Fuji will introduce this in January, so people have one more month to save......... who knows? Does anyone?

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I guess I was defining a luxury as being something you can obtain without having to make sacrifices somewhere else.

 

 

One often forgets there are many that don't even have enough to meet the bare necessities of life to survive. I suppose in that sense, anything beyond that is a luxury. On the other hand, food for the soul is also important.

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How likely does a new sensor seem to Patrick and others in the know? I ask mainly because my X-T1 is already near-perfect, EXCEPT that its resolution is right on the edge for larger prints. Drop a really good X-Trans version of a 24+ MP sensor in that body, or in an updated X-Pro 1 body  (assuming that it doesn't lose any DR, color rendition or other positive characteristics of the present sensor), and you have a REALLY compelling camera. On the other hand, I can't see much Fuji could do to make another camera using the same sensor compelling. What feature, other than a new sensor, would cause people to upgrade? I wouldn't add an X-Pro 2 that was really just bringing the X-Pro 1 up to X-T1 standards...

 

One thing that makes getting this sensor right so important is that Fuji, unlike Nikon or especially Sony (similar to the Micro 4/3 crew, though) hangs on to a sensor forever. I'm assuming this is because the X-Trans filter makes switching sensors much harder.

 

While I may seem to be asking for new things, I'm asking primarily because Fuji is SO close to having the unequivocally best system on the market - at least in my opinion, nothing handles like a Fuji, and they have heir colors nailed ... Add some resolution to the sensor and some focal length to the lenses (both of which have been discussed for a long time - and a lens with a ton of focal length is ALREADY on the road map), and you have a system that is far superior to anything else out there for most needs (no, you don't have 11 fps or a 600mm f4, but how many 600mm f4 lenses are sold per year, between Canon and Nikon)? Outside of the specialized realms of sports and to a lesser extent wildlife, they will have the best solution on the market in the advanced hobbyist to pro range (although flash is another weakness)...

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There are folks out there who have made prints up to 6 feet with the X-T1.  With proper processing and exposure, I have no doubt that the X-T1 will make any size print any of us want to make.

 

All that being said, the rumors point to yes, you will get your new sensor.

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The critical question is viewing distance - how big a print can you view how close? For me, the X-T1 is terrific up to 16x24, and just on the edge at 24x36 (the largest size I regularly print). I make 24x36s with it, and they are great at normal viewing distances, but there is a range of potential display conditions in which "too close" is a possibility...

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there is a range of potential display conditions in which "too close" is a possibility...

Quite rare cases though. Why all Fuji users should experience overweighted workflow because of several special purpose shooters? If Fuji wants to cover these too, they should release special high res camera like everybody else does.

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Honestly, you're right. X-T1 is near perfect for me. I don't need more megapixels. Sure, they could have PDAF on all AF points, but the contrast detect works pretty dang fast enough for me to care. 

 

I'm not sure what X-Pro 2 can really offer. Maybe if their high ISO becomes so good that it makes 6400 look like X-T1's 3200 or something. Or if the rumors of multi-aspect sensor is true. But I don't know what else could cause me to want to get an X-Pro 2. 

 

 

How likely does a new sensor seem to Patrick and others in the know? I ask mainly because my X-T1 is already near-perfect, EXCEPT that its resolution is right on the edge for larger prints. Drop a really good X-Trans version of a 24+ MP sensor in that body, or in an updated X-Pro 1 body  (assuming that it doesn't lose any DR, color rendition or other positive characteristics of the present sensor), and you have a REALLY compelling camera. On the other hand, I can't see much Fuji could do to make another camera using the same sensor compelling. What feature, other than a new sensor, would cause people to upgrade? I wouldn't add an X-Pro 2 that was really just bringing the X-Pro 1 up to X-T1 standards...

 

One thing that makes getting this sensor right so important is that Fuji, unlike Nikon or especially Sony (similar to the Micro 4/3 crew, though) hangs on to a sensor forever. I'm assuming this is because the X-Trans filter makes switching sensors much harder.

 

While I may seem to be asking for new things, I'm asking primarily because Fuji is SO close to having the unequivocally best system on the market - at least in my opinion, nothing handles like a Fuji, and they have heir colors nailed ... Add some resolution to the sensor and some focal length to the lenses (both of which have been discussed for a long time - and a lens with a ton of focal length is ALREADY on the road map), and you have a system that is far superior to anything else out there for most needs (no, you don't have 11 fps or a 600mm f4, but how many 600mm f4 lenses are sold per year, between Canon and Nikon)? Outside of the specialized realms of sports and to a lesser extent wildlife, they will have the best solution on the market in the advanced hobbyist to pro range (although flash is another weakness)...

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An upgrade to an X PRO 2 may not make sense for everybody. For me it does since I currently own an E-1 and an X100.  I also have been collecting  a few prime lenses.

 

I certainly hope the viewfinder in the PRO 2 is as large as in the X T-1 in addidition to other refinements mentioned in rumors. If the viewfinder isn't as good, I may have to consider an X T-2.

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