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Fujifilm X-PRO2 rumors


Patrick FR

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about D5500: the "old" IMX193 (used widely) 

 

this (and the D7200) show, how good sensors have become (and taking the NX1 into consideration too one will see how little you gain from huge technological advantages) 

 

 

edit: Patrick: did you miss the WCL-X70? ^^

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do we have any Chinese Forum Member? Then this could interest you ;)

Fujifilm X-Pro2, XF100-400, X70 and X-E2s available for pre-order at Amazon China http://www.fujirumors.com/fujifilm-x-pro2-x70-and-x70-available-for-pre-order-at-amazon-china-xf100-400-listed-too/

 

Converting Chinese yuan of 12999 to US dollars results in $2000 price tag, does that also translate into what FUJI plans to sell it for in the US ?

 

I'd say that is a bit steep. The PRO 2 may be too rich for my taste.

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I hope it's not $1999 in the US, at least not without significant lens deals contingent on the purchase of a body. One approach would be to price it very high, BUT make either a defined kit (and we'd need several good choices, because it will be going to people with a wide range of preferences and existing lens collections) or a build your own kit (lens rebates with body)VERY appealing. This has happened in the industry numerous times, and Fuji has done it themselves - as I recall, even the introduction of the X-Pro 1 was this way - of course, every X-Pro 1 buyer NEEDED a lens (or the M adapter, but almost everyone bought at least one Fujinon), because nobody had them, by definition. I'd rather see $1499 or even $1699 straight out, but $1999 with a big lens discount would work too - I have my eye on a couple of Fujinons, including the 100-400.

 

If they price it at $1999, it'll not only be tied (with the 10 FPS, super pro build D500) for the most expensive crop sensor body (excluding Leica and Hasselblad) seen since 2007, it'll probably be above the median price of full-frame bodies sold in 2015. For this to be true, more than half of full-frame sales would have to be A7, A7II, D610 and EOS-6D (all of which list well below $2000) plus D750, EOS-5D mkIII, A7r and A7s sales at a discount (these all list right at or just above $2000, but get discounted).

 

There is certainly a pattern of camera manufacturers trying to AT LEAST reset prices to what they were when the last generation came out, including in the case of very long-lived models like the D300(s) and X-Pro 1, and sometimes to get more than the predecessor model ever sold for (the three A7 models all went UP in price for the second generation, by around $1000 in the case of the A7r to A7rII). Nikon guru Thom Hogan attributes to this to declining sales to an ever-more dedicated audience. First compact camera sales, and now the most price-sensitive segment of DSLR and mirrorless sales are being lost to smartphones, so the manufacturers are moving up-market.

 

This "price resetting" is clearly not favorable to the consumer - how unfavorable it is depends on just how improved the new model is. There haven't been that many complaints about the huge price jump on the A7rII , because it fixed so many complaints about its predecessor, and has two huge new features - enormous video improvements and the ability to use just about any lens ever made with full focus and exposure functionality, plus image stabilization even on lenses that didn't have it to begin with. Unlike the A7r, the A7rII offers an option to photographers with large collections of Canon and now Nikon glass who don't like their manufacturers' bodies, and that has been seen as justifying the big price hike. The counterexample is lower-end Nikon (and, to a lesser extent, Canon)  bodies, where they have had a huge problem shifting premium priced new models because of cheaper older models.

 

The X-Pro 1 isn't going to be a significant competitor to the X-Pro 2, BUT Fuji has to justify a full-frame price with full-frame performance. If it has the image quality of a D750, it has a couple of advantages, mostly related to the smaller, lighter body and lenses (and some photographers will prefer the viewfinder). Fuji glass is also significantly better than a lot of Nikon, Canon or Sony glass (even full-frame) -  not the very top primes and zooms (which are competitive with, but not better than Fuji's best, while often much heavier and costlier), but what is on a lot of D750s, EOS 6Ds and A7IIs. I'd put even the humble 18-55 Fujinon up against the Nikkor 24-85, 24-120 and 28-300 lenses that find their way onto a lot of those bodies (or to the Sony 28-70, and probably the Sony Zeiss 24-70 f4 often seen on A7s). Yes, the Nikkor 85mm f1.4 is in a different league from those kit lenses, as are the Sony 90mm Macro and the Canon 85 mm f1.2L, but are they in a different league from the Fuji 56mm f1.2? The Fuji 16-55 f2.8 is a very worthy competitor to (and a pound lighter than) any full-frame 24-70 f2.8. The only real reason to prefer Nikon's or Canon's lens lineup is if you need a fisheye, a long, fast tele, or a tilt/shift lens. The only reason to prefer Sony's is adapted lenses (which really means a much more expensive A7rII, not the directly competitive A7II) - Fuji has a great answer for every decent FE lens, and quite a few more besides.

 

They're really saying "take our body and lenses as a system, and you'll prefer Fuji to the D750, the 5D mkIII or the A7II". They just might be right for a lot of uses, if they can get performance at the top end of what they're going for. Unlike APS-C bodies in a full-frame system, Fuji's whole system is designed around their sensor size, so one of the two major advantages of full-frame is gone - Fuji's lenses give the focal length they're designed for, not the often awkward in-between focal lengths that come from FF lenses on crop bodies. They need sensor performance good enough to keep up with 24 MP full-frame, in order to minimize the remaining advantage of full-frame.

 

Even if they get the sensor performance they need, they have three weaknesses that will matter to some photographers. One is that they'll have one (soon to be two with the X-T2) bodies with the great sensor performance they're designing for, and they're going to have very similar sensor performance to each other. This isn't an issue at the lower end - I'd (as a teacher) far rather see a serious photo student with an X-T10 or an X-E2 with beautiful controls and a very nice 18-55 (despite the older 16 MP sensor) than a 24 MP APS-C DSLR with a better sensor, but lousy controls and a kit lens made out of the bottom of a Coke bottle. Fuji will have a perfectly acceptable low-end to midrange sensor in X-Trans II, and the most commonly useful sort of high-performance sensor (a 24 MP, high dynamic range, low noise generalist) in X-Trans III, but they WON'T have either of the two more exotic types of high-performance sensor (ultra resolution or ultra-speedy/high ISO). While an X-Pro 2 or an upcoming X-T2 is hopefully going to be a worthy competitor to a D750 class camera, there's no D810, D5 or D500 for their special uses. The other body weakness of all top mirrorless cameras (except the GH4, which actually does use a DSLR-size battery), compared to higher-end DSLRs is the tiny batteries. Even a mid-size DSLR battery gets 600 shots and lasts through most shooting days, while almost all mirrorless bodies, including the X-Pro/X-T/A7 size bodies that could easily fit those batteries, insist on using the little sub 300 shot batteries instead. Once you're carrying extras, the itty bitty batteries are actually heavier and more expensive than the next size up.

 

The second weakness is "oddity" lenses. It'll be a long time (if ever) until Fuji releases lenses that fill in the "corners" of Canon's or Nikon's lineups (Sony's not going to do that, either, but they have at least one body that uses other makers' lenses at full capability). I hope we'll see something in the 300 mm f2.8 niche, which could be a 200 mm or 250 mm f2.8, or perhaps more interestingly, a 200 mm f2.0 - it gets the 300 f2.8 niche by itself (a stop brighter!) AND the 400 mm f2.8 niche with the existing converter, plus it will even accept a 2x converter to fill the fast 600 mm niche - in the next year or two. I'd be shocked to see more than one fast tele, or anything fast longer than 300 mm, and the fast tele might be as modest as a 200 mm f2.8 to keep size and weight down... ( a 200 f2.8 on APS-C is very close to a 300 f2.8 on full-frame, BUT many Canon/Nikon photographers keep a top crop body around to "extend" their 300 mm f2.8, and that doesn't work here)  Something like a 200 mm f2.4 might be an interesting compromise - it's a LOT lighter than a 300mm f2.8 or a 200mm f2.0, with a ~85mm filter size, yet it gets long with converters (including accepting a 2x with ease), while staying relatively fast. Full-time pro sports photographers won't love it, but they aren't going to be using a system without ultra-high speed bodies, anyway.  I think tilt/shift lenses (especially more than one) and a pro fisheye are much less likely.

 

The biggest weakness, though, is flash. A Nikon or Canon body in the same price range comes with access to a full professional flash system, including everything from "toy flashes" up to $500+ professional flashes with every feature under the sun, as well as specialized ringlights and the like. Sony doesn't have the same range and versatility, but they have a decent system of their own. All three  have sophisticated wireless flash that allows up to nine or more lights, and even some of the "toy flashes" can receive wireless commands, making them useful as fill lights. Fuji has NO wireless flash, and only the one cheaply built Nissin flash with even midrange power and control - everything else is in the toy category. Fuji is saying "photography is about existing light" rather strongly, and, while my style happens to be almost all existing light (mostly landscape), even I would appreciate better flash options for the occasional wedding or product shoot I get talked into.

 

I'm at the top of the wait list at my local camera store for my X-Pro 2, and I think its capabilities (especially with Fuji's great lenses) are going to make it a pretty special camera for a wide range of purposes, maybe even a "best all-rounder" type of camera. I'm planning to thru-hike the Appalachian Trail with a Fuji system in 2017 (one body, with a backup waiting to be sent out if my primary body breaks, and probably two lenses, which may change on different parts of the trail), and I think that the weight/IQ tradeoff is likely to be the best there is (I considered the A7 system, but the lenses are just too darn heavy - I'd only be able to carry one, which would either have to be a prime or a limited zoom, and the weather sealing isn't quite there).  That doesn't mean Fuji got it perfect...

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I have to say I was definately going to order the X-Pro2 on announcement but if the high price is correct, I will be re-thinking my decision.  I was looking at the 100-400mm too, but I will only buy it to go with the X-Pro2 as the focusing on my X-Pro1`s will not get the best out of it.  I suspect I may not be the only one.  :(

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do we have any Chinese Forum Member? Then this could interest you ;)

Fujifilm X-Pro2, XF100-400, X70 and X-E2s available for pre-order at Amazon China http://www.fujirumors.com/fujifilm-x-pro2-x70-and-x70-available-for-pre-order-at-amazon-china-xf100-400-listed-too/

 

Hi Patrick, I am a reader from China, would like to share a few things about this. 

Given the currently leaked website, it is very likely this would be the final MSRP in China for the x-pro 2. But I don't think people should be disappointed by that too fast and there are still good reasons to believe the x-pro 2 price will be less than 1999.

 

1. Pricing of flagship product in China. China still has pretty steep tariff on all kinds of product, especially the higher-end ones, so as a rule of thumb high-end electronics generally has a MSRP that is 10-20% higher than prices in the area (Hong Kong, JP). Also, the consumer habit in China also contribute to this unfortunately, i.e. people loves to pay for expensive stuffs for the sake of "feeling better"

 

2. MSRP and distribution in China. Cameras are largely sold by a variety of local distributors, and they have a lot of freedom to set their own price, hence the "slightly higher" MSRP is quite often.

 

3. Pricing of previous products. This is perhaps the most telling piece of info. MSRP for the X-Pro 1 was 13899 CNY (which translate to well over 2100 USD)! In order words, At least in the Chinese market, Fuji seems to keep the launch price of the X-Pro 2 the same as X-Pro 1, which would be good news for most readers here, I assume. But (yes there is always a but) a more recent Fuji X-T1 only launch for 7900 CNY (which is around 1250 USD) in China in 2014, so readers should keep that in mind as well.

 

Conclusion:

I would wager the X-Pro 2 will mostly likely launch in the same price range as the X-Pro 1, I would be rather surprised if it goes over 1899.

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according to Fujifilm they have their own designs and someone is manufacturing it to their specs. 

 

About the framerate: some Oly OMDs could increase the refresh rate from 60 to 120hz (but with some drawback)

 

 

I think this is the first time we really see some improvements regarding this. And together with the synced sensor (it's column by column read and transferred to the EVF, so the lag is only 0.005sec) and a faster read out of the sensor I think we will see some incredible EVF improvements.

 

Less lag and probably nearly no blackout.

 

 

Fuji has always had some of the best viewfinders (not just the specs but everything from color calibration, to synchronisation, etc.) and I think they keep on improving.

 

 

Personally I don't think we will see a 4k EVF in the X-Pro2 (due to the hybrid Viewfinder a magnification like the X-T1 would be a technological master piece - probably even impossible at it's current size, thus you don't need that many pixels)

 

 

But I think they will push boundaries with the T2 again. 

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LIVE-STREAMING for Fujifilm X-Pro2 Announcement! http://www.fujirumors.com/live-streaming-for-fujifilm-x-pro2-announcement/

 

First Official Fujifilm X-Pro2 (and X70 + X-E2s) Promotional Video Online (Fujifilm France): http://www.fujirumors.com/first-official-fujifilm-x-pro2-and-x70-x-e2s-promotional-video-online-fujifilm-france/

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Look at Patricks screenshot, it got all the information there were.

Seems like face detection in OVF Mode. 

 

Don't yet know what the yellow lines suggest. I guess those are the PDAF area which would imply face detection and pdaf working together. 

 

All in all some very nice improvements

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It seems to match the PDAF area indeed.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

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So we finally have a definite date for the release of the X-Pro 2 and already people are condemning it.

 

I'll bet after all this it's gonna be nothing more than a bloody camera with video facilities.

 

No facility to beam you across the world.

No AI that tells you how to now p off a woman.

No ability to foretell the future to within 5 seconds of the designated time.

 

Just a bloody camera, you know, one of those things that takes pictures and the odd video clip! I mean - sh*t... What were Fuji thinking about?

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