Fujifilm X-PRO2 rumors

[Fuji Braz]

No marked shutter dial has ever had 1/3 stops (not saying it couldn't be done, just that it would be a lot of clicks and possibly slow when changing to a speed a long way away). I seem to recall someone (Leica?) having once done one with half stops (the half stops were unmarked clicks between the marked full stops), but traditionally, shutter speed has been in full stops and fine exposure control has been achieved through aperture and exposure compensation. This changed when unmarked wheels became the control device of choice for shutter speed. Interestingly, this is also the first marked shutter speed dial I've ever seen with 1/8000 on it - between having 1/8000, adding 1/180 for X-sync, the A position and having both T and B, this one has a LOT of positions even without intermediate steps. There is really no reason to have more precise control of shutter speed than full stops most of the time, as long as you have another variable that is adjustable in smaller increments - motion blur/stoppage doesn't change THAT much between full speeds. The two major exceptions are matching shutter speed to frame rate precisely for video (you want the shutter speed to be pretty close to twice the frame rate, so 1/50 is a much better match than 1/60 for 24 or 25 fps) AND getting at the particular intermediate speed you want for flash sync (in the case of Fuji, 1/180, although many older cameras were 1/90, and 1/45 was not unheard of in medium format) - and Fuji's solution allows for both of those. 1/180 is shoehorned onto the dial, and you can get at 1/50 (or any other intermediate speed, but most of the others have few real uses) through the wheel..

 

 

 

I believe we were both thinking of a Leica R8 or R9 then, with an oversized shutter dial, with unmarked half stops. It would be ok for me.

 

http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Leica_R8

 

Also, I would really like an oversized dial so that I could turn it both from behind or in front of the camera. Just an idea. (Not the case with the R8).

 

Of course, 1/3 stops make a small variation both in exposure or motion blur. The ideia was just to simplify operation even more by using just one control for speed. 

[danwells]

You're right - it was the later R series that had the huge number of shutter speeds on the dial (in addition to the half steps, it had a marked 1/8000 AND several speeds longer than 1 second). I stand corrected when I said 1/8000 speeds had always been on wheels rather than marked dials. I had assumed that the only possibilities (given that Fuji has never used 1/8000) would have been one of two anachronistic, but relatively modern Nikons with shutter speed dials (either the FM3a or the DF, both of which only go to 1/4000). I had forgotten that 1/8000 had been around long enough to have slipped onto a couple of cameras during the transition from dials to wheels - those two Leicas and also the Nikon F4. I remembered that the F5 had 1/8000, but that was already a wheel-based design that really looks a lot like a D-series DSLR (or maybe the D-series all look like an F5) - I hadn't remembered it was also on the F4

[Phil]

I just really wish somebody would have the balls to release a camera without all these buttons on.

 

Different strokes. I find buttons a lot more satisfying to press and it makes the whole experience more enjoyable for me. I like being able to shoot without ever going into the menu, and rarely having to open the Q menu. It puts me in a different space, and I can still work fast enough that way that I can do it on jobs.

 

I feel the same about everyone saying it needs a touch screen. I'm fine with that, as long as I have the option to turn it off. 

 

It would be cool if someone other than Leica had the balls to release a camera with minimal buttons, but personally I'm glad it's not Fuji, because I wouldn't buy it then.

[Maurice]

The Fuji's have few buttons already the way i see it, at least the way i use it there is Aperture, Shutter, ISO and EV-comp. Anything else is just necessary to control the 'digital back' so to say, and unless i need to be there i'm blind to those. It's easy to do that, to 'focus' on the task at hand, because Fuji has 'all these' marked physical dials, while all the extra buttons and dials prevent you from needing to go in the menu when anything else needs a kick in the ass.

 

Which is always something that's caused by everything that is either automated or digitized like AF modes, Exposure modes, Auto this, Auto that, and things like processing, formats, white balance, aka your built in dark room basically ànd print service. If you ask me Fuji managed to separate these things very well - or better than any other brand imho.

 

That way we can focus on the things that matter for the actual photograph, exactly how one would with a film camera, while all the other necessities that come with todays extended capabilities remain neatly in the background. I don't see a lot of buttons at all, i see every part of modern photography neatly and logically organized, once you know what's what, and that's why i'm here really. The awesome line-up of optics is just the icing on the cake, though one doesn't work without the other of course.

 

ps. If i'm not mistaken a firmware update for the X-T1 made it possible to fully control the shutter speed on T didn't it? It used to be for setting long exposure times only (since these of course didn't all fit on the main dial, they have to be set 'electronically'), but now it should allow full control of the shutter speed using a unmarked dial if that would be your preference.

[fingerpuk]

Firstly, let me clarify the button statements.

 

The primary dials obviously need to be physical dials. That's a given. And we need some buttons, for sure. But Fuji do love to use many buttons when quite frankly, they aren't all required. Look at the back of an M9 or any other Leica M. The X series was all about the purity of photography, that's why we bought into it. Personally I'd love an X-Pro2 with shutter and ISO dials, aperture on the lens, and that's it. I don't need the screen either, I never use it. Give me a format button in the card bay. Done.

 

On the new sketches I note the words 'black version'. Do we think they'll be a silver version of the Pro 2? That would be nice.

[johant]

Yes, but all the essential dials and buttons are on top, and the extras are on the back. That's clever.

 

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[ShutterNot]

Firstly, let me clarify the button statements.

 

The primary dials obviously need to be physical dials. That's a given. And we need some buttons, for sure. But Fuji do love to use many buttons when quite frankly, they aren't all required. Look at the back of an M9 or any other Leica M. The X series was all about the purity of photography, that's why we bought into it. Personally I'd love an X-Pro2 with shutter and ISO dials, aperture on the lens, and that's it. I don't need the screen either, I never use it. Give me a format button in the card bay. Done.

 

 

 

How about film type - how would you handle that ?

[CRAusmus]

How about film type - how would you handle that ?

Or AF Mode.  Or Metering Mode?  Is there no Exposure Compensation on your model? No drive modes or focus modes either?  How do you switch from Manual to Auto Focus?

[Patrick FR]

ENJOY: First REAL LIFE image of the FUJIFILM X-Pro2… and Merry X-mas my fellow X-shooters :-)

 

http://www.fujirumors.com/enjoy-first-real-life-image-of-the-fujifilm-x-pro2-and-merry-x-mas-my-fellow-x-shooters/

[caterham]

Contrary to the rumors otherwise, it appears to me that the LCD may possibly be a tilt screen  based on its thickness and the  small protrusion  at  its bottom corner

[arcaswissi]

Contrary to the rumors otherwise, it appears to me that the LCD may possibly be a tilt screen based on its thickness and the small protrusion at its bottom corner

yes, this would really be a nice christmas gift for me too. If you ever worked with a tiltable display you really miss it if it isn't there.

[ShutterNot]

I don't know. Hope that LCD thickness doesn't throw of the feel/balance of the PRO-2

[fingerpuk]

Hope that is fake. It looks real.

 

Sadly.

 

I'm guessing they stick buttons up their nose and sneeze, and that's the design done.

 

Leica will get my cash.

[milandro]

Good, more left for us, people who actually enjoy a camera with dials and buttons.

 

There are other cameras for other needs and wants. Knock yourself out and buy one of those.

 

Variety is the spice of life.

[fingerpuk]

Agreed. Was pissed though at this, I really wanted one. Just dropped the cash on the M262, wanted that more. Been saving for 2 years and it's Christmas.

[johant]

Contrary to the rumors otherwise, it appears to me that the LCD may possibly be a tilt screen based on its thickness and the small protrusion at its bottom corner

A tilt screen is another thing that can break, making a second hand X-Pro2 a less attractive buy. I hope Fujifilm went for mechanical sturdiness, instead of novelty.

 

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[fingerpuk]

Or AF Mode.  Or Metering Mode?  Is there no Exposure Compensation on your model? No drive modes or focus modes either?  How do you switch from Manual to Auto Focus?

 

I shoot manual. Manual focus, manual exposure. I never use anything other than single shot. The only button I use on my X100T is the on/off switch. Otherwise it's set up and that's that. I never use film modes either. I also never crop, and only adjust exposure and sharpness in Lightroom if needed. And I do B&W conversions there also.

 

OK, so the buttons I can live with. It's just not buttons laid out cheaply. The part where we grip the camera with the most pressure is where they've decided to place most of the buttons. Those buttons don't have palm rejection technology, they are just buttons. This is bad design.

 

My personal opinion about this, and it's jut mine and I'm happy with people telling me I'm being an idiot, is that Fuji have become confused over the product they are delivering. This is not a general consumer camera aimed at people who'd spend £500 on a dirt cheap DSLR who want P mode and all those other modes I forgot. Like a little picture of some hills of a flower on a dial. The X range started with a very honest and concise understanding of why it existed, and I feel that vision has been lost to the marketing and engineering departments who need a: more things to talk about and b: more things to talk about.

 

It's not a better product because Fuji really give a shit about making it a better product. They've commoditised it beyond the point where the original philosophy can keep up.

 

So that's why I'm sad. And it's why I bought the M262, because it does one thing really well. I'd have bought the M60 but didn't have £12k. One day though, one day I will.

[ShutterNot]

Somebody is going to be really sad rushing to judgement before the product is released. That may or may not be a tilt screen.

 

I don't get it. How can you decide without having all the facts.

[fingerpuk]

If that was for me, the tilt screen is of no concern to me. It would never be moved. But also I'd know it was there.

[milandro]

Fuji is not at all confused with their ideas about which camera they want to produce, they are precisely sticking to the product which has found the initial resonance among its clients.

 

If nothing else they are pursuing a design and a strategy that is the exact same which gave them the success they have received until now. Why change any of that?

 

A camera with a retro look and feel, with sufficient modern technology and great, lens range, while in a market segment that makes it affordable for many users around the world, mostly people who started using cameras when they were still analog and looking like the fuji are looking now, and different from all the other products in the competition.

 

If we would look at the demographics of the average Fuji user we would find that more than 50% are people between 40 and 70 years of age, with many years of photographic experience, higher education and medium-high income.

 

These, I am, sure is the kind of customer to which the majority of the X range, for sure in their upper segment, are targeted to.

 

Leica has a marketing department too and they have chosen to cover a different market segment.

 

Fuji has a considerable marketing competence which coupled to the feedback from their sellers and distributors is telling them exactly what the majority of Fuji customers want from Fuji. This marketing vision put them on the market with cameras that featured their own particular vision on what a camera should look like and how it should operate.

 

They are doing exactly that.

 

Can they please everyone? Can anyone please everyone?

 

No!

 

So there will always be people that want Fuji to give them what Leica or Sony or Nikon does, but for less money, obviously otherwise they would have bought one of those.

 

 

It is not going to happen, because although they might get those clients on board, they will lose others who want Fuji to be Fuji and not a cheaper Leica or a Sony or Nikon.

 

 

If Fuji would do that I would be the first to not have any interest in that kind of camera. You bought the Leica? More power to you.

 

I wouldn’t be interested in such camera to the point that if I would have won one at a contest ( not that I generally partake to such things but I occasionally do) I would have sold it to buy a Fuji.

 

I guess that some folks have to be interested in that kind of thing. So stick with it and be happy. 

 

Play the lottery so maybe you’ll have the money to buy the camera of your dreams.

 

Me? I have it already. 

[Warwick]

My dilemma is whether to get an X-Pro 2, or whether to wait for the X-T2 and compare. With two top-end interchangeable lens cameras, it will be interesting to see whether they're going to differentiate mainly by form factor, or whether the cameras are going to have different functional emphases

 

 

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[milandro]

I wouldn’t jump on the bandwagon this early! 

 

Whatever it is that they are putting in the X Pro 2 will be featuring in the X-T2 later on. 

 

Unless one is completely new to the system one would be better served by waiting than rushing into  buying the newest camera which, in all probability, given the track record, will also be more expensive at first that It would be once the X-T2 comes on the scene.

 

As I’ve said. 

 

I doubt, unless there will be a truly revolutionary camera, that I would be buying into generation 2 if it will all come down to a larger pixel count and a faster and more precise autofocus for moving object ( plus some goodies in the form of film simulation).

 

If that is all that generation 2 has to offer then I will wait for generation 3 or leave things as they are for the rest of my foreseeable photographic future.

 

Many years ago I had a friend who kept on calling me and saying :

 

“ We have to find a system to get richer!”,

 

“ Ok!”, I said, “  but what will we be doing when we are richer?

 

Will we buy a larger house?

But we have a house.

Will we buy a bigger car?

But we have a car.

 

In other words we have already everything we need.

 

What will we be doing with 24 million pixels that we cannot do now?

 

Print larger prints? My lab promises 135cm x 90 with 12Mp. 

 

Large enough for me already and with 16Mp. even more than that.

 

I shoot mostly things that aren’t moving too fast and, judging from the fact that most of us show girlfriends or spouses , grandkids, landscapes et similia, do mostly the same.

 

What would I do with a faster autofocus? Know that I can shoot pictures that I don’t shoot?

 

Maybe better to buy roses for one’s heart with the money that I’ll save!

[Jürgen Heger]

I like the part wth the roses most.

[benjaminthomson]

I wouldn’t jump on the bandwagon this early!

 

Whatever it is that they are putting in the X Pro 2 will be featuring in the X-T2 later on.

 

Unless one is completely new to the system one would be better served by waiting than rushing into buying the newest camera which, in all probability, given the track record, will also be more expensive at first that It would be once the X-T2 comes on the scene.

 

As I’ve said.

 

I doubt, unless there will be a truly revolutionary camera, that I would be buying into generation 2 if it will all come down to a larger pixel count and a faster and more precise autofocus for moving object ( plus some goodies in the form of film simulation).

 

If that is all that generation 2 has to offer then I will wait for generation 3 or leave things as they are for the rest of my foreseeable photographic future.

 

Many years ago I had a friend who kept on calling me and saying :

 

“ We have to find a system to get richer!”,

 

“ Ok!”, I said, “ but what will we be doing when we are richer?

 

Will we buy a larger house?

But we have a house.

Will we buy a bigger car?

But we have a car.

 

In other words we have already everything we need.

 

What will we be doing with 24 million pixels that we cannot do now?

 

Print larger prints? My lab promises 135cm x 90 with 12Mp.

 

Large enough for me already and with 16Mp. even more than that.

 

I shoot mostly things that aren’t moving too fast and, judging from the fact that most of us show girlfriends or spouses , grandkids, landscapes et similia, do mostly the same.

 

What would I do with a faster autofocus? Know that I can shoot pictures that I don’t shoot?

 

Maybe better to buy roses for one’s heart with the money that I’ll save!

I think you'll notice a big jump in dynamic range and colour depth compared to the x-pro1. There's already a noticeable gap between the x-t1 and x-pro1 when shooting high contrast scenes or delicate skintone.

[milandro]

Then I think that I have now all the dynamic range that I need and again, if these minor things would be all that the generation jump has to offer, than I’ll either wait or stick to what I’ve got.