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David Miranda

Noise at 800 ISO and above

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Once again I ask...Is FUJI going to do something about the worming (noise) that seems to start around 800 ISO. I was told it's a light room issue and doesn't happen with Capture One. However, it shows up straight out of the camera not after it is downloaded. As much as I love my XT-1 and XT-3 this sensor is driving me crazy. Way too much noise at 800 ISO and above.

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Do you shoot in Jpeg or RAF?

I develop my RAF with Capture one , and I have no noise issue until 3200-6400 iso on my prints. And Capture one v20 does an evermore good job on iso noise. 

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The problem is in the default settings of the  software.  Sharpening in LR is set to 40 by default.  C1 uses a 0-1000 scale and is set to 140 - this would be a 14 equivalent in the LR 0-100 scale.  X-trans sensors deliver a MUCH sharper image than the Bayer sensor from Canon/Nikon.  Thus LR is defaulted for Canon/Nikon, while C1 is suited better for X-trans.  Note: the C1 settings I am using come from Version 20 for Fuji.

Also the Luminance settings in C1 are set at 50 while LR is set to 0.  Thus once again, the C1 for Fuji has defaults set for the Fuji sensor while LR is set for Canon/Nikon.  I tried importing in LR with a C1 Fuji preset (14/50) and surprise LR & C1 appear pretty much equal for IQ!  Also I find setting both software to "0" sharpening & "0" Luminance produces equal images.  

I have started importing to LR with preset setting to "0" sharpening & "0" Luminance.  Once I have processed my image I then look at the image and access sharpness.  I will increase it as much as possible without creating noise or worms.  If I see noise or worms before I have done any sharpening, then I set the Sharpening to "1" to enable masking.  I then mask most of the sharpness out.  Roughly masking ends up around 70 to 80.  

If I still see  noise or worms after masking, then I increase Luminance until the  noise or worms are gone.  Usually that ends up less than 50 even if the ISO was 6400 or above.

I find this system solves all the worm issues.  Although the truth is, good capture and correct exposure during capture will reduce  noise or worms the best.

Edited by Lumens

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According my experience, noise is the combination of four factors:

1- Sensor technology
2- Image processor
3- Underexposure
4- RAW processing software used

Points 3 and 4 being are the most sensitive in terms of responsibilities.


What RAW processing software do you work with?

 

X-T2 samples @ 800 ISO

https://flic.kr/p/2hup5HK

https://flic.kr/p/2frdEEr

 

Samples @ 1600 ISO

https://flic.kr/p/2gaWZTm

https://flic.kr/p/2goSUi7

Edited by RTJR

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If one looks close enough, all sensors have noise at all ISOs regardless of the comments by the fan boys. When someone doesn't see noise until above ISO 6400, they are just looking at very small images from a distance, perhaps on a low resolution monitor. View at 100% on a 4k monitor, up close, and the noise will be visible. 

There is no magic here, Capture One vs Lightroom is just a matter of your choice of settings and adjustments. Noise is inherent in the sensor technology and not Bayer vs X-Trans. Because of the arrangement of the color filters on the pixels, color (not luminance) noise is affected. Some colors will be noisier with Bayer and others noisier on X-Trans. 

With my X-T1 (admittedly less noisy than the X-T2 which is less noisy than the X-T3 though not by much), up to ISO 3200 only modest noise reduction was needed. In Lightroom, 0-10 for highly detailed photos, perhaps 20-30 with smooth areas like the sky, especially a dark sky. 

The problem is that the camera companies listen to the pixel peepers (overwhelming majority) and not photographers. The highest IQ sensors from Canon, Nikon, Panasonic and Sony are all their lowest resolution models. 

Want lowest noise and highest IQ, pick up a Nikon D3S or the almost as good D4/D4S. At ISO 6400 they are superior to our Fujis at ISO 800. Expect to pay $1500-2500 for ones in excellent condition. But this is a discussion for another day. 

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On 1/29/2020 at 4:31 PM, TwoMetreBill said:

If one looks close enough, all sensors have noise at all ISOs regardless of the comments by the fan boys. When someone doesn't see noise until above ISO 6400, they are just looking at very small images from a distance, perhaps on a low resolution monitor. View at 100% on a 4k monitor, up close, and the noise will be visible. 

There is no magic here, Capture One vs Lightroom is just a matter of your choice of settings and adjustments. Noise is inherent in the sensor technology and not Bayer vs X-Trans. Because of the arrangement of the color filters on the pixels, color (not luminance) noise is affected. Some colors will be noisier with Bayer and others noisier on X-Trans. 

With my X-T1 (admittedly less noisy than the X-T2 which is less noisy than the X-T3 though not by much), up to ISO 3200 only modest noise reduction was needed. In Lightroom, 0-10 for highly detailed photos, perhaps 20-30 with smooth areas like the sky, especially a dark sky. 

The problem is that the camera companies listen to the pixel peepers (overwhelming majority) and not photographers. The highest IQ sensors from Canon, Nikon, Panasonic and Sony are all their lowest resolution models. 

Want lowest noise and highest IQ, pick up a Nikon D3S or the almost as good D4/D4S. At ISO 6400 they are superior to our Fujis at ISO 800. Expect to pay $1500-2500 for ones in excellent condition. But this is a discussion for another day. 

Well, Since you seem to have all the answers, then no one needs to answer.

Thank you

 

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Fuji has good ISO invariance, so exposure ISO is not crucial for ISO800 and above. Underexposed iso 800 raf pulled to 6400 in postproduction looks just like ISO 6400 out of the camera. It's important to keep DR setting at 100 for raf files, higher values increase your ISO with no benefits.

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