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Lightroom for x-trans... seriously?


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#21 Mike-Photos

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 04:19 PM

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I have now switched from Lightroom to Capture One. The image quality is much better for me, and Capture One is far quicker.

 

Not an easy decision, because I am going to lose the ability to go back and edit older photos.

 

I have been with Lightroom from the very start, but right now I can't justify staying on the Adobe platform.

 

I'm upset that Lightroom has just not moved forward substantially for many years. There's a reason that ON1, Topaz, X-Transformer, Affinity, and others now have their own raw processing pipeline, it's because Adobe have not stepped up. And make no mistake, it's not just with Fuji files.



#22 dko22

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 04:32 PM

I can't "get" X-Transformer. Sure, the files are more detailed than with Lightroom but the colours are often uninspiring. Also the sharpness seems exaggerated and unnatural with default settings or not sharp enough with the smooth one. Far too many people don't seem to really notice what foliage actually looks like to the naked eye -- it actually looks neither like the analytical Iridient, nor the smudged Lightroom --incidentally Lightroom is also soft with other cameras which tends to be ignored though there seems to be somewhat fewer issues boosting the sharpness of Bayer v XTrans.

 

Every RAW developer has its strengths and weaknesses. I'm actually coming round to Photo Ninja again after being frustrated for a while with the slow development. Eventually v.2 will see the light of day and I'm sure there will be interface improvements. There are no glaring weaknesses I can see in the actual development side. Highlight recovery can still a be bit funky but it at least tries to go further than LR. The slighly cartonish HRD effect which the default occasionally produces can easily be modified or just turn off smart lighting.

 

To the OP, I actually prefer the LR to the oversharpened C1 version though C1 is a good package. Its very individual colours for Fuji are a matter of taste.



#23 gordonrussell76

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 11:00 PM

This old chesnut AGAIN.

 

Just get Capture one and be done with it :) Works for me, few hints for people worried about tranisitioning to C1

 

1) This is for Mike Photo's - note you can import your old LR catelogue into C1 and it will do its best to recreate and translate the settings and processing you had performed in LR, its not 100% and its can't do all settings but it gets damn close and is a great place to start from if you are revisiting an old shoot.

 

2) Use Workspaces, you can customize your workspace to be as you want it, I use this a lot and have a workspace with all my most used tools in one place, hugely powerful.

 

3) If you are unsure where to start with workspaces, look in the menu and you will find that there are some legacy workspaces, including a Lightroom one, load this and it configures Capture One to be as much like LR as possible to help you transition your workflow.

 

4) Use the excellent series of C1 videos on their website, I watched them all and was up and running with about 90% of what I wanted to do in a couple of days.

 

G


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https://www.flickr.c...s/10596811@N04/

 

Fuji X-T2 : XF 10-24mm : XF 35mm : XF 56mm : XF90mm : XF 50-140mm+TC2x


#24 XMike

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 11:37 AM

 
 
If someone is interested in sharpening and denoising X-Trans Fujifilm Raw files in Adobe software... I've just updated my post on blog. Let me know what you think about these settings please.
 
Maybe we can find a new way to post produce these really high quality files.
 

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#25 detlev24

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 01:32 PM

I cannot complain regarding the edits of my X100F. I always got the looks I wanted in Lightroom and I feel the RAF-files offer plenty of space for customization. Maybe it is mainly about that:

 

Brilliant Article From Martin Evening on Lightroom vs. Capture One Pro

 

?



#26 gdanmitchell

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 02:48 PM

Having shot x-trans camera for something like five years now, photographing a wide range of subjects and often printing large, I'm perplexed by the various sports of some supposedly-significant "watercolor" problem. There were some issues in the early day of x-trans when non-Fujifilm vendors were trying to figure out how to process Fujifilm files, but I haven't seen a significant issue with this in several years. I certainly don't see it with the 24MP files from my XPro2.

One wonders if some of the third-party companies that are desperately trying to break into the rather small market for alternative conversion apps for Fujifilm may be feeding this myth. For me, I'll continue to use by Adobe products. They work really well with my Fujifilm files.

 

dan


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#27 Adam Woodhouse

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 03:33 PM

X-Transformer isn't much $ so I purchased it to give it a try.  Having used Lightroom since Version 1.0, I'm quite comfortable with it.  But the speed at which LR works with RAF files is painful, so I thought I'd try X-Transformer to see if I notice any difference in LR speed and a difference in the RAF details.  To date, I haven't been unhappy with the LR RAF processing, just curious if better detail can come out of RAF files and if LR can perform better.

 

On a recent wedding I shot (that is my primary photography) I had close to 2000 files.  Half from XT1, half from XT2.  I did the X-Transformer batch conversion of RAF files into compressed DNG.  The settings I set in X-Transformer were those of the advice of a couple of photographers on this forum that use X-Transformer and speak highly of it. 

 

Once the X-Transformer batch conversion was done, I fired up LR and imported the DNG folder and then applied my usual colour profile of Astia to all of the images (since by default, just like the RAF files, no colour profile is applied ... so it is necessary to apply one of the Fuji colour profiles to get what I consider to be the correct look).  I have no sharpening done in X-Transformer, so I needed to apply a little bit of sharpening in LR (approx value of 25 on the slider).  End result looked pretty much the same as LR + RAF that I'm use to (with higher, more aggressive LR sharpening against RAF files).

I found that LR's editing performance (Library and Develop modules) against DNG files was better.  It wasn't drastically better (which I had hoped) ... but it was better.  I noticed the improvement.

 

In regards to sharpness or 'worm' effect of foliage, I wasn't pixel peeping too much but didn't notice any difference between my previous customized LR sharpening settings and the X-Transformer results.  But my photo subject matter varies quite a bit when shooting a wedding (indoors, then outdoors, bright scene, dark scene, trees and no trees, etc).  For those that do a lot of landscapes, they may notice it more than me.

 

I gave X-Transformer a try because 1) I wanted quicker performance when using LR and 2) if my raw files had more to give me ... I wanted those results.  Since many give a convincing argument that X-Transformer appears to resolve potential LR rendering problems (with certain RAF files) and yields quicker DNG file processing (Adobes own design) ... I figured I give it a shot and make it the first step in my workflow.

 

I'm not a convert yet ... but am fine drinking the Kool-aid.   :)


Edited by Adam Woodhouse, 03 July 2017 - 06:24 PM.

TWO Fujifilm X-T2's
16mm/1.4 | 35mm/1.4 | 10-24mm/4 | 16-55mm/2.8 | 50-140/2.8

Rokinon 8mm/2.8

Flashes: Fujifilm EF-X500, iNissin i40 and two Yongnou 565's

Classic Lens Adapters: M42, Canon FD, Nikon and Minolta MD

 

Adam Woodhouse, Wedding Photographer
Ontario, Canada
http://www.adamwoodhouse.info
Twitter: @woodhousephoto


#28 Mike-Photos

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 06:12 PM


1) This is for Mike Photo's - note you can import your old LR catelogue into C1 and it will do its best to recreate and translate the settings and processing you had performed in LR, its not 100% and its can't do all settings but it gets damn close and is a great place to start from if you are revisiting an old shoot.

 

 

Thanks Gordon, I never used catalogues, and now I only use sessions. I'll miss the ability to revise, but I think that I could probably do better starting from scratch.

 

I do use workspaces, they are wonderful. I lay out all the tools I use on one screen, with a smaller viewer, and use the second screen for the preview. No more clicking tools open or closed, or scrolling through to find the tool.

 

I do have a lot to learn still, but I'm really enjoying the extra capabilities.

 

And I'm sorry to leave Lightroom, maybe I'll come back if and when a significant upgrade arrives. Right now, as I said, and even with little experience, I can develop photos better and quicker than in Lightroom.



#29 Ed Vatza

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 10:06 AM

Having shot x-trans camera for something like five years now, photographing a wide range of subjects and often printing large, I'm perplexed by the various sports of some supposedly-significant "watercolor" problem. There were some issues in the early day of x-trans when non-Fujifilm vendors were trying to figure out how to process Fujifilm files, but I haven't seen a significant issue with this in several years. I certainly don't see it with the 24MP files from my XPro2.

One wonders if some of the third-party companies that are desperately trying to break into the rather small market for alternative conversion apps for Fujifilm may be feeding this myth. For me, I'll continue to use by Adobe products. They work really well with my Fujifilm files.

 

dan

 

Good to hear, Dan. I was looking for a familiar name in this "argument" and found yours. I am brand new to Fuji. So new that my X-PRO 2 doesn't arrive until tomorrow. I am trying to get at least slightly ahead of the curve if I can. Up to now I have shot primarily with Canon (with a 4 year period in there with Leica) and I will continue to do so. But I look forward to X-PRO 2 as a lighter weight/more compact alternative to the 5D3 and L glass. I have never had any issue with my RAW files in Lightroom be they CR2 from Canon; DNG from Leica or even whatever they were from my little Ricoh. I don't want to start having issues now with the Fuji RAW files.

 

I confess I don't understand what goes on inside LR or PS or any other software but I do know my work flow. I process RAW files in LR and only convert to JPEG in order to post on FB or IG. Otherwise the files remain processed RAW files and I print from them. I can go up to 24" wide paper and I have had even bigger prints made for exhibits. They are almost always B&W and I have never had any issues whatsoever. I am not expecting any issues with the Fuji files and am glad to see you are not having any with the latest versions of Lightroom.

 

Ed



#30 Mike-Photos

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 01:14 PM

Good to hear, Dan. I was looking for a familiar name in this "argument" and found yours. I am brand new to Fuji. So new that my X-PRO 2 doesn't arrive until tomorrow. I am trying to get at least slightly ahead of the curve if I can. Up to now I have shot primarily with Canon (with a 4 year period in there with Leica) and I will continue to do so. But I look forward to X-PRO 2 as a lighter weight/more compact alternative to the 5D3 and L glass. I have never had any issue with my RAW files in Lightroom be they CR2 from Canon; DNG from Leica or even whatever they were from my little Ricoh. I don't want to start having issues now with the Fuji RAW files.

 

I confess I don't understand what goes on inside LR or PS or any other software but I do know my work flow. I process RAW files in LR and only convert to JPEG in order to post on FB or IG. Otherwise the files remain processed RAW files and I print from them. I can go up to 24" wide paper and I have had even bigger prints made for exhibits. They are almost always B&W and I have never had any issues whatsoever. I am not expecting any issues with the Fuji files and am glad to see you are not having any with the latest versions of Lightroom.

 

Ed

 

Hi Ed

 

Not sure if you know this, but you can set all the B&W emulations on the camera, including the fantastic Acros ones, in the Profile section of the Camera Calibration panel. Great starting point for your B&W processing. It was one of the issues holding me back from switching out of Lightroom.



#31 Ed Vatza

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Posted 04 July 2017 - 01:42 PM

Hi Ed

 

Not sure if you know this, but you can set all the B&W emulations on the camera, including the fantastic Acros ones, in the Profile section of the Camera Calibration panel. Great starting point for your B&W processing. It was one of the issues holding me back from switching out of Lightroom.

 

I will definitely check it out. I know with the CR2 (Canon) files I use one of the profiles as a starting point. 

 

Ed



#32 Kentman

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 08:51 PM

I have an XE-2. I started off using SilkyPix but found the waxy faces and poor colour rendition of midtones in poor light a problem. I had latest version SP, too. Jumped to LR on W10 machine late last year, latest version LR and CR as I am a cloud subscriber. I do not see problems with foliage. I have not seen it mentioned here, but are LR users employing the 'mask' function in the sharpening control? Hold down 'alt' and the move the masking control to the right. This will mean that only those features highlighted in white will be sharpened. Solid blocks of colour will then be left alone by the sharpening settings.

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk
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#33 dpiscona

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 05:55 AM

Can u share the original RAW file ? I'll try elaborate it in Darktable with Linux OS


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#34 AdamJOrange

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 05:24 PM

The single best piece of advise I read when dealing X-Trans RAFs in Lightroom/Photoshop is to forget all the sharpening settings and presets you used with previous cameras, experiment and come up with settings that minimize the artifact-effect.

 

As has been linked and mentioned elsewhere in this thread, I can either use strong sharpening with low detail, or vice-versa - but not both - when sharpening my RAFs.   If I'm unhappy with how sharpening treats the image, I seek out an alternative processor (X-Transformer, etc.)

 

All of that said, I'm on the verge of moving to Capture One, and I'll be happy to not look back  



#35 Kentman

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 05:50 PM

The single best piece of advise I read when dealing X-Trans RAFs in Lightroom/Photoshop is to forget all the sharpening settings and presets you used with previous cameras, experiment and come up with settings that minimize the artifact-effect.

As has been linked and mentioned elsewhere in this thread, I can either use strong sharpening with low detail, or vice-versa - but not both - when sharpening my RAFs. If I'm unhappy with how sharpening treats the image, I seek out an alternative processor (X-Transformer, etc.)

All of that said, I'm on the verge of moving to Capture One, and I'll be happy to not look back

I tried capture one with my XE-2. Results were very good but the price put me off. Staying with LR for now.

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk


 
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