Are both slots really UHS-II? Slot 2 is slow, using both slots produces errors.

[kimcarsons]

Both cards slots on the X-T2 are supposed to be UHS-II enabled.

 

But I've noticed a curious thing since I started running two UHS-II cards in my X-T2.

 

If both cards are installed in the camera, I get delays and read errors when reviewing photos.

 

If one card is in the camera, and it's in slot 1, then there are no (fewer) read errors and reviewing photos is fast.

 

If one card is in the camera, and it's in slot 2, then there are no (fewer) read errors but reviewing photos is much slower.

 

Likewise, in sequential mode, the write speed of slot 2 is slower than slot 1 (13 seconds to clear buffer vs 10).

 

Do others have the same experience? Did I miss something in the fine print where slot 2 isn't really UHS-II enabled?

[hildasea]

I have two cards Lexar 2000. After 8k images still w/o problems with write speed.  I´m very satisfied.

[kimcarsons]

I have two cards Lexar 2000. After 8k images still w/o problems with write speed.  I´m very satisfied.

 

I found a very reliable way to reproduce the read errors. Put a card with a at least a hundred frames in slot 1, then use the copy function to transfer all frames to slot 2.

 

When you do this with your Lexar 2000 cards, do you get a read error?

[hildasea]

Sorry, but I do mostly payed jobs. The 2. slot is by me as backup. Lexar 2000x have on X-T2 write speed 153 MB/S a read speed is about 270 MB/S. I see no need to copy images from slot 1 to slot 2. For what is it?

[kimcarsons]

Sorry, but I do mostly payed jobs. The 2. slot is by me as backup. Lexar 2000x have on X-T2 write speed 153 MB/S a read speed is about 270 MB/S. I see no need to copy images from slot 1 to slot 2. For what is it?

 

If you had no intention of being helpful, why did you even respond?

[tom3q]

If you had no intention of being helpful, why did you even respond?

 

It reminds me someone posting about some magic RAW conversion method in a similar way some time ago. Anyway, I despise such behavior and am going to actually be helpful even if the other side was not helpful for me before:

 

It looks like X-T2 can for some reason be really picky about the cards being used. There was a thread about lock-ups happening on certain cards/cameras: http://www.fuji-x-forum.com/topic/3955-x-t2-freezes/ . This IMHO is a software bug - I've done some work involving programming SDHCI controllers in Linux kernel and I know that getting this right for the wide range of existing cards is quite complicated and the faster the standard is, the less tolerance for hardware settings remains. FYI, depending on camera and/or card unit, even if it's the same model, the firmware might need to choose different parameters for the SDHC physical interface - this is called clock tuning. Possibly someone got something not fully right in X-T2 firmware.

 

Also generally the second slot is known to be slower than the first one, but it should be still faster than UHS-I. See http://www.fujix-forum.com/threads/raw-jpeg-slower-card-in-second-slot.66119/. That's probably expected, since the camera in RAW/JPEG dual slot mode always uses slot 1 for RAW and slot 2 for JPEG and you can't make it the other way around, which makes sense as it would slow you down.

 

On the other hand, I have a set of two UHS-II cards from Lexar, one 32 GB (LSD32GCRBJPR2000) and one 64 GB (LSD64GCRBJPR2000) and I've never experienced any problems, but I only use RAW/JPEG mode and haven't tried copying pictures between cards. Will try to test this when I have some time.

 

My guess is that you need to keep bugging Fujifilm to fix the firmware to support more reasonable range of cards. BTW. you haven't mentioned what cards you have.

Edited March 13, 2017 by tom3q

[kimcarsons]

It reminds me someone posting about some magic RAW conversion method in a similar way some time ago. Anyway, I despise such behavior and am going to actually be helpful even if the other side was not helpful for me before:

 

It looks like X-T2 can for some reason be really picky about the cards being used. There was a thread about lock-ups happening on certain cards/cameras: http://www.fuji-x-forum.com/topic/3955-x-t2-freezes/ . This IMHO is a software bug - I've done some work involving programming SDHCI controllers in Linux kernel and I know that getting this right for the wide range of existing cards is quite complicated and the faster the standard is, the less tolerance for hardware settings remains. FYI, depending on camera and/or card unit, even if it's the same model, the firmware might need to choose different parameters for the SDHC physical interface - this is called clock tuning. Possibly someone got something not fully right in X-T2 firmware.

 

Also generally the second slot is known to be slower than the first one, but it should be still faster than UHS-I. See http://www.fujix-forum.com/threads/raw-jpeg-slower-card-in-second-slot.66119/. That's probably expected, since the camera in RAW/JPEG dual slot mode always uses slot 1 for RAW and slot 2 for JPEG and you can't make it the other way around, which makes sense as it would slow you down.

 

On the other hand, I have a set of two UHS-II cards from Lexar, one 32 GB (LSD32GCRBJPR2000) and one 64 GB (LSD64GCRBJPR2000) and I've never experienced any problems, but I only use RAW/JPEG mode and haven't tried copying pictures between cards. Will try to test this when I have some time.

 

My guess is that you need to keep bugging Fujifilm to fix the firmware to support more reasonable range of cards. BTW. you haven't mentioned what cards you have.

 

Thanks! I found the lockup thread after posting and indeed it does seem to be referring to (mostly) the same problem (I have only had one lockup that required removing the battery, and it was while the screen said "write error."). I was under the impression that that issue had been fixed in the previous firmware update---seemed like people stopped complaining about the lock-ups. I hadn't seen the second thread, thanks again. It is disappointing that slot 2 is inherently slower, because I am using the two cards in the BACKUP configuration. 

 

The cards I'm using now are Lexar 1000x 64GB, but these are not the only cards I've had trouble with. So far, the only cards that have worked for me reliably are Lexar 1800x 32GB. I have not tried the Lexar 2000x or the Sandisk Extreme Pro UHS-II because they're so ridiculously expensive and I'm not actually after speed here, I just want a card that works consistently/reliably in the camera and doesn't result in a long EVF switching delay. But it's hard to say what really works, because after removing the battery and playing musical chairs with cards, the 1000x appear to be working without issue. Of course, I don't trust it to stay that way. 

[hildasea]

kimcarsons:

 

They are in tests recommended for X-T2 two cards: first choice is Lexar 2000x (300/260 MB/s) and second Toshiba Exceria Pro (260/240 MB/s). Sure, they are very expensive, but by Fuji X-T2 is very small HW tolerance.

I copy - for you - cca 200 images RAW from card 1 to card 2 and w/o problems (Lexar 2000x to Lexar 2000x). But I have no idea for what I can use this function.

Edited March 15, 2017 by hildasea

[kimcarsons]

kimcarsons:

 

They are in tests recommended for X-T2 two cards: first choice is Lexar 2000x (300/260 MB/s) and second Toshiba Exceria Pro (260/240 MB/s). Sure, they are very expensive, but by Fuji X-T2 is very small HW tolerance.

I copy - for you - cca 200 images RAW from card 1 to card 2 and w/o problems (Lexar 2000x to Lexar 2000x). But I have no idea for what I can use this function.

 

Thanks. The point of the copy function was just that it was a reliable way to reproduce the intermittent read errors. The read errors happen anyway, but at random times. I don't think I'll be spending ~$200 on Lexar 2000x cards anytime soon.

 

I returned the Lexar 1000x cards.

 

P.S.

 

The copy function actually is useful on its own! You can, for instance, shoot with a fast 16GB card and then use the copy function to back up in the field (no need for a computer) to a larger, slower (cheaper card) say a 256GB, which you keep say in your hotel room. Then format the 16GB card(s) and resume shooting.

[tom3q]

Sorry, didn't manage to test the copy yet, but found some more information. There is an official compatibility table on Fujifilm's website:

 

http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/compatibility/card/x/

 

The general table seems to cover only up to UHS-I, but there is one more table below specifically listing tested UHS-II cards.

 

In addition, owner's manual [1] contains following statement

 

"A complete list of approved memory cards is available at “Compatibility”. Operation is not guaranteed with other cards."

 

which given my earlier explanation about the difficulty of covering all the cards in the SD/MMC controller driver, could explain the problems being reported by users. It doesn't change the fact that I'd expect better testing coverage and quicker response (i.e. firmware fixes) from a maker of such high grade camera.

 

[1] http://fujifilm-dsc.com/en/manual/x-t2/first_step/insert_card/index.html ("Compatible Memory Cards" section)

[hildasea]

kimcarsons:

 

In X-T2 is one controller for two slots for cards. Is better way to use same cards in both slots. It is different to X-Pro2. 

[tom3q]

kimcarsons:

 

In X-T2 is one controller for two slots for cards. Is better way to use same cards in both slots. It is different to X-Pro2. 

 

Could you share the source of this information? It doesn't sound reasonable to me, since the camera can access two cards at the same time.

 

In any case, "controller" sounds really abstract, there might be one "controller" block in the chip, but if it can control two cards in parallel it's really no different from two separate "controller" blocks on the chip, where one "controller" can control only one card. Moreover, you can have a system with two separate controllers sharing some common resource, such as clock generator and this could actually pose problems when using two completely different cards. On the other hand, you could have one controller and two clock generators and have no problems.

[hildasea]

Our regional technical support from Fuji told that for X-T2 is better choice two same cards, because both slots have one controller. I´m not technical expert, but when I bought X-T2, my first question was about good cards, because I need shoot some times images in series. I read reviews from Fuji ambassadors and after them I spoke with our Fuji support. The result are my two Lexar 2000x for best possible performance.

Edited March 16, 2017 by hildasea

[kimcarsons]

I think my finding that slot 2 is slower also suggests that slots 1 and 2 are not identical and not sharing a single controller interface.

[kimcarsons]

@hildasea Try setting the camera to "sequential" mode and putting one card in. Time a RAW+JPEG burst in slot 1, then time reviewing the photos from slot 1. Then move the card to slot 2 and repeat. On my camera, I get different performance depending on which slot the (same) card is placed in.

 

And it follows that one does not get the full benefit of a fast card when it is in slot 2.

 

However, as I have also found, putting a UHS-I card in either slot results in slow EVF switching. So you have to use a UHS-II card in slot 2, even though slot 2 doesn't use the cards full speed.

 

A very frustrating (not to mention expensive) set of circumstances.

Edited March 16, 2017 by kimcarsons

[hildasea]

I see any difference by write speed in slot 1 or slot 2 or in both slots. I can shoot easy about 50 JPEG in one sequence w/o any problems in EVF, shooting speed or AF.

[kimcarsons]

I see any difference by write speed in slot 1 or slot 2 or in both slots. I can shoot easy about 50 JPEG in one sequence w/o any problems in EVF, shooting speed or AF.

 

The number you can shoot depends on the buffer more than the card. It's the time it takes the camera to dump the buffer to the card that varies with card or interface speed. You need to time it with a stop watch.

 

The speed of playback is more apparent, as you can flip through pictures with the wheel or joystick and plainly see that playback from slot 2 is slower than playback from slot 1 with the same card. (indicating that both read and write speeds are lower with slot 2)

 

The EVF switching issue requires a specific set of circumstances see: http://www.fuji-x-forum.com/topic/4288-slow-eye-sensor-evf-switching-response-with-uhs-i-cards/

[tom3q]

The number you can shoot depends on the buffer more than the card. It's the time it takes the camera to dump the buffer to the card that varies with card or interface speed. You need to time it with a stop watch.

 

The speed of playback is more apparent, as you can flip through pictures with the wheel or joystick and plainly see that playback from slot 2 is slower than playback from slot 1 with the same card. (indicating that both read and write speeds are lower with slot 2)

 

The EVF switching issue requires a specific set of circumstances see: http://www.fuji-x-forum.com/topic/4288-slow-eye-sensor-evf-switching-response-with-uhs-i-cards/

 

The EVF switching issue is an evident firmware bug, possibly switching re-triggers SD card re-initialization, which might take more time with "problematic" cards. Still, I'd say the problematic part here is the firmware, unless you use some really cheap no-brand or counterfeited cards.

 

In my opinion, the whole SD card support (or lack of thereof) issue should be taken care of by Fujifilm ASAP, along with other firmware bugs and usability regressions (such as the strange AF lock functional change vs X-T1). Hopefully the rumored firmware update takes care of them. I really hope Fujifilm keeps the firmware support on a good level and not go into new product rush mode, as many manufacturers do, leaving older products without support. I'm especially worried since the GFX series was launched and there is also the rumored new X-series super camera to come...

Edited March 17, 2017 by tom3q

[entropic remnants]

If you had no intention of being helpful, why did you even respond?

 

People like you are the reason I don't usually post on forums anymore.  They guy told you what his experience was, and if he didn't want to do your test, well what of it?  You had to be an a-hole to him just because he didn't get with your program.

 

Sheesh.  Lighten up.  You're Kim Carsons not Kit Carson.