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Advanced Look- ON1 Photo Raw 2017.2 Now A Real Fuji Raw Contender

raw processing X-Trans Lossless-compressed raw processor

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#1 AZWolf

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 05:57 AM

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Hi All,

 

Yesterday ON1 sent me an advanced copy of their newest release of Photo Raw due to be out Thursday, Feb 9th.

 

I wrote an article comparing it to several other Fuji Raw processors. It has improved substantially and now handles lossless-compressed files.

 

Enjoy,

Joel


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#2 kimcarsons

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 07:10 AM

Nice comparison. Looks like it just about ties with the camera JPEG. Iridient appears to be doing the best job in your examples. Would you be willing to share the RAF file?


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#3 Nick05

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 12:54 PM

Are you using it as a standalone product to work on the RAW files, or are you using it as a plugin? It looks interesting and like it may be easy to work with either way.

#4 AZWolf

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 04:13 PM

Nice comparison. Looks like it just about ties with the camera JPEG. Iridient appears to be doing the best job in your examples. Would you be willing to share the RAF file?

 

Thanks. I'm glad you liked it. I hope to have time in the next few days to add more 100 percent views from the image to show both highlight detail and shadow detail. That should alleviate the need for the original file. After printing fine art for over 30 years I can safely say that there will be little difference among the top 3 (Photo Raw, ID, AP). Perhaps the detail I chose didn't show it clearly enough but at 1:1 the OOC JPEGs and LR aren't as good as the top contenders. I am also going to make large prints and report on the differences. I personally love the JPEGs, especially Acros which I use often but so far I haven't trusted the JPEGs for large prints. They are, however, great for posting online and for visualization (see my other X series articles on my blog )


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#5 AZWolf

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 04:23 PM

Are you using it as a standalone product to work on the RAW files, or are you using it as a plugin? It looks interesting and like it may be easy to work with either way.

Right now I'm using ON1 Photo Raw as a plugin though I do sometimes use it standalone. I still like Lightroom for its speedy database capabilities. It also has a great print engine and I often make use of the slideshow, web and book modules. ON1 does have a cataloging/database of sorts through the Favorites. That is another area where I have been providing feedback to the ON1 team. Ultimately it will be capable of replacing LR for many people. But either way it works well. It has a great interface and extensive capabilities- to the point where I rarely use Photoshop any more. I will be posting more about it as I get updates from ON1. The nice thing for Fuji owners is that we now have some capable products for raw conversion from which to choose.


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#6 Stedphoto

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 08:18 PM

It looks like Iridient is still the best ........ As for your 100 percent crop examplesIi can see artifacts in the fence of the on1 crop compared to your Irident crop..........



#7 Adam Woodhouse

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 09:18 PM

Great info.  Thanks for making us aware of it.

 

When you point ON1 Raw to the folder of Fuji RAW files, is it possible to assign colour profiles?  Currently in LR, I import my RAW file folder which has XT1 and XT2 (compressed) RAF files.  Once they are imported I apply (in batch) a preset to the XT1 files and a different present to the XT2 files.  In my preset I have a Fuji colour profile.  Can I subset the XT1 files and apply a preset and then subset the XT2 files and apply another preset?

Thanks!


TWO Fujifilm X-T2's
16mm/1.4 | 35mm/1.4 | 10-24mm/4 | 16-55mm/2.8 | 50-140/2.8

Rokinon 8mm/2.8

Flashes: Fujifilm EF-X500, iNissin i40 and two Yongnou 565's

Classic Lens Adapters: M42, Canon FD, Nikon and Minolta MD

 

Adam Woodhouse, Wedding Photographer
Ontario, Canada
http://www.adamwoodhouse.info
Twitter: @woodhousephoto


#8 AZWolf

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 01:38 AM

It looks like Iridient is still the best ........ As for your 100 percent crop examplesIi can see artifacts in the fence of the on1 crop compared to your Irident crop..........

 

 

Iridient Developer does render slightly more detail but as I noted in the comparison you can really only see this pixel peeping at 100% view. I also consider the final use (large prints, online, small prints, etc.) and overall workflow for a real world perspective on this (see my section Keeping it all in perspective.) I'm including another 100% crop here so you can see another section of the fence. Some of what you're seeing is the wire in the fence itself, which is actually somewhat jagged. I also provided these crops without sharpening. Normally I do capture sharpening on every image. It looks to me like Photo Raw has a tiny bit of sharpening inherent in the raw extraction so it appears a little bit sharper and the ID version is a little smoother looking. Consequently I would do less capture sharpening with an ON1 Photo Raw processed raw file. As it turns out the default sharpening in ID is just about perfect and in the end, if you're making prints, you're not going to see a difference anyway. I think these samples are an interesting comparison. I'll let everyone know when I do my printing comparison from the different raw processors.

Attached Files


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#9 AZWolf

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Posted 11 February 2017 - 02:22 AM

Great info.  Thanks for making us aware of it.

 

When you point ON1 Raw to the folder of Fuji RAW files, is it possible to assign colour profiles?  Currently in LR, I import my RAW file folder which has XT1 and XT2 (compressed) RAF files.  Once they are imported I apply (in batch) a preset to the XT1 files and a different present to the XT2 files.  In my preset I have a Fuji colour profile.  Can I subset the XT1 files and apply a preset and then subset the XT2 files and apply another preset?

Thanks!

 

You're welcome and I'm glad you found it useful. If I'm understanding you correctly, yes you can apply presets en masse in Photo Raw to whaever group of photos you want. It doesn't apply Camera Calibration files the same way as LR but you can create (or use existing) presets to mimic various films such as Fuji Velvia. The ones that come with it right now are limited but it is my understanding that ON1 will be adding Fuji film profiles, including Acros, later this year. I hope this helps.


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#10 voodooless

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 07:58 AM

What about performance, specially opening a file? Lightroom is just agonizingly slow even of fast hardware.

Do diamonds shine on the dark side of the moon?


#11 AZWolf

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 11:25 PM

What about performance, specially opening a file? Lightroom is just agonizingly slow even of fast hardware.

 

 

This new release is very fast. When you open a file from Browse it is pretty much instantaneous and about 1-2 seconds to render if you go to 100% This compares to about 8 seconds in LR (latest version) and if you have an older version 20 seconds or more. These times are based on my 2012 desktop Mac i7 (4GHz) and 2014 MacBook Pro i7 (3GHz) Switching modules it runs about 1-3 sec depending which module among Browse/Develop/Effects and about 4-5 seconds to load into layers.

 

IT’S HERE!! ON1 released 2017.0.2 today for immediate download. Below is a blurb they sent me with some info about future releases. In the meantime enjoy the new release. I plan to update you all with some more comparisons I’ve been working on!

From ON1: “ON1 Isn’t Done Yet
ON1 has adopted a new development process with ON1 Photo 2017. This will allow for continuous updates and new features approximately every 4-6 weeks. Several free updates to ON1 Photo are scheduled for the first half of 2017. These include: automatic lens correction, workspaces, compare mode, photo settings, versions, groups (stacks), camera profiles (film looks), updates for new cameras, and much more. Feedback from the ON1 community has been critical in helping prioritize product features. The Photo RAW Project is the best way for users to submit their ideas and feature requests for Photo RAW. Each submission is reviewed by ON1 and then voted on by the community. The more votes an idea gets, the higher likelihood it will get added into the app.”


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#12 voodooless

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 06:45 AM

Sounds good! Does that mean the current verzuim does niet have automatic lens correction?

Do diamonds shine on the dark side of the moon?


#13 Adam Woodhouse

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 04:05 PM

I was excited but then read this.

 

http://blog.thomasfi...support-sort-of

 

Wolf ... from your experiences can you comment if this is isolated case or a legit issue?

Thanks.


TWO Fujifilm X-T2's
16mm/1.4 | 35mm/1.4 | 10-24mm/4 | 16-55mm/2.8 | 50-140/2.8

Rokinon 8mm/2.8

Flashes: Fujifilm EF-X500, iNissin i40 and two Yongnou 565's

Classic Lens Adapters: M42, Canon FD, Nikon and Minolta MD

 

Adam Woodhouse, Wedding Photographer
Ontario, Canada
http://www.adamwoodhouse.info
Twitter: @woodhousephoto


#14 AZWolf

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 05:13 PM

I was excited but then read this.

 

http://blog.thomasfi...support-sort-of

 

Wolf ... from your experiences can you comment if this is isolated case or a legit issue?

Thanks.

 

 

I just saw that this morning. It's difficult to say if it's isolated or not. Essentially each of us is looking at sections of one photo with completely different subjects. So between our two articles there is an N of 2. As I tried to get across in my post, the comments section, and the forums, I look at the big picture (no pun intended). For the moment I am picking Photo Raw as my first choice. As I mentioned, strictly from a quality standpoint and viewing at 100 percent which is really just for comparison purposes and may or may not apply to real world scenarios,  Iridient has the edge. From an overall perspective though Iridient has other issues such as having to adjust color and workflow. I mentioned in another comment response that it was difficult to get the color of the sky to look natural with Iridient and it took some time to try and get it to match LR, ON1, and AfPh all of which provided good looking files with only the normal raw optimization adjustments. BOTTOM LINE: You need to try these processors on the types of images that you shoot and the results based on how you use them (prints, books, online, etc.) This is why my article says "Take a look at the crops and make your own decisions." I plan to look at some more types of images but in the meantime I hope this helps.


Edited by AZWolf, 15 February 2017 - 07:17 PM.

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#15 Adam Woodhouse

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:26 PM

Thanks Wolf.  Appreciate the time you have put into making us aware of this great product.  

 

I know I will spend some time with the new ON1 product as I have no loyalty to Lightroom.  But Lightroom has been a good product for me over the years (for the most part).  But Lightroom is annoyingly slow with RAF processing even on my workhorse of a computer and me doing tricks such as creating Smart Previews and then renaming my RAW file folder so that its only using the Smart Preview is a bit of an annoying workaround.  The sharpening I use in LR works OK (definitely a must as the default LR sharpening setting is wrong for RAF files) ... but I don't like how it quickly LR sharpening makes the images more noisy and a bit 'crunchy' when it appears ON1 has a much better sharpening engine (that and the incredible shadow recovery got my ON1 attention).  But I love the LR Fujifilm colour profiles for the RAF files and don't want to give those up ... so hope ON1 has something similar soon.


Edited by Adam Woodhouse, 16 February 2017 - 03:30 PM.

TWO Fujifilm X-T2's
16mm/1.4 | 35mm/1.4 | 10-24mm/4 | 16-55mm/2.8 | 50-140/2.8

Rokinon 8mm/2.8

Flashes: Fujifilm EF-X500, iNissin i40 and two Yongnou 565's

Classic Lens Adapters: M42, Canon FD, Nikon and Minolta MD

 

Adam Woodhouse, Wedding Photographer
Ontario, Canada
http://www.adamwoodhouse.info
Twitter: @woodhousephoto


#16 Hermelin

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 01:39 PM

Thanks for the review! I'm going o try the trial of ON1. 

I'm just wondering about what product to buy?

 

1. If I just purchase "ON1 Photo RAW"  do I have to pay everytime there's a a new upgrade? Since "ON1 Plus Pro MEMBERSHIP" says "Free upgrades with active membership"

 

2. Is ON1 Effects 10.5 with all those filters included when I purchase "ON1 Photo RAW" or do I have to buy it seperatetly? Same question regarding ON1 Resize 10.5.


Edited by Hermelin, 17 February 2017 - 01:51 PM.


#17 Plaatje

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 03:23 PM

Sounds good! Does that mean the current verzuim does niet have automatic lens correction?

 

No lens correction!


photo's can be seen at:    http://www.ipernity.com/home/731285

and:                                   https://www.flickr.c...tos/plooifiets/


#18 Plaatje

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 03:25 PM

Sounds good! Does that mean the current verzuim does niet have automatic lens correction?

No!!!


photo's can be seen at:    http://www.ipernity.com/home/731285

and:                                   https://www.flickr.c...tos/plooifiets/


#19 AZWolf

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 06:17 AM

Thanks Wolf.  Appreciate the time you have put into making us aware of this great product.  

 

I know I will spend some time with the new ON1 product as I have no loyalty to Lightroom.  But Lightroom has been a good product for me over the years (for the most part).  But Lightroom is annoyingly slow with RAF processing even on my workhorse of a computer and me doing tricks such as creating Smart Previews and then renaming my RAW file folder so that its only using the Smart Preview is a bit of an annoying workaround.  The sharpening I use in LR works OK (definitely a must as the default LR sharpening setting is wrong for RAF files) ... but I don't like how it quickly LR sharpening makes the images more noisy and a bit 'crunchy' when it appears ON1 has a much better sharpening engine (that and the incredible shadow recovery got my ON1 attention).  But I love the LR Fujifilm colour profiles for the RAF files and don't want to give those up ... so hope ON1 has something similar soon.

 

 

Hi Adam,

 

I like many things about Lightroom. Because you can use ON1 in different ways you don't have to give up Lightroom. LR is still the best database out there and has great key-wording capabilities. I may be one of the few that uses modules besides Develop and Library but I happen to like using most of the other modules and use the Slideshow and Web modules often. It also has a great print engine. As we all know, on the downside, it is very slow (and not just with Fuji files) and right now doesn't do a great job with Fuji raw files. If this is of any help- here's an overview of my workflow integrating LR, ON1, and Photo Mechanic:

 

• I import my images in LR making use of import presets and keywording on the fly. I was using Photo Mechanic (PM) but LR import got faster recently

• I use PM to cull and rate the shoot I just imported becuase PM is super fast when you zoom to check detail. As this point I've narrowed the shoot down to a handful of top picks.

• I use ON1 PhotoRaw to process the select RAF files. This is when I intend to make prints. If I am only going to the web with low resolution and am in a hurry I may just use SOOC jpegs or quick conversions in LR

 

I will note that once I've processed the raw files I'll save them as TIFF and sync the folder in Lightroom. So LR is in a sense, still my hub because I have over 120K images cataloged and keyworded and it allows me to find any image out of the 120K+ in a second or under.

 

Also this workflow is dynamic. I've already changed it a couple times since I bought my X-Pro2 about a year ago. I do my best to keep up on new software so I am continuously trying to improve the efficiency of my workflow while maintaining print quality.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Joel


Edited by AZWolf, 18 February 2017 - 06:18 AM.

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#20 adzman808

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 11:22 AM

I gave On1 Raw a whirl this week, inspired 1) by Joel's review and 2) I quite like On1 Photo (sometimes) as a finishing tool

 

The lack of automatic lens correction is a bit shabby IMO, but the correction tool to fix it works well.

 

Personally I think we sometimes get a bit obsessive about sharpness... That said, of course for certain usage scenarios (eg ultra prints) it's very, very important.

 

FWIW I think ON1 is a good product for having a lot of useful features, and has ways of working that should suit most people's experience levels, for example it has pre-sets for a lot of edits, and of course you can still do things manually.

 

When you compare this to a lot of other apps, which (quite understandably) expect you to know how to use all the tools you want & make your own pre-sets, then I think this is good feature making On1 suitable for beginner and seasoned raw shooters

 

IMO

 

We've actually had a decent suite of X-Trans editors for quite a while... Sure by most accounts ID has the edge in sharpness (see what I did there?) but also by most accounts, it's only Adobe that haven't measured up against C1/PN/ID/SP/XID/On1

 

So if you can break with Adobe (assuming Adobe isn't working out for you, it works for many people) then there's plenty of choices out there, all of which have pros and cons.

 

The 'trick' to find the app that works best for what you shoot, and the way you shoot* and the way you like to edit.

 

(*for example, Adobe might be the worst for X-Trans demosaicing, but it's possibly the best for post capture exposure push - so if you habitually shoot from a ISOless sensor methodology, then the slightly soft and smeary images are a small price to pay for the extra 2 stops of exp push and the fact that the colour doesn't fall apart if you push it 3 stops, like in some apps)


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Cheers, Adam
My Website, home of the largest X-Pro series opinion piece on the 'net:
http://adambonn.com/




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