Guidance to Fuji newbie

[ljcarr]

Im new to Fuji and limited in my photographic experience, I have had many cameras in my life but I either left them in auto mode or Aperture priority, however I've not done much over the last few years. So I purchased a XT10 last year to get back into it and also try and do more manual exposure shooting, I have bought a couple of lens (10-24 mm & 18-135 mm) I now would like a fast prime for evening shooting, I was contemplating the 23 mm 1.4 or 35 mm 1.4 it is to be used round the house (children) street, party's, restaurants you know every day stuff. So your opinions would be welcome

[milandro]

Welcome.

 

Unless you go by the motto “ why doing things the simple way when you can do them the difficult way?"Manual exposure shooting makes only sense if you have specific reasons to do that.

 

After a good 40 years of photography, much of it spent by being a professional photographer, I’ve used manual and automatic exposure (never Program though).

 

My favorite was always Aperture priority and  normally (still) chose first the aperture (which I consider paramount ) then see whether the shutter speed suites my necessities ( avoiding camera motion blur) or the situation ( subject moving rapidly or wanting to get subject motion blur).

 

But with digital photography where the EVF showing " what you see is what you get “ things are even simpler because if the couple of shutter speed and aperture aren’t what you want you simply augment or reduce the ISO value and within very broad limits this will not impact the end result much or at all.

 

Having said this.

 

Also a “ fast prime” is for EVF cameras overrated unless you want the separation given by a very light efficient aperture. This is very different if you want to focus manually with a DSLR but autofocus with a mirrorless make little use of the lens at maximum aperture clarity since it is never there when stopped down ( check your lenses).

 

It would be much more usful to have a FAST (in autofocus speed terms) lens than having a costly light efficient lens.

 

Why do you want to upgrade? Is there something specific that you are missing?

 

Do you need the speed that only the X-T2 would offer IF you buy the bulky grip ( the X-T20 won’t), do you need to print any larger the 2 x 3 meters (that you can already do)?

 

Is the joystick (many complain about it) absolutely indispensable?

Edited January 27, 2017 by milandro

[Nick05]

Im new to Fuji and limited in my photographic experience, I have had many cameras in my life but I either left them in auto mode or Aperture priority, however I've not done much over the last few years. So I purchased a XT10 last year to get back into it and also try and do more manual exposure shooting, I have bought a couple of lens (10-24 mm & 18-135 mm) I now would like a fast prime for evening shooting, I was contemplating the 23 mm 1.4 or 35 mm 1.4 it is to be used round the house (children) street, party's, restaurants you know every day stuff. So your opinions would be welcome

Also I'm upgrading to the either the XT20 or XT2 but not decided which one yet

Welcome to Fuji and the Forum. People probably think I get commission from selling these, but if you are learning manual exposure or even a better understanding of it, I highly recommend a book written by Bryan Peterson called "Understanding Exposure". This book is what really helped me understand how ISO, Shutter, and Apeture worked together and how to achieve the effect I wanted in photos when I first started photography. When I was shooting Canon, I spent a lot of time in full manual. It was only when I was shooting sports and birds in flight that I would go to aperture priority. Now that I have a Fuji, I was excited because of the physical dials and how great they would be for shooting in manual. I found that the internal light meter is so good, that I primarily shoot aperture priority only. I do occasionally put it in full manual, but haven't found much need to. I still think it is good to understand exposure and know how to shoot in full manual so you can easily take full control when needed.

 

It sounds like you have two great lenses already. The 18-135mm is the last lens I thought I'd ever own and had zero interest in it when it was released, but has become my go to zoom. As far as which prime to get, I find the 35mm F/1.4 and 23mm F/1/4 to be very different. Do you frequently shoot at one of those focal lengths over the other? The 35mm is a nice lens, but the focusing motors are noisy and the AF is not what I would call quick compared to the 23mm. I also find the F/2 versions of these lenses very nice. The only downside to them is they are F/2 instead of F/1.4, but the AF is way quicker, they are completely silent, smaller, lighter, weather resistant, and much cheaper. You could get both F/2 versions instead of one of the F/1.4 versions. They are all really nice lenses though and I don't think you need to worry about one being better than the other as much as which one would suit your needs better.

 

As far as upgrading, I have not owned the X-T10, but had the X-T1 and now have the X-T2. I love the camera and I find the ergonomics of it are better for me than the smaller bodies. However, if you are happy with the handling of the X-T10, I'd go with the X-T20. It will be a natural upgrade and is far less expensive with identical image quality. Of course it would probably make sense to wait until the first sale to buy. I would also point out that lenses are better investments and have a larger impact on your photos than a camera body.

[ljcarr]

Welcome.

 

Unless you go by the motto “ why doing things the simple way when you can do them the difficult way?"Manual exposure shooting makes only sense if you have specific reasons to do that.

 

After a good 40 years of photography, much of it spent by being a professional photographer, I’ve used manual and automatic exposure (never Program though).

 

My favorite was always Aperture priority and  normally (still) chose first the aperture (which I consider paramount ) then see whether the shutter speed suites my necessities ( avoiding camera motion blur) or the situation ( subject moving rapidly or wanting to get subject motion blur).

 

But with digital photography where the EVF showing " what you see is what you get “ things are even simpler because if the couple of shutter speed and aperture aren’t what you want you simply augment or reduce the ISO value and within very broad limits this will not impact the end result much or at all.

 

Having said this.

 

Also a “ fast prime” is for EVF cameras overrated unless you want the separation given by a very light efficient aperture. This is very different if you want to focus manually with a DSLR but autofocus with a mirrorless make little use of the lens at maximum aperture clarity since it is never there when stopped down ( check your lenses).

 

It would be much more usful to have a FAST (in autofocus speed terms) lens than having a costly light efficient lens.

 

Why do you want to upgrade? Is there something specific that you are missing?

 

Do you need the speed that only the X-T2 would offer IF you buy the bulky grip ( the X-T20 won’t), do you need to print any larger the 2 x 3 meters (that you can already do)?

 

Is the joystick (many complain about it) absolutely indispensable?

Cheers milandro, thanks for all the advise. I'm only considering the XT20 or XT2 for better focusing, better sensor, better ISO, and touch screen on XT20. Are you also saying that there's no real difference between a lens that has an maximum aperture of f1.4 is no better in low light than a lens of f4 ?

[ljcarr]

Welcome to Fuji and the Forum. People probably think I get commission from selling these, but if you are learning manual exposure or even a better understanding of it, I highly recommend a book written by Bryan Peterson called "Understanding Exposure". This book is what really helped me understand how ISO, Shutter, and Apeture worked together and how to achieve the effect I wanted in photos when I first started photography. When I was shooting Canon, I spent a lot of time in full manual. It was only when I was shooting sports and birds in flight that I would go to aperture priority. Now that I have a Fuji, I was excited because of the physical dials and how great they would be for shooting in manual. I found that the internal light meter is so good, that I primarily shoot aperture priority only. I do occasionally put it in full manual, but haven't found much need to. I still think it is good to understand exposure and know how to shoot in full manual so you can easily take full control when needed.

It sounds like you have two great lenses already. The 18-135mm is the last lens I thought I'd ever own and had zero interest in it when it was released, but has become my go to zoom. As far as which prime to get, I find the 35mm F/1.4 and 23mm F/1/4 to be very different. Do you frequently shoot at one of those focal lengths over the other? The 35mm is a nice lens, but the focusing motors are noisy and the AF is not what I would call quick compared to the 23mm. I also find the F/2 versions of these lenses very nice. The only downside to them is they are F/2 instead of F/1.4, but the AF is way quicker, they are completely silent, smaller, lighter, weather resistant, and much cheaper. You could get both F/2 versions instead of one of the F/1.4 versions. They are all really nice lenses though and I don't think you need to worry about one being better than the other as much as which one would suit your needs better.

As far as upgrading, I have not owned the X-T10, but had the X-T1 and now have the X-T2. I love the camera and I find the ergonomics of it are better for me than the smaller bodies. However, if you are happy with the handling of the X-T10, I'd go with the X-T20. It will be a natural upgrade and is far less expensive with identical image quality. Of course it would probably make sense to wait until the first sale to buy. I would also point out that lenses are better investments and have a larger impact on your photos than a camera body.

Nick05, thanks for the reply. I have got and read that book, I do understand exposure principles it's then putting that into practice and achieving your desired result! Not really sure what focal length is use regularly, I was just interested in a versatile low light lens for night/indoor shots of family and holiday evenings out?

[milandro]

Better sensor? Hardly! ( see how many complaints there are about the visible grid or red dot, for example)

 

Bigger but for what? Bigger prints? What was the biggest print you had done in the last 3 years? Lager than 2 x 3 meters ( because that is what you can print in gallery quality with your 16MB).

 

I find the “ bigger sensor because I can crop” an incredible argument. Isn’t it better to think more about making pictures? Well, of course there are those who shoot hundreds of the exact same picture.

 

I shoot little less and think more. That’s better.

 

 

 

There is a  profound difference between using DSLR which has a mirror to focus and Mirrorless is that the EVF acts as a light amplifier.

 

So, to a certain extent ( unless you are really shooting in the dark ... what’s in an idiom!) it makes no difference if you shoot at f4 a lens that has that as maximum aperture of 1.4 in the way that or both at f 4  they will all look the same on your evf.

 

Try it.

Edited January 27, 2017 by milandro

[Tikcus]

x

Im new to Fuji and limited in my photographic experience, I have had many cameras in my life but I either left them in auto mode or Aperture priority, however I've not done much over the last few years. So I purchased a XT10 last year to get back into it and also try and do more manual exposure shooting, I have bought a couple of lens (10-24 mm & 18-135 mm) I now would like a fast prime for evening shooting, I was contemplating the 23 mm 1.4 or 35 mm 1.4 it is to be used round the house (children) street, party's, restaurants you know every day stuff. So your opinions would be welcome
Also I'm upgrading to the either the XT20 or XT2 but not decided which one yet

 

I'm not going to quote previous replies as CBA to get into an argument with people.

 

Welcome to Fuji.

 

Your zoom choices are good for general photography, if I didn't own a prime lens and was going to buy 1 only it would be the XF 35 F/1.4 Every time

 

Personally I ONLY shoot full manual exposure (with the only exception being, well, never) the adjustments to Aperture, Shutter Speed and ISO can be made in seconds and in reality, you normally only ever have to quickly adjust one of the 3, which depends on what you are taking pictures of.

 

Is saving a second of my time shooting in shutter priority worth sacrificing creative control for, never for me, I can't speak for others.

is a fast F/1.4 worth the extra cost? yes in my opinion if you do not own anything that fast.

 

It is 3 stops of light better than an F/4 lens, depending on what you are photographing depends what difference that will make, and what limitations you are prepared to put up with.

 

An F/1.4 lens can shoot at F/4, an F/4 lens can never shoot at a wider aperture.

 

No lens is at its sharpest wide open, but its sometimes better being able to shoot a fast lens wide open than a slower lens wide open and with a high ISO/Slow shutter speed.

 

Aperture @ F/1.4 Shutter Speed @ 1/60 ISO @ 800 = Aperture @ F/4 Shutter speed @ 1/60 ISO @ 6400

Personally I'd much rather have an image shot at F/1.4 than an image shot at ISO 6400

 

People will say but if a lens has OIS you can hand hold at a slower shutter speed, which is true, but OIS can not stop Motion Blur (so as long as you only take photographs of static objects OIS is great) 

 

The fast lens provides you with a shallow DOF option.

 

The other option you have if it's about indoor photos in low light is to use a flash.

 

For kids or anything that moves personally I'd rather have the flexibility of a fast 1.4 lens, the choice between 23 and 35 only you can make, at a push around the house you may find the 35mm a bit tight, I'd recommend you to set your 18-135 to both focal lengths to decide between them.

 

Here is a photograph I took at dusk with the 35mm F/1.4 @ F/1.4, SS 1/60, ISO 200 (if I had to shoot at F/4 this photograph would not have been possible, the ISO would have to have been pushed higher, and I don't like noise, and the background would be more in focus than i wanted)



 

 

 

tldr

 

The faster the aperture of a lens the more creative control you have over your art

Edited January 28, 2017 by Tikcus

[frankinfuji]

Lots of good advice in the earlier posts. You already have two good zooms, and they focus fast and have OIS, so in my view you have the general 'household' use covered.

 

I think the real benefit of a prime is the different 'look' you can get from a prime lens as compared to general purpose zooms. This is a combination of the wider aperture and the design quality or character of the lens. The 35 f1.4 excels at both of these aspects. But as you are experimenting with manual controls, also consider trying an older manual lens using an adapter. Some classic primes can give a very different look, and you can find some wide aperture lenses cheaply on the second hand market.

 

One other thought. You start by saying you want to try more manual control, then mention upgrading to an X -T2/20. In practice it's the improved automation that is a key benefit to upgrading (faster, better autofocus etc), but to suit your aims you could consider 'downgrading' to an X-Pro 1? It encourages creative manual control, and the quality of the image (not IQ) is different, and in my view better, than the series 2 and 3 sensors.

Edited January 28, 2017 by frankinfuji

[Tikcus]

Re:- upgrading there are 2 reasons to upgrade. NEEDS and WANTS

 

There is nothing wrong with upgrading because you want to rather than need to, it's your money after all.

 

A need to upgrade is because you have either reached a limitation of your camera, or your camea is missing a feature you could use.

A Want does not need to be justified if you can afford to do it.

 

I can only spek personally but if I was to upgrade to a Xtrans 3 camera, it would be the X-Pro 2 or X-T2 - Why? it would deffenitly be wants over needs (the T20 does not offer a significant improvement over the T10 for me, and would only be considered if I got a great deal P/X the T10)

 

The majority of my work, doesn't need faster autofocus speeds (though I never feel Autofocus is slow anyway).
​I've never had an SD card fail in camera so I've never before felt the need for an automatic backup in camera, but this is a feature I like (I only use Lexar Pro SD Cards), I don't shoot weddings or many once in life time events, so worst case scenario if a card failed it would just require a re-shoot, therefore this is deffenitly a want rather than a need.

More mega pixels and faster processor are alays welcome, I've printed to A1 from both the Xtrans and Xtrans 2 and both are good enough, but if you can't use the full frame of the image and need to crop more mega pixels does allow you to crop your image further and retain an acceptable print.

 

For myself the difference between the X-Pro 2 and X-T2 mainly optical viewfinder on the pro 2 and 4K video, and faster continuious shooting with battery grip  on the t2(or more photos taken) would only influence my decision if prices remain similar.

 

X-Pro 2 is currently £1339 in UK (on amazon)

X-T2 is currently £1399 in UK (on amazon) without battery grip

 

At those prices personally I'd opt for the T2

 

If the Pro 2 was around the £1100 mark and the T2 at the £1400 mark,  I'd definitely opt for the Pro 2

 

edit

 

The other issue that would potentially influence my decision to the Pro 2 or T2 over the T20 is HSS flash support.

 

It was a non issue previously as no Fuji had official HSS support (although it has been added to X-T1) 

Although HSS works on my X-T10 using my nissin i40 (although the nissin i40 does not work in HSS on the X-Pro 2, when i tested it) it is unofficial support, if Fuji will not support HSS on mid range bodies it will give me another reason when i upgrade to get the Pro 2 or T 2

Edited January 28, 2017 by Tikcus

[ljcarr]

Thanks guys for all your advise, all valid points and personal views. I'm sure I probably really don't need to upgrade, but firstly I'm a tech junky and secondly I think you should always buy the best you can at any given time. Regarding a fast prime lens, With my limited photographic knowledge I thought a lens that allows more light in would allow me to take pictures when there's less light available i.e restaurants, street, parties etc without using flash, I do realise there's limitations and at some point a flash will be needed.

[Nick05]

Thanks guys for all your advise, all valid points and personal views. I'm sure I probably really don't need to upgrade, but firstly I'm a tech junky and secondly I think you should always buy the best you can at any given time. Regarding a fast prime lens, With my limited photographic knowledge I thought a lens that allows more light in would allow me to take pictures when there's less light available i.e restaurants, street, parties etc without using flash, I do realise there's limitations and at some point a flash will be needed.

You are correct about a fast prime lens. I think what was meant in the post above is that most people tend to stop down to smaller apertures when shooting. I tend to shoot a lot wide open and do shoot in lowlight a often. A fast lens is required. I don't think I could recommend the 35mm F/1.4 for anything that is moving. It has a fairly slow AF. The 23mm F/1,4 focuses much quicker, but the 35mm F/2 and 23mm F/2 focus even faster which may be what you are looking for. You will lose one stop of light going with the F/2 versus the F/1.4. What this means is if you were in lower light, and you had your 10-24mm on your cameras and you were shooting at F/4 at 23mm, ISO set at 200, aperture set to F/4, and your shutter speed was 1/30 resulting in motion blur, if you didn't change anything other than the lens, it would remain the same. However if you put the 23mm F/2 on the camera and set the aperture to F/2,8, your shutter speed would become 1/60 or if you set it to F/2, it would become 1/125. The challenge is that you lose depth of field which means the amount it focus is less. I don't think that will be an issue for you, unless the kids are moving fast.

[ljcarr]

Cheers nick05, that's exactly what i thought.

Edited January 31, 2017 by ljcarr