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Do we tolerate the bodies because of the lens qualities?

Lens Fuji quality

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#1 frankinfuji

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 09:52 AM

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There's been many threads about faults with various Fuji cameras, and many queries where people have issues created by illogical menu options. There's also some issues with peeling rubber coatings, warped doors, hot batteries and worn paint finishes, plus the regular discussions on how to encourage our cameras to focus on anything that moves - yet we all stick with Fuji. Is that because we like our favourite lenses so much, we tolerate the unreliable bodies?

Yesterday evening was a good example, my X-E2 would not work properly with the flash (shutter release stopped responding, then it over exposed the shots), and Face Detection resulted in 50% of the shots with background in perfect focus. But after removing the flasgun, disabling face detection and switching to the 35mm prime, I got a shot that was just what I wanted.

Are other systems as problematic?

If it were not for your favourite Fuji lenses, would you stick with Fuji bodies?

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#2 johant

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 10:45 AM

Apart from an issue with my X-PRO1, which was solved by Fujifilm Service, I have not had any problems with the Fujifilm cameras.
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#3 perfis

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 01:09 PM

Apart from rubber coatings getting loose (the thumb rest on my X-T10 fell off completely but was replaced by Fuji) I have absolutely no complaints, quietly the contrary. The looks and handling of the camera is first class.
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#4 kimcarsons

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 06:33 PM

You hit the nail on the head for me. If Pentax/Ricoh made a camera that accepted Fuji lenses (or better yet, Pentax made rebranded versions with the Fuji optics, but Pentax build quality and weather sealing), I think it would be a no brainer to buy that instead of a Fuji body.

 

Poor ergonomics, flaky firmware, questionable build quality, premium price. But it's worth it for access to the Fujinon lenses (at this point).

 

However, Fuji needs to watch out because Sigma has also figured out how to make sharp (and faster!) lenses for APS-C. Samyang is making some killer stuff now too, and it's only a matter of time before that includes autofocus.


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#5 mdm

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 07:35 PM

not going to argue with critics, just say I'm quite satisfied with Fuji, otherwise I'd simply switch over to somewhere else.


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#6 cosinaphile

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Posted 31 December 2016 - 08:38 PM

i like fuji bodies , my 2 favorite being  the xe2 and x30...i have less fun with my xpro2 , and im very fond of my x100s\x100 also,the problems mentioned are found in all makers cameras  nikon canon olympus etc alll have their share of issues 

 

but the fuji bodies , in spite of somewhat illogical menus  have controls schemes i consider essential with ss and aperture dials that are almost unique in the industry .they have  quality evfs and styling and superior build quality ,materials  and heritage [ japanese construction] at an affordable cost..... this synergy is unique  in the industry

 

the quality lenses .... best kit lens in history.... build and optics is great too... legacy lens friendliness...yes 

but  the lenses would mean less to me on a sony body or canikon  plastic amorphous  meteorite  formfactor etc.

 

 the fuji body and lens pairing is close to ideal , as far as im concerned 


Edited by cosinaphile, 31 December 2016 - 08:41 PM.

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#7 Florian

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 05:48 PM

No complaints here on build quality and menu-logic in my x-pro1.

 

I will get into situations the camera's automation cannot handle. What I like in fuji's cameras is that, so far, in every such case I can understand what is going wrong and quickly take control of the camera to correct this (or just take control before the camera gets a chance to get it wrong :) )

 

For example, in your shot I would have immediately used back-button focus/manual focus with focus peaking, spot metering with manual placement of the focus spot. Probably use automatic settings for shutter speed and iso at the first try and use the manual controls if it didn't immediately expose properly.


Edited by Florian, 01 January 2017 - 06:00 PM.

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#8 kimcarsons

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 06:41 PM

No complaints here on build quality and menu-logic in my x-pro1.

 

I will get into situations the camera's automation cannot handle. What I like in fuji's cameras is that, so far, in every such case I can understand what is going wrong and quickly take control of the camera to correct this (or just take control before the camera gets a chance to get it wrong :) )

 

For example, in your shot I would have immediately used back-button focus/manual focus with focus peaking, spot metering with manual placement of the focus spot. Probably use automatic settings for shutter speed and iso at the first try and use the manual controls if it didn't immediately expose properly.

 

I'll agree that the build quality of the X-Pro1 is pretty good. That was before Fuji started trying to add side doors :-)

 

The thing with all the automation is... That's the whole selling point of the cameras. The IQ of the X-Pro1 is fine. One buys the newer cameras for the promise of being able to get shots where there's not enough time available to go through the procedures you mention. But they don't really deliver on the promise.


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#9 Florian

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 08:14 PM

I'll agree that the build quality of the X-Pro1 is pretty good. That was before Fuji started trying to add side doors :-)

 

The thing with all the automation is... That's the whole selling point of the cameras. The IQ of the X-Pro1 is fine. One buys the newer cameras for the promise of being able to get shots where there's not enough time available to go through the procedures you mention. But they don't really deliver on the promise.

 

Heh, for me the selling point was precisely the option of being able to quickly override the automation so you can get the shot just fine, even with those procedures ^_^ (that's what all the dials are for, after all). I hate it when my gear makes it difficult to change the settings when it thinks it knows better than me.



#10 frod

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Posted 01 January 2017 - 09:14 PM

Besides the exasperating XF60mm lens, I've been perfectly happy with every combination of Fuji kit I've had, but I don't bother with the new aids, I doubt if they'll ever be able to read my mind quicker than I can operate the manual controls. It's really just a case of sticking with one body and minimal lenses until operation of the device is second nature. New bodies really just mean quicker startup, recycling and improved sensor limits.

The aperture ring is for composing in the third dimension, not removing it!


#11 asathor

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 07:00 AM

I bought the XE-1 first and have continued to like the E body but the X-Pro2 is growing on me even though it is missing the built in "fill flash." Of the 4 bodies I have none of them have broken, worn out or malfunctioned, although one did suffer abuse by me which Fuji fixed.

 

The Fuji optics are great but the magic is in in the combination - if it was just the glass the other camera maker would offer Fujifilm grade .jpg SOOC because they all have several (some many) superb lenses.

 

They used to call it pedigree and I think Fujifilm has nailed it; grab any one lens and any one body and take some pictures w/o worrying about what else you could have had in your bag, if you know the craft you will be rewarded with keepers.

 

Knowing what each body can and can't do falls under the heading of Home Work, of course I am so old that I go back to the time when the camera operator had to decide which part of a persons face to focus on and how to set the depth of field for the shot to work.


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#12 tractorboyx

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 09:53 AM

I own 2 Fuji bodies, an X-T1 and X-E2s, and lots of lens.

 

But like others, I have had issues with the rubber on the X-T1, which took a lot of discussions/arguing :angry:  with Fuji to get resolved.

This is something I have never experienced with either Canon or Pentax cameras.

 

Would I swap my lens and bodies? Not a chance.

The lens are just amazing, the X-E2s :)  also , probably the best camera I have ever owned, point and shoot or fully manual, it does everything.

The X-T1.......a premium camera, that does it all, shame it wasn't built like.

 

To answer your question - yes. Love my X-E2s and 23/1.4



#13 frankinfuji

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 10:17 AM

Looking at the comments it looks to me like the Fuji X series attracts experienced photographers (because of the traditional manual controls and the quality of the lenses), so we know how to work around the issues by switching to manual or using previously assigned back buttons for some nifty focus control, and of course RAW to avoud the much discussed waxy skin.

But I don't remember having to work around shortcomings with my Canon or Lumix systems. I still suspect we either tolerate or are happy to work around the issues because we have a favourite lens that other systems cannot match.

Mine's the 35 f1.4 and surprisingly the cheap 27mm that was my first Fuji prime.
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#14 Florian

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Posted 02 January 2017 - 02:01 PM

Looking at the comments it looks to me like the Fuji X series attracts experienced photographers (because of the traditional manual controls and the quality of the lenses), so we know how to work around the issues by switching to manual or using previously assigned back buttons for some nifty focus control, and of course RAW to avoud the much discussed waxy skin.

But I don't remember having to work around shortcomings with my Canon or Lumix systems. I still suspect we either tolerate or are happy to work around the issues because we have a favourite lens that other systems cannot match.

Mine's the 35 f1.4 and surprisingly the cheap 27mm that was my first Fuji prime.

 

I don't think I view it as working around the limitations as much as being in actual control of the shot - every camera I've taken shots with will often deliver automatic settings different from what I want at that moment. Maybe I am working around the limitations as well now, but if they are there I don't notice much difference in the amount of the limitations compared to other systems. I do notice the difference in the time spent changing settings ^_^, with the fuji comparing favourably.

 

As for the lens: I mostly use adapted lenses on my x-pro1, my favourite being the nokton 40mm for m mount and only the second favourite being a fuji (23mmf1.4).



#15 Nick05

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 12:17 AM

I have had quite a few Fujifilm bodies and the only camera I had any issues with was my X100T which was fixed by Fujifilm. I would not say my experience was without quirks, but they seem to have worked all them out now. I was really happy with the improvements they made to the X-T1, but I had kept one of my old Canons as a just in case. When I bought the X-Pro2, I knew it was time to sell the Canon gear. My X-Pro2 did the reset once when I first got it, but it has been perfect since. My X-T2 has not had any issues. I think the lenses are great, but I've been very happy with their bodies as well.

#16 Aswald

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 04:18 AM

There's been many threads about faults with various Fuji cameras, and many queries where people have issues created by illogical menu options. There's also some issues with peeling rubber coatings, warped doors, hot batteries and worn paint finishes, plus the regular discussions on how to encourage our cameras to focus on anything that moves - yet we all stick with Fuji. Is that because we like our favourite lenses so much, we tolerate the unreliable bodies?

Yesterday evening was a good example, my X-E2 would not work properly with the flash (shutter release stopped responding, then it over exposed the shots), and Face Detection resulted in 50% of the shots with background in perfect focus. But after removing the flasgun, disabling face detection and switching to the 35mm prime, I got a shot that was just what I wanted.

Are other systems as problematic?

If it were not for your favourite Fuji lenses, would you stick with Fuji bodies?

attachicon.gifDSC_3235.jpg

 

This looks like an issue with the strong light source in the background. Similar to shooting strong backlit subjects. I've had some issues with with sunset backlit portraits even with the Pro2. I suspect most other cameras would have a 50-50 chance of mistracking under similar circumstances.

 

Before Fujifilm I tried SONY a7ii, 7Rii, 7s, OMD E-M1, Leica Q, M, 240 and to be frank, all of these cameras offer some "magic".....if..... you can accept their many other shortfalls. What is the "best" for you would depend on which suite you are willing to live with. For instance, if I can have Leica lenses mated and working well to the Pro2 body, I would do that.


Edited by Aswald, 04 January 2017 - 04:25 AM.

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#17 johant

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 11:43 AM

Today I decided that my X-T1 / 18-135 kit goes back to Fujifilm. There is so much rotational play that the viewfinder blacks out when I zoom the lens :(

I hope they will be able to fix either the lens or the camera!

#18 johant

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 11:43 AM

Today I decided that my X-T1 / 18-135 kit goes back to Fujifilm. There is so much rotational play that the viewfinder blacks out when I zoom the lens :(

I hope they will be able to fix either the lens or the camera!

#19 johant

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 11:43 AM

Today I decided that my X-T1 / 18-135 kit goes back to Fujifilm. There is so much rotational play that the viewfinder blacks out when I zoom the lens :(

I hope they will be able to fix either the lens or the camera!

#20 kimcarsons

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 05:48 PM

Heh, that's another thing. I have never had play between lens and mount with *ANY* camera system in my life. Then I get to Fuji and find the lens mounts are aluminium (one step up from plastic) not brass or stainless steel and, moreover, the tolerances are so poor they all wiggle (often enough that the electrical connections break and the camera doesn't recognize that a lens is attached. Sure, you can get used to this kind of thing, but "built like a tank" it isn't.




 
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