a successful adapted 6400 mh battery pack for fuji x system ILC`s

[cosinaphile]

well i know many users of the x pro 2 wish it had a larger capacity  battery than the np 126 ... i certainly do .

 

recently i got the idea to try using off the shelf large capacity batteries designed for high drain applications and decided on the well trusted 18650 which look like a AA battery on steroids  

 

18650  are 18mm diam.    65mm in length  and o shape in cross section  they vary wildly in quality  due to cheap chinese imports and bootlegs ...but a trusted retailer can supply good ones for about 10 - 15 usd each  thy vary in mah from about  2000 to 3400 mah and all output about 3.7 volts [ mine tested 4.14 and 4.19 on 2 cells ] i used new nitecores x2  [3200mh] 

 

my first adapted battery is experimental  ...2 nitecores 18650  in series 3.7v x 2 for 7.4 volts   the plastic shell of an expired aftermarket battery  some speaker wire  and surgical tape [clear]

i purchased a new xa1 on craigslist for 100 dollars  and inserted the battery shell with the proper polarity wires in place it was tight   but it closed up nicely with the wires exiting the compartment at the tabbed corner,,,  the batteries and wire leads boud up together as tightly as possible  both were 100 % charged

 

i didnt want to risk my x pro 2 or xe2... so the guinea pig  was the xa1 with a pentax 50mm 1.7 legacy lens in m mode 

 

the test 

 

i turned on the camera and  was delighted  to see the LCD panel lit and ready  

 

first part  200 shots with flash with pauses for simulated  chimping scrolling enlarging  the 1000  shots 

high speed the some chimping  another 100 flash shots   another 1000 high speed shots ect etc etc also tried various other modes     various bracketing  single  burst multi   and so on . 

 

finall tally 10,070 shots  lots of chimping and reviewing   500 flash shot  and i was tired   2 hours in i decided to see how much juice  remained 

 

the nitecore charger reported the 2 batteries has 83 and 84 percent power remaining  after the test

the xa2 never showed the battery below full.

 

before the test the 2 batteries reported  about 4.14 v after test 3.97..... i estimate the cells could easily 

50,000 to 60,000 shots with many hours of chimping  the camera got a little warm after about 5000 shots   but the batteries remains cool the whole test

 

im very please d with this first test .....thoughts anyone 

 

on to a real battery pack for my x pro 2...........

Edited July 7, 2016 by cosinaphile

[Larry Bolch]

I can change the battery in my X-Pro1 in 30 seconds or less. What is the issue?

[mqaa]

And in the 30 secs the magic moment comes along and you mis it... Agree that it is not a real issue but it would be nice if the batteries lasted longer. Nice experiment!

[milandro]

Well, than the argument of the longer lasting battery to capture “ the magic moment" is a faulty one because IT can can anytime, after 250, 500, 1000 shots.

 

I am not aware of any fixed intervals for magic moments they can be just before you shoot the first shot or at any time after you’ve gone somewhere else.

 

More batteries only encourages shooting like mad and then having to sieve through thousands of shots that are all the same. 

 

I’ve shot extensively with 4 x 5 and 8 x 10 cameras often shooting 2 pictures or any given subject because of the time it took and the cost of the material.

 

Since then I see people shooting like mad things that would require no more than a shot. I recently visited a friend. I shot 3 portraits, 2 were usable, one was perfect for my needs. Don’t live the illusion that shooting more will make you take any better pictures.

 

There are situations in which this has a place (like people wanting to mount multiple shots together) but the majority would benefit from thinking more and shooting less.

[mqaa]

Well, than the argument of the longer lasting battery to capture “ the magic moment" is a faulty one because IT can can anytime, after 250, 500, 1000 shots.

Well you charge it before you go out and don't have to think about it for the rest of the day. You can charge it again when you are back home. So you don't need to change batteries when you are out and about so you will not mis the 'the magic moment'.

Edited July 7, 2016 by mqaa

[milandro]

but the point is precisely that there is no way to know when that is! At some point, unless it is an infinite battery you will have to change battery and the “ magic moment” might be exactly then! How would you know?

 

Having larger battery capacity only encourages to shoot more and think less.

[cosinaphile]

I can change the battery in my X-Pro1 in 30 seconds or less. What is the issue?

there is no issue .... i find swapping batteries a pain .......i always keep 5 in my backpack ....i also find batteries  crap out at the worst times...which is of course murphys law in action ........

 

i suspect these batteries will allow all day and night shooting with endless  chimping and endless flashing [on xe2] that may be of value to some ....it certainly is to me .....your mileage may vary.... the fact that many pro sustems offer battery packs \grips speak to the need  for some users for such a device

[cosinaphile]

but the point is precisely that there is no way to know when that is! At some point, unless it is an infinite battery you will have to change battery and the “ magic moment” might be exactly then! How would you know?

 

Having larger battery capacity only encourages to shoot more and think less.

for an important project  like a wedding or paid party shoot  or for being away from a power supply i can imagine  the ability to use 

ones camera without worrying about losing power every 2 to 5 hours is a blessing   and beyond that this is incredibly economical  vs

fuji cells np 126 or even the cheapest aftermarket clones... thats my take 

 

not having to think about the battery meter meens you can focus  on shooting its why wedding pros for instance use larger batteries in the professional systems that offer them 

 

i consider the x pro 2 a professional system ... so does fuji apparently with its dual sd slots...  a mirrorless first .... the battery life of the x pro is its weakest link imho  and i now know this can  be overcome

[milandro]

I’ve shot important assignments on film in a 35 year long career, including few weddings. I’ve never exceeded the amount of shots that I could achieve with one camera and one battery and I will certainly have two bodies with me on an important job.

 

You can have already over 600 shots ( raw + jpeg on a card  I don’t know of any job that would require, for me to not have time to change a battery or to change a card) mileage varies, but there is a whole lot of whining going on if you ask me.

 

As I wrote, shooting less makes you think more and you learn to be efficient.

Edited July 7, 2016 by milandro

[cosinaphile]

And in the 30 secs the magic moment comes along and you mis it... Agree that it is not a real issue but it would be nice if the batteries lasted longer. Nice experiment!

thanks ........  im now thinking about a logical  elegant  design befitting the xpro design

 

 i think im gonna use a fuji modified    black 1\2 case with the bottom leather panel containing battery leather door removed   or modified i also want to add a lock screw to the tripod socket thru the 1\2 case for  a secure hold

[cosinaphile]

I’ve shot important assignments on film in a 35 year long career, including few weddings. I’ve never exceeded the amount of shots that I could achieve with one camera and one battery and I will certainly have two bodies with me on an important job.

 

You can have already over 600 shots ( raw + jpeg on a card  I don’t know of any job that would require, for me to not have time to change a battery or to change a card) mileage varies, but there is a whole lot of whining going on if you ask me.

 

As I wrote, shooting less makes you think more and you learn to be efficient.

surely this is not for you .....lol...... thats pretty clear  .....

 

if you think  changing a battery while a wedding party poses , waiting  is fun , then   more power to you ...i do not .

 

to repeat an extended battery grip is a component of every serious dslr system.... you may  be perfectly satisfied with the poor battery across the mirrorless spectrum [ 50 percent less on avg ]than dslr . but im not . and our differing opines  are simply  2 points of view on the issue 

 

whet i dont understand  is your clear hostility  on the matter

 

 if this thread didnt interest you   then why are you here  commenting  .........whining ? as you say?

Edited July 7, 2016 by cosinaphile

[milandro]

whining as in when offering the  solution to a problem that could simply be avoided by some wise shooting as opposed to hundreds of the same shot being fired for no reason using up battery that could be easily saved.

 

Yeas ago I was shooting ( 120 film 6 x 7 cm, 10 shots per roll)  the crew of a cruise ship, the flag had to fly all open but of course it would keep on rolling on the mast, I got 9 shots wrong and one right, lucky shot.

 

Anyway, if you must look at this

 

 

I know it is crazy, but some of you don’t seem to have enough “ power” from batteries and cant’ spare the few seconds it takes to change one.

 

Now it even looks like the X-T2 batteries can be recharged within in the camera.

 

Incredible though this is the solution (Sic!) is a photovoltaic charger in the shape of a backpack.

 

http://www.voltaicsystems.com/solar-camera-charger

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2016 by milandro

[cosinaphile]

i began this thread as the discussion of an experiment for the use of a pair 18650  lithium rechargable for a  extended battery  for all day shooting possibly 2 day shooting with alll day camera on and lots of review   chimping  and in camera raw processing ..., a benefit , in my eyes  

 

and correcting the problem of an under-powered system battery  the np 126.....

 

i dont know why this has devolved into the merits  of economical shooting  and the criticism of shooting a lot of images ..... there is no   "right "  way to shoot   some might try to treat a digital apsc  as a view camera and shoot 2 images   and some might  blast a series of  30 shots during  a  moment of intense  sports action multiple times during the day   and the rest of the faithful something in between  slow and methodical is something i enjoy  i also like to shoot high speed for  action shots sometimes 

 

heres a simple truth to wrap your head around:   canon and nikon and pentax slr batteries  are  1800   1900 mah  [7.2 to 7.4v]

 power cells.... close to double the typical mirrorless cell   which i believe to be  the most valid criticism   of mirrorless in general  by those considering a switch. 

 

the backpack solar array is interesting   but  im sure  my homemade   battery base  will work fine  while adding  less than 1\2 inch to the base of my   x pro 2 ... the highly rated nitecores   are SAFE, PROTECTED, and  fully compliant with modern safety battery standards ,,, something i cannot claim for aftermarket np 126   china  cells which i now use ........ i will not buy  60 dollar fuji np126 cells.

 

i intend to do a real world test on the x pro 2  [ not the xa1 again ]  to see how long they last  in my regular usage patterns  [ i use single shot  with chimping and in camera raw processing mostly  ].

 

 i suspect  1 to 2 days shooting   keeping 5 fuji batteries  or 3 at all times  and making sure the charge is full

is a chore id sooner not do

Edited July 7, 2016 by cosinaphile

[milandro]

Talking about “ shooting wisely” is due to the fact that uneconomical shooting is part of the problem. of needing more energy.

 

If you shoot uneconomically you waste power! Shoot wisely and you use power at his best.

 

I can see how a prolific shooter would need to be powering his camera with the backpack,  you never know how much battery you might want to use, every man needs his energy! 

 

By the way, for entirely different reasons ( battery drain from cold) Pentax camera were powered from an external source already when the Pentax LX was around ( mid ’70) , same for motor drives which were real battery gobblers.

 

Anyway, you can hook this cable to yor Fuji camera and with the USB to a power bank ( instead of the plug shown in the image) , this is, I think, already possible...right?

 

Edited July 7, 2016 by milandro

[cosinaphile]

Talking about “ shooting wisely” is due to the fact that uneconomical shooting is part of the problem. of needing more energy.

 

If you shoot uneconomically you waste power! Shoot wisely and you use power at his best.

 

I can see how a prolific shooter would need to be powering his camera with the backpack,  you never know how much battery you might want to use, every man needs his energy! 

 

By the way, for entirely different reasons ( battery drain from cold) Pentax camera were powered from an external source already when the Pentax LX was around ( mid ’70) , same for motor drives which were real battery gobblers.

respectfully disagree ..... the problem  is  this : 

 

canon slr  battery     1865mh at 7.4v                                                                            

  

nikon dslr battery     1900mh  at 7.4v                  vs    fuji battery   1200mn at 7.2

 

pentax  dslr battery  1860mh at  7.2v

 

the complaint about the general upderpowering of mirrorless cameras is well known and widely discussed  ......

further  as cool as the solar backpack seems ....it is not practical for many reasons size , solar  dependence  clumsiness   unwieldy wiring

 

 a powerful  low profile  under the camera power supply  delivering  at least triple the np 126 is what im building for the  xpro 2 and my xe2 ...also  im gonna explore Ultrafire 14500 900mAh 3.6V Unprotected Lithium Ion times 4  

for  3600mh as these cells are exacly the size of AA batteries  so a 4 cell array will be flatter than  the 2 cell 18650  on the case compartment im making 

 

honestly..... the problem has nothing to do with the way people shoot  and everything to do with fujis choice of a 1200 mh  battery  for a camera the calibre of the x pro 2  ..... a well known issue

Edited July 7, 2016 by cosinaphile

[cosinaphile]

    btw

 

the lx was a sweet camera   .... i always yearned for one 

[milandro]

well, I’ve never run out of juice, must be me...

[cosinaphile]

if you honed your teeth on a view camera   ... economy in shooting is very sensible

[milandro]

where I’ve studied photography some of us shot even fashion with 4 x 5 or 8 x 10.

 

I shot portraits and still life with both.

 

We were allocated a certain amount of film ( and studio time) and that was IT. 

[Larry Bolch]

And in the 30 secs the magic moment comes along and you mis it... Agree that it is not a real issue but it would be nice if the batteries lasted longer. Nice experiment!

 

No, there are always pauses no matter what you are shooting. When the low battery warning appears, at the next pause I make the change. Never have I missed a shot while changing batteries. (A decade and a half covering motorsports with film. Only 24-36 images on a roll, so timing was critical.)

[yazri]

People who shoot efficiently might also be opposing the idea of bigger memory cards and only use 250MB ones, while swapping every 5 shots.  Sure we don't know when the magic moment is but the less need for swapping, the less the chance we'd miss it. Yes, you might not have missed it for as long as you have been shooting, but it doesn't apply to everyone. If something can happen, it probably will, one way or another. 

 

Anyhoo, for me, improvements are always welcome. I wish for more durable batteries as well. Would be useful when going camping - I wouldn't have to worry as much about the battery. Good job OP. 

[kim]

Love to see more of your design on this, great experimental idea to be able to sling a few thousand shots without loosing power. I lost a shot last weekend due to that big red flashing battery icon jumping out and punching me in the face. Even thought I had the battery changed faster then a politician changes the subject, that moment was gone. Not a big deal but it all helps. Good luck.

Edited July 8, 2016 by kim

[milandro]

No, there are always pauses no matter what you are shooting. When the low battery warning appears, at the next pause I make the change. Never have I missed a shot while changing batteries. (A decade and a half covering motorsports with film. Only 24-36 images on a roll, so timing was critical.)

 

 

It got even worse when shooting weddings on a 6 x 6! I wasn’t a wedding photographer but before my generation all weddings were shot with a Rolleiflex. Even if you had a 220 film at most you’d get 24 shots and there was no film back to quickly replace as you then had with the Hasselblad and similar cameras.

 

You mentioned the 250 photograms back... which required a dark room (or at least a changing bag) to be replaced (unless you had two and I don’t know of too many rich people being able to afford two). Never used one they were only for scientific applications.

 

Times are definitely “ A" changing and not necessarily for the best. A recent ad on Dutch telly promotes the use of a certain fast internet “ Not because I need ( it) but because ( it) can be done”, apply to anything liberally.

 

 

even a 10.000 shots battery needs being replaced at some point and that will be the moment that someone, somewhere will miss a shot...

 

No matter where you place the buck the re is always a “ moment” after that!

Edited July 9, 2016 by milandro

[cosinaphile]

Love to see more of your design on this, great experimental idea to be able to sling a few thousand shots without loosing power. I lost a shot last weekend due to that big red flashing battery icon jumping out and punching me in the face. Even thought I had the battery changed faster then a politician changes the subject, that moment was gone. Not a big deal but it all helps. Good luck.

its very easy   2 good quality 18650 cell   3200 mh  in serial arrangement [stacked so to speak neg of one touching the positive of another ]   or if the cells are next to each other  they are head to toe  .....link the batts with a tiny wire on one side and the positive and neg at the other end go to the respective terminals in the batt compartment [ look at a battery legend to see which is which ]   so 2 longer wires connected to a dummy cell  i used a dead cell case   but you could fashion anything that would fill the compartment while holding the wires in position of the battery contacts   i literally put the wire ends  at the positions and taped em up  ..later ill use hot melt glue to fashion a permanent dummy cell with leads  and a proper compartment for  the cells offered many places on the internet for 1.50 to 3.50 usd  ....looks like an oversized AA battery chamber with leads 

[cosinaphile]

It got even worse when shooting weddings on a 6 x 6! I wasn’t a wedding photographer but before my generation all weddings were shot with a Rolleiflex. Even if you had a 220 film at most you’d get 24 shots and there was no film back to quickly replace as you then had with the Hasselblad and similar cameras.

 

You mentioned the 250 photograms back... which required a dark room (or at least a changing bag) to be replaced (unless you had two and I don’t know of too many rich people being able to afford two). Never used one they were only for scientific applications.

 

Times are definitely “ A" changing and not necessarily for the best. A recent ad on Dutch telly promotes the use of a certain fast internet “ Not because I need ( it) but because ( it) can be done”, apply to anything liberally.

 

 

even a 10.000 shots battery needs being replaced at some point and that will be the moment that someone, somewhere will miss a shot...

 

No matter where you place the buck the re is always a “ moment” after that!

obviously cells need to be changed  eventually ....

 

but  assignment to assignment  ... or day to day   this  extended battery base  has the potential to allow   , any  shoot , assignment ,or  just a full day out just doing your thing,  to proceed uninterrupted , without the concern  or hassle of losing power or keeping multiple np126s topped off and ready

 

thats really all the concern i have ... i feel acutely ,the sense that my np126s both my 3 fujis and many aftermarkets die way to soon in my x pro 2 ... it is a real and present issue for me , hence my experiment 

Edited July 9, 2016 by cosinaphile