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Have Fuji ditched old x series Xe 1 and x pro 1 no sign of any updates???


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Most likely for the X-E1 update, we will never see it. Most of the new features implemented in the new processor, but one that is X-E1 probably will not be able to support it. Companies need to recognize that it stopped supporting this machine or to report whether there are any plans to support.

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well, everything is gone very quite indeed about the older Fuji X cameras. The potential for some update is there, obviously, but to me, it would only stand to reason if the updating of the older models would stay limited and at some time or other one would have to make a choice and upgrade or keep on working within the by that  (or perhaps this) time reached “ limits” of the older camera.

 

There should be no shame in doing this and for most of us this won’t really mean much since the capabilities of those cameras way exceed the needs of most week-end-warriors.

 

Classic chrome would be probably easily added to those cameras which don’t have it yet but, possibly, the new fast autofocus won’t be part of the upgrades offered to those cameras.

 

 

Let’s face it, these cameras have reached many people and Fuji would make them happy to revive a camera several years old, but since they eat every day at Fuji as you and I do, but there is only so much that you can eat now with the money that you’ve earned  3-4-5-6 years ago( + all the costs of developing new software), so at some stage the Kaizen for older cameras will stop.

 

I have several older Macintosh computers which still work but their software is no longer been updated. I can used an older Agfa scanner on an older Mac and use Garage band on that Mac to record music but it won’t even be wise to go on the internet ( it still works) because that OS is no longer protected from malicious users.

 

But I am still happily using those computers to do the things that they can do.

 

The X-Pro 1 is been sold now in my part of the world in a kit with two lenses ( 18mm, 27mm) leather cases for camera and lenses for €899 which is a lot less than the X-Pro 1 alone costed a few years ago.

I think that the Kaizen for that camera has very likely reached its sell by date or thereabouts.

 

 

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It's obvious that Fuji cannot allocate so much resources to old cameras (3 years old) when they have already put so much effort to improve them and have so much to develop still (compact 35 and 23mm F/2, maybe an update of the 18mm, X-PRO2, X-E3 etc. etc.)

 

I think it's quite annoying that so much people are shouting "GIVE ME CLASSIC CHROME OR ELSE..." when they already had so much improvements, pushing the hardware to the limits of what it can do, and keeping in mind that people actually bought this cameras either not giving a damn about jpegs because they use raw, or buying them for the FUJI film simulations, not kodak. They bought them as they were, no reason to complain.

 

So really it's just a bad case of envy. They had too much already I think from Fuji, they just can't stop wanting MOARRRR.

 

And anyway if I were Fuji, why would I ever bring an old camera in line with the newest model so everybody can get it used for 200$? I wouldn't, nobody would.

 

People could very well enjoy their X-E1 + 50mm F/1.4 for the next 5 years if they were really interrested in photography itself, instead of thinking that not having Classic Chrome limits their creativity...

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Actually, on the X-Pro1 there's been really one major firmware update to address it's sluggish AF. The rest are updates to get rid of bugs which weren't supposed to be there in the first place.

 

Asking for Classic Chrome, which I believe is a software plug in, isn't too much to ask for a flagship camera like the X-Pro1.

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Actually, Classic Chrome on the Pro1 is an awful lot to ask. You're not going to see Classic Chrome on the E1 or Pro1 because the X-Trans I sensors inside them are not capable of supporting the profile; you can only put the current Classic Chrome profile on cameras which use an X-Trans II sensor. Fuji would need to remake Classic Chrome specifically for the older cameras, which would make no sense for them to do given the E1 was replaced by the E2 in 2013 and the Pro1 is about to be replaced by the Pro2. (And many would argue it already has been replaced by the X-T1.) You're basically asking them to throw away time and money.

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I really don't think there's much difference between x-trans 1 and x-trans 2 except for a slight repositioning of their pixel arrangements and AF detection. I've been to their product seminar and briefings and when I posed to them this question, there's always this squint with a very generic answer that implies very little has changed.

 

Also, film simulation does not happen on the sensor. The sensor outputs raw files which then get converted to jpeg, simulated. So, it is software algorithm which is applied to the files. If anything it happens in the processing engines. Fujifilm knows colors very well. If they wanted to, they can easily do it. They same guy who was in charge of their film formulation is in charge of their digital color formulation currently.

 

When probed further, the Japanese chief engineers will always say, "ummmm...maybe later, not so soon". But they never said no or that it could not be done on x-trans 1.

 

That's the thing, if "the future of LEICAs is in Fujifilm's X System" then Fujifilm shouldn't jump into the 3 year obsolete regime that's killing so many other camera companies.....killing themselves that is.

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That's the thing, if "the future of LEICAs is in Fujifilm's X System" then Fujifilm shouldn't jump into the 3 year obsolete regime that's killing so many other camera companies.....killing themselves that is.

Mate for the price of 1 leica you can have 5 xt-1 so let's assume they each last you 4 years that's 20 years of great hardware with 5 upgrades, it's not a bad deal and they don't kill themselves at all.

 

Especially not when their own lenses are the best for the x-mount system, and digital has still to evolve a lot unlike film ;)

 

I for one am happy with my x-e1, it's not manufactured anymore yeah so what, I have a lot to improve on my photography before labeling it as not good enough, besides glass is more important if you're into something artistict than AF performance. Xpro-1 and Xe-1 are for people who want to slow down and it has always been that way.

 

CC is nice, I can see myself using it for family/travel just keeping the jpegs because raws are just too big, but a bad picture won't turn great just because I apply a color profile so meh, you got to be rational sometimes. A great picture in pro neg-hi, slightly desaturated remains a great picture, putting cc on it won't change much (I tried).

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Fuji can't maintain new firmware updates for all models forever, the cost of testing and quality control is huge compared to the cost of developing the piece of code that embodies the Classic Chrome feature. The X-Pro 1 was good when it first came out and now it's so much better.
A camera doesn't suddenly go bad because it lacks the latest bells & whistles.. it's all in the mind  ;)

Unless you just want JPG Classic Chrome straight out of the camera you can use the free Adobe DNG Profile Editor together with a color card to create a Classic Chrome Camera Profile to apply on the RAW files using Lightroom or Camera RAW in Photoshop.

I've made one for X-Pro 1 and X100s. The x100s one is almost spot on when I diff with the CC JPG,

but since I converted my X-Pro 1 to Infrared I haven't verified the accuracy of it.

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Xe1 is still a very capable camera. It's slow compared to my 7d but it can focus more acuratelly wide open @ 1.4. In terms of wb accuracy its miles away from any dslr.

We all have to accept that fuji at some point will have to abandon the early models in favour of the later ones in order to be profitable as company and be able to develop new competitive models.

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I can understand that fuji does not want to upgrade the x e1 and x pro 1 to the level of the xe2 or xt1 but simple upgrades like color focus peaking (red and yellow) wouldn´t hurt the sale of the said cameras.

 

I fully agree. As it is, I'm looking at the X-Pro2 when it comes.

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Mate for the price of 1 leica you can have 5 xt-1 so let's assume they each last you 4 years that's 20 years of great hardware with 5 upgrades, it's not a bad deal and they don't kill themselves at all.

 

Especially not when their own lenses are the best for the x-mount system, and digital has still to evolve a lot unlike film ;)

 

I for one am happy with my x-e1, it's not manufactured anymore yeah so what, I have a lot to improve on my photography before labeling it as not good enough, besides glass is more important if you're into something artistict than AF performance. Xpro-1 and Xe-1 are for people who want to slow down and it has always been that way.

 

CC is nice, I can see myself using it for family/travel just keeping the jpegs because raws are just too big, but a bad picture won't turn great just because I apply a color profile so meh, you got to be rational sometimes. A great picture in pro neg-hi, slightly desaturated remains a great picture, putting cc on it won't change much (I tried).

I guess it is as much market trend as it is consumer demand that generally people see the need to change cameras as they go along.

 

I'm happy with X-Pro1 and I bought it as a keeper. It would be nice to have CC on something I intend to keep for a while. Right now I'm a happy camper. If Fujifilm adds CC to older cameras, I'd be a very happy camper.

 

I agree with you that CC will not make a bad pic good but it may make a good pic, outstanding. It's just nice to have options to play around with.

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I really don't think there's much difference between x-trans 1 and x-trans 2 except for a slight repositioning of their pixel arrangements and AF detection. I've been to their product seminar and briefings and when I posed to them this question, there's always this squint with a very generic answer that implies very little has changed.

 

Also, film simulation does not happen on the sensor. The sensor outputs raw files which then get converted to jpeg, simulated. So, it is software algorithm which is applied to the files. If anything it happens in the processing engines. Fujifilm knows colors very well. If they wanted to, they can easily do it. They same guy who was in charge of their film formulation is in charge of their digital color formulation currently.

It really is not that simple, at all. I've successfully ported Classic Chrome to the X100S and only managed that because it's internally the same cameras the X100T, which I copied the profile out of. It can't be applied to an X-Trans I sensor camera because the information coming off that sensor is different; it would be a completely garbled mess. The interpretation of that information, even within the camera, to create an image, is different.

 

Let me put it this way: let's say you have a translator which converts all 1s into 2s. You run the following sequence of 0s and 1s through it:

001001001

That becomes

002002002

 

Now you take that same translation and you apply it to a different sequence:

010010010

Becomes

020020020

 

002002002 and 020020020 are not the same thing. You ran the information through the same type of conversion and that information contained the same number of 0s and 1s... but the initial information was in a different order, so your final result is still in a different order, too.

 

Now, obviously, that is a hugely simplified example of what's going on within these cameras. With a camera you're actually talking about interpretation and conversion of R, G and B values, millions of times over in every possible combination of values. But that just means it's even harder to end up with the same results when using the same conversion. Blues will come out aqua or purple, reds will come out orange or purple and greens will read as aqua or orange.

 

So. No, there is a huge difference between the X-Trans I and X-Tans II sensors when you're talking about how data is interpreted and converted into an image for RAW, let alone how colour profiling can be applied to that file—remember, those profiles are applied before the image is converted to a .jpg—and you can't just copy & paste a profile made for one generation of sensor to the previous one.

 

Yes, they could make a new profile from scratch which would deliver the same results but for the old sensors. This would take time and money and in the end be a watse of R&D which would not see them profit in any way. They would be throwing away resources on outdated hardware which they either don't make any money from (E1) or very soon will not make any money from (Pro1). You're literally asking them to spend money so you can have a new feature which will further ensure you are less likely to buy into a newer product from them. No company, ever, spends money to lower sales. That is absolute insanity.

 

This is, as I've noticed with certain other mediums, too, an unfortunate effect of giving people any free updates to any kind of hardware. People get one or two nice bonuses to begin with, things they were never promised or had dreamt of when they made their purchase, and then they get in a huff when, years down the line, you stop handing out freebies.

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It really is not that simple, at all. I've successfully ported Classic Chrome to the X100S and only managed that because it's internally the same cameras the X100T, which I copied the profile out of. It can't be applied to an X-Trans I sensor camera because the information coming off that sensor is different; it would be a completely garbled mess. The interpretation of that information, even within the camera, to create an image, is different.

 

Let me put it this way: let's say you have a translator which converts all 1s into 2s. You run the following sequence of 0s and 1s through it:

001001001

That becomes

002002002

 

Now you take that same translation and you apply it to a different sequence:

010010010

Becomes

020020020

 

002002002 and 020020020 are not the same thing. You ran the information through the same type of conversion and that information contained the same number of 0s and 1s... but the initial information was in a different order, so your final result is still in a different order, too.

 

Now, obviously, that is a hugely simplified example of what's going on within these cameras. With a camera you're actually talking about interpretation and conversion of R, G and B values, millions of times over in every possible combination of values. But that just means it's even harder to end up with the same results when using the same conversion. Blues will come out aqua or purple, reds will come out orange or purple and greens will read as aqua or orange.

 

So. No, there is a huge difference between the X-Trans I and X-Tans II sensors when you're talking about how data is interpreted and converted into an image for RAW, let alone how colour profiling can be applied to that file—remember, those profiles are applied before the image is converted to a .jpg—and you can't just copy & paste a profile made for one generation of sensor to the previous one.

 

Yes, they could make a new profile from scratch which would deliver the same results but for the old sensors. This would take time and money and in the end be a watse of R&D which would not see them profit in any way. They would be throwing away resources on outdated hardware which they either don't make any money from (E1) or very soon will not make any money from (Pro1). You're literally asking them to spend money so you can have a new feature which will further ensure you are less likely to buy into a newer product from them. No company, ever, spends money to lower sales. That is absolute insanity.

 

This is, as I've noticed with certain other mediums, too, an unfortunate effect of giving people any free updates to any kind of hardware. People get one or two nice bonuses to begin with, things they were never promised or had dreamt of when they made their purchase, and then they get in a huff when, years down the line, you stop handing out freebies.

No one said it was easy but it's definitely not impossible. Each sensor has it's digital algorithm and color profiles like CC can be programmed into it's native algorithm. Only one formulation is needed for all X-Trans 1 models.

 

What we're asking is why Fujifilm doesn't offer CC in it's older models. It could be technical, economics or just plain marketing strategy.

 

We have to remember that until the X-Pro2 comes along, the X-Pro1 is still the flagship model. So, it definitely doesn't jive that the flagship doesn't enjoy a CC update. Fujifilm promised their cleints that they will listen and try their best to continue to further improve their line up as long as they have our support. So, here we are, proud supporters and we're telling them that CC in older models would be nice. It's not a demand, it's a feedback. What we are not doing is sulking over the diminishing "freebies" as you have implied.

 

If you asked me, I think Fujifilm just doesn't have the manpower or resource to cover the demands from owners of older models. They are a very small outfit compared to the big boys. We're supporting them while they grow with the hope that they continue to support our gears, for as long as possible.

 

A halt in Firmware update is usually a precursor to end of life support for a product.

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At some stage, whether for technical or strategical reasons, support will slow down and then die. It’s the second law of thermodynamics applied to the marketing of cameras and it is unavoidable and irreversible.

 

Silkypix pro  ( raw converted given for free by Fuji) provided classic chrome also to X-Pro 1 users! Happy? :)

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Fuji have indicated that they have discontinued Kaizen updates for discontinued models so no chance of any update for the XE-1. While theoretically the X-Pro 1 is still a current body I'd question whether any were still being produced. I think Fuji planned to have the 2 out by now, and so are in a holding pattern until it hits. I don't expect anymore updates.

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