Clicky

Jump to content


Photo

X-E3 Concept

x-e2 x-e2s x-e3 concept

  • Please log in to reply
65 replies to this topic

#21 ahfairley

ahfairley

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted 09 March 2016 - 05:26 PM

Advertisement (Gone after free registration)
Removing focus point selection via the 4-way controller likely would be a deal killer for me

#22 MikeDawson

MikeDawson

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted 09 March 2016 - 05:37 PM

Agree with some other posters here.  Removal of the 4-way controller for AF point selection is a deal killer.  Would never buy a camera that requires me to select a focus point using the rear LCD.  Not sure what OP was thinking on this feature.



#23 Jano

Jano

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 38 posts

Posted 09 March 2016 - 06:22 PM

Agree with some other posters here.  Removal of the 4-way controller for AF point selection is a deal killer.  Would never buy a camera that requires me to select a focus point using the rear LCD.  Not sure what OP was thinking on this feature.

 

Did you read my post? I suggested a different (very fast and intuitive) technique for focus point selection. Selection via touch screen would only be needed when working on a tripod and most people tend to use the LCD in that scenario anyway.

 

After the comments from cug I would actually change my concept and would probably go for a smaller LCD instead of moving the LCD to the right. That would leave room for a 4-way controller or joystick.



#24 Jano

Jano

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 38 posts

Posted 09 March 2016 - 06:26 PM

Please feel free to also comment on those ideas you like since that might give Fuji an idea what the X-E3 SHOULD be, not just what it shouldn't be. Some have already agreed that the larger EVF would be great.

 

I would be happy to get some feedback to my suggestion for the combined SS / ISO dial! Do you agree that this would be more practical than the X-Pro2 dial?



#25 drushka

drushka

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts

Posted 09 March 2016 - 07:33 PM

- Using the focus assist light to trigger flashes is a great idea, I'm sure you can "flash" the LED sufficiently shortly to make flashes trigger.

- I would keep the buttonts on the thumb, and probably go with a X-Pro2 layout.

- To accommodate the X-T1 viewfinders, I'd be ok with a hump on the upper left.



#26 cug

cug

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 224 posts

Posted 09 March 2016 - 08:52 PM

WR will result in the terribly recessed buttons and dials found on other weather sealed Fuji cameras, so please NO! 

 

What makes you think that? One has absolutely NOTHING to do with the other.


  • Jano likes this

#27 Fuji.Joe

Fuji.Joe

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts

Posted 09 March 2016 - 10:59 PM

Nice concept, but not really realistic. I like the idea to omit the 4-way controller and using the touch screen - quite radical and unlikely that it happens. I try it with a bit more realism:

 

24 MP -> must

WR -> not really necessary

touch screen vs. joystick -> both isn't necessary and if I have to choose I would take the joystick

bigger evf -> nice, but unrealistic and I prefer a more compact body

combined SS/ISO dial -> would be really nice

front and rear dial -> must, but make it stiffer and customizable

no integrated flash -> only, when the place is reasonable used and you get an external flash like the one of the X-T1

a bit bigger grip -> must

centered tripod mount - must

newest x pro2 software - must



#28 MikeDawson

MikeDawson

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted 09 March 2016 - 11:06 PM

Did you read my post? I suggested a different (very fast and intuitive) technique for focus point selection. Selection via touch screen would only be needed when working on a tripod and most people tend to use the LCD in that scenario anyway.

 

After the comments from cug I would actually change my concept and would probably go for a smaller LCD instead of moving the LCD to the right. That would leave room for a 4-way controller or joystick.

 

Yes, I did read your post.  If you're talking about using focus and recompose as the other way to AF...  No.  Not going to do that either.  Keep the AF point selection buttons on the back of the camera.



#29 Jano

Jano

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 38 posts

Posted 09 March 2016 - 11:08 PM

Some more comments: 

  • The magnification of the A6300 EVF is closer to the X-T1 than to the X-E2. You'd get a near 20% increase from X-E2, from A6300 to X-T1 is only a 10% increase.
  • The screen is 16:9, that's true, but with the additional height of the X-E2, it shouldn't be a problem to accommodate a 3:2 screen. 
  • The the buttons to the right are so that you don't have to adjust hand position between shooting and reviewing and it makes it easier to integrate a flip or even a full articulating screen (if so desired). 
  • Moving the buttons to the right consolidates layout with X-Pro2, which is great for the very few folks who have both, plus it makes the design and engineering efforts easier as you have to properly test and design only a single layout. That's a big time and money saver for probably better results.
  • There shouldn't be a need to increase body size, if something, the d-pad on the X-E2 could be a little bit smaller than on X-Pro2 and the spacing between controls could be very slightly reduced while still keeping it very usable. 
  • I still question the benefits of the tiny flash, although as long as it doesn't cause space issues I'd include it, otherwise I'd like an EF-X8 if that could get a simple tilt operation.

In my personal opinion, these cameras all need a better front grip. I understand that Fuji follows form more than function here to keep the styling classy in contrast of the modern, streamlined Sony bodies.

 

This is fine, but what they should do is build in a battery grip electronics terminal into all cameras and offer a grip with electronic connection and a more ergonomic layout like the one available for the Olympus EM-5 which moves the shutter button and front dial to a much more ergonomic position. Personally I believe that Fuji should offer this for all their cameras as all of them would benefit ergonomically. Alternatively, offer it only for the X-E/X-Pro series and make the X-T series more ergonomic (move shutter button closer to where the finger naturally rests with a larger front grip without need for an additional grip.

 

There are many more ideas I have around this, having dealt with HI/UX experience for a long time (mostly software though, but hardware was included as well), but in the end, Fuji will do what they want to do. Our input is not likely to be considered.

 

Forgot to answer before, but because this thread has found some new life I wanted to do it now.

 

  • The X-E2 supposedly has 0.62x, the A6000 0.7x and the X-T1 0.77x. That's A6000 being 13% larger than X-E2, not 20%. It basically sits pretty much in the middle between the two. But you are probably right in that an increased magnification should be possible without size increase. 
  • Well according to my measurements it surely wouldn't be possible to fit an X-T1 EVF above a 3" LCD with 3:2. So it would need new optics or a smaller LCD.
  • I never had a problem with it but now I tried it with my X-E2 and imagined what it would be like with the buttons to the right of the LCD. Feels awesome! You're right, it is much better for usability.
  • Yeah, consolidating the lineup really should be a priority because I feel Fuji hasn't been too good at that TBH.

 

I don't like big handgrips because they automatically lead to me holding more of the weight with my right hand which is not ergonomic (that's my expertise as a physiotherapist). Of course I can't definitely say that this is the case with everybody but anecdotal evidence leads me to believe that. People frequently shooting with one hand should add a larger grip and in that case I agree that it should include its own shutter release. Alternatively Fuji could offer two different versions of the handgrip that are user replaceable. Not likely going to happen though.

 

Thanks for your interesting input, I've reconsidered my concept and would now likely advocate a smaller or 16:9 screen if that is needed for the larger EVF. If the EVF can be made larger without increasing body size or decreasing LCD size that would of course be even better.


  • Curiojo and cug like this

#30 Jano

Jano

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 38 posts

Posted 09 March 2016 - 11:15 PM

Yes, I did read your post.  If you're talking about using focus and recompose as the other way to AF...  No.  Not going to do that either.  Keep the AF point selection buttons on the back of the camera.

 

No, that's not what I suggested. That technique can be useful with telephoto lenses but has its problems.

 

I suggested using focus-recompose to change the active AF point. Simply focus on for example the eye with the currently active focus point. Then recompose. The camera analyses the scene to check where in the frame the eye is now and then automatically selects the closest focus point. This would be MUCH faster with all these focus points we have now than any other technique like 4-way controller or joystick.



#31 Jano

Jano

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 38 posts

Posted 09 March 2016 - 11:18 PM

- To accommodate the X-T1 viewfinders, I'd be ok with a hump on the upper left.

 

I'm all for form follows function but that would look unbearably terrible. I'd much rather take a smaller 3:2 or same size 16:9 LCD.



#32 fooltech

fooltech

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts

Posted 10 March 2016 - 06:11 AM

What makes you think that? One has absolutely NOTHING to do with the other.

I based this opinion on the sense I got when using the XT-1 and the new X-Pro2, which have significantly recessed dials and buttons compared to models that don't have weather sealing. I don't care about shooting in the rain, I care about being able to find the button or dial without fumbling around, which i'm finding is the case with the new X-Pro2. Have you tried the new AF-L button on the X-Pro2? What other reason, apart from weather sealing, would they make a rear command dial so recessed, that you have to vigorously mash your finger into it to activate it?


  • Curiojo likes this

#33 MikeDawson

MikeDawson

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted 10 March 2016 - 07:41 AM

No, that's not what I suggested. That technique can be useful with telephoto lenses but has its problems.

 

I suggested using focus-recompose to change the active AF point. Simply focus on for example the eye with the currently active focus point. Then recompose. The camera analyses the scene to check where in the frame the eye is now and then automatically selects the closest focus point. This would be MUCH faster with all these focus points we have now than any other technique like 4-way controller or joystick.

So I say "focus and recompose" and you say "no that's not what I suggested" and then go on to say "focus-recompose".  Look, I understood completely what you meant the first time around.  And No, my answer is the same.  Remove the AF point controller from the back of the camera and I WILL NOT buy it.



#34 bhu

bhu

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 72 posts

Posted 10 March 2016 - 02:58 PM

Replace flash with small OLED display facing upward for head-down viewing instead of consuming more mass and volume on a tilt screen. Add a sensor above the rangefinder to toggle the OLED on as long as a finger is .

 

Focus point selection on the rear touch screen display shows focus points on both the EVF and upward-facing OLED when they are active.

 

Enlarge the EVF exit pupil, if possible while keeping costs reasonable. Keep the optical (focus) correction dial and the eye sensor.

 

No preference on WR


  • Curiojo likes this

#35 cug

cug

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 224 posts

Posted 10 March 2016 - 04:45 PM

Have you tried the new AF-L button on the X-Pro2? What other reason, apart from weather sealing, would they make a rear command dial so recessed, that you have to vigorously mash your finger into it to activate it?

 

So that you can distinguish it by feel from the Q button? It's just a non-optimal design choice for you, but has absolutely nothing to do with weather sealing. 



#36 Jano

Jano

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 38 posts

Posted 10 March 2016 - 10:59 PM

So I say "focus and recompose" and you say "no that's not what I suggested" and then go on to say "focus-recompose".  Look, I understood completely what you meant the first time around.  And No, my answer is the same.  Remove the AF point controller from the back of the camera and I WILL NOT buy it.

 

You wrote "using focus and recompose as the other way to AF", I said "no, focus-recompose to CHANGE the active AF point". Maybe you understood it correctly but that doesn't come across in your answer. Chill, let's just have a friendly discussion about stuff.

I got that you (and some others) definitely want a 4-way-controller or joystick because you prefer slower ways to do things ;-)

 

 

Replace flash with small OLED display facing upward for head-down viewing instead of consuming more mass and volume on a tilt screen. Add a sensor above the rangefinder to toggle the OLED on as long as a finger is .

 

Taking out the flash capacitor should take care of the (little) added mass and a well built tilt screen really only adds negligible thickness. An additional OLED display would add more cost and would hardly do you any good in terms of framing. You won‘t even be able to see whether the AF hit the right target. And you could only use it for low shots, not high shots. A tilt screen does both and I really want that.



#37 MikeDawson

MikeDawson

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted 11 March 2016 - 09:20 AM

You wrote "using focus and recompose as the other way to AF", I said "no, focus-recompose to CHANGE the active AF point". Maybe you understood it correctly but that doesn't come across in your answer. Chill, let's just have a friendly discussion about stuff.

I got that you (and some others) definitely want a 4-way-controller or joystick because you prefer slower ways to do things ;-)

 

 

 

Taking out the flash capacitor should take care of the (little) added mass and a well built tilt screen really only adds negligible thickness. An additional OLED display would add more cost and would hardly do you any good in terms of framing. You won‘t even be able to see whether the AF hit the right target. And you could only use it for low shots, not high shots. A tilt screen does both and I really want that.

Hey Jano, I'm all for having a friendly discussion.  But my observation is that you don't particularly like any dissent to your opinions of what should be in the next model camera.

 

Here's my take on your idea of "focus-recompose"...  It's not a bad idea. It's a pretty good idea.  IF, and I say, IF it would work reliably.  But it won't.  I mainly work with Nikon FX gear, but I dearly love my X-E2 for casual shooting.  Nikon already has 3D tracking.  It basically does what you are talking about.  You put the AF point on a subject and then you can recompose and the AF point stays on the original target.  But it doesn't always work.  So my point is... great feature to add to a camera.  But it can't be done to the exclusion of another means of choosing the AF point.  When it comes down to situations where I need high reliability I am not going to choose your proposed way of choosing AF point.  I want it under my control.

 

I hope you can see the point I am making.


  • Curiojo likes this

#38 mdm

mdm

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 389 posts

Posted 11 March 2016 - 05:19 PM

I think that X-E3 as well as X-T20 have already been designed.



#39 lleo

lleo

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 111 posts

Posted 11 March 2016 - 10:40 PM

The only thing I don't like about the X-E2 is the buttons AF-L and AE-L just below the EV selector. They're located really bad since when holding the camera I usually put my thumb over it. There shouldn't be anything in that place on any camera.



#40 Curiojo

Curiojo

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts
  • LocationCaracas

Posted 29 March 2016 - 08:31 PM

I've already made this commentary in other topics in this forum: Please make the second dial on top (currently EC) a programmable one, thus it can be selected to function as EC or ISO or bracketing, as desired by the user. Worth to note that this type of dial would allow to set via software +5 steps for EC or bracketing.

 

The 'retro' idea implemented on X-Pro2 of a joint SS-ISO dial is a misinterpretation of what this kind of solution means in the 35mm film shooting times, where once you put the roll, you set the dial to the correspondent ISO and don't move it again until you change the roll (if it has a different ISO/ASA value).

 

In the film times, ISO dial was used to get on the metering interface (neddle, led lights) a correct reading -via the built-in light meter- while you're moving the other respective elements of the 'exposure triangle'  i.e. shutter speed and aperture. Perhaps there would be other uses to that dial in film cameras but in my old mechanic cameras has only that one. Any change on exposure has to be made by me through shutter speed or aperture.

 

I've read from some web-reviewers that the X-Pro2 SS-ISO dial is appealing but not the best way to handle the ISO setting.

 

On my X-E2 the auto-ISO function works well enough most of time but when I'm in tricky light -especially indoors- a bit of control is needed to get the desired exposure regarding to ISO value. It means that I have to shift from auto-ISO and set it manually.

 

I didn't consider myself as a purist and I really like the automation on photography but it doesn't means to forget the basic concepts and let the camera takes all the decisions. That's why I think that a camera has to offer, first, direct access to the shutter speed, aperture and ISO setting, secondly the AF help and functions and after, the access to EC, bracketing and any other feature customizable by the user.

 

On a X-E3 I'd like to see:

 

  1. Addition of a front dial, as the X-T models and X-Pro2
  2. Elimination of the built in flash (only if it contributes to get a big EVF as the XT-1, at least)
  3. A customizable dial (for EC or ISO)
  4. SD card compartment on the side of the camera (different from battery)
  5. Dual SD card (or at least, support for UHS II)
  6. Back layout as implemented on X-Pro2 (screen goes to the left and all buttons goes to right and above the screen and the AF joystick is a must)
  7. Tripod mount aligned -centered- with lens.

Finally, I'm a user of a thumb rest which had given a great improvement to the camera gripping and IMHO it compensates the lack of a more pronounced front grip. I think, if this kind of thumb support is integrated to the top plate it would be a really nice addition in regards of the ergonomics of the camera, additionally the hot shoe would be free.    


Edited by Curiojo, 29 March 2016 - 08:50 PM.




Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: x-e2, x-e2s, x-e3, concept

 
x

Registration is free

Not registered? Really?

Discover the full potential of the Fuji X Forum... register now!
Registration is free and done in a few minutes!

As registered member you can discuss, post your questions and present your images.
And get in contact with Fuji X photographers worldwide!

We are looking forward to you!

The Fuji X Forum Team

Register Close