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X100T VIEW MODE PROBLEM


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After 9 months and 23,900 shutter operations, my X100s died.... the lens fell off - but 9 months for a camera is normal for me ;)  It was my second X100s, and I originally had an X100.

 

My replacement arrived today, an X100T.  It has a firmware design fault.

 

On the X100 and X100s you could use viewfinder only for taking the photos, and LCD for viewing the photos and the menu.  This was done with a single setting.  It's logical, as the main menu is a lot easier to view on the LCD than in the viewfinder, and photos are much easier to view on the LCD.  Nobody looks at their photos or main menu in the viewfinder.

 

On the X100T you can either view menus and framing in the viewfinder, or you can view menus and framing on the LCD.  There is no combination as exists in the X100s.  You can also have everything on the LCD with the eye sensor, so that everything is viewable only on the LCD or only on the viewfinder if you are looking into it, but I really don't like that option, and don't want to use it.

 

If I have the viewfinder set up to frame subjects, and I want to navigate the menu on the LCD, I have to press the view mode button to be able to do that, and then, when I am finished with the LCD, I have to then press the button 3 times again or the viewfinder won't work.

 

This is not good.

 

I have trawled the Internet for a work-around, but nobody has found any way of fixing this problem.... and given the thousands of people in various forums who are complaining, it is a problem.

 

Fuji San, if you do, by some chance, read this post.... PLEASE can you fix this issue and let us have the excellent system that worked so well on the X100 and the X100s? 

 

Thank you :)

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Wait, what ?

 

On my X100:

With eye sensor DISABLED, when i press Menu in EVF mode it shows up in the EVF, and when i'm in OVF mode it shows up on the back-LCD only.

With eye sensor ENABLED, when i press Menu it shows up in the VF with both modes, and switches automatically to the back-LCD using the eye sensor.

 

No matter the eye sensor setting, when i press Playback it always shows up, in whatever mode, finder or display.

I have disabled image review so after i take a picture it does nothing either way unless i press the Playback button.

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Hi Maurice, I don't understand your reply.

 

I know what happens on the X100 and on the X100S, but as I pointed out the X100T is completely different to the older versions.

 

I would like to know if Fuji are planning on fixing the issue, or if somebody here has found a hidden menu item that would bring the T in line with the older 100 models, and indeed with all other Fuji cameras with viewfinders.

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So you're saying this happens in OVF mode as well as EVF mode, and you cannot get it to show on the back-LCD unless you chance the view mode manually?

 

It seems that would indeed make it different.

 

I guess they wanted more consistency as it's actually a little odd that it would switch to the rear LCD in OVF mode, but not in EVF mode. I can also understand that they fix inconsistencies like this, and then not add yet another menu option option to customize every little change they make. I'm sure there are more we didn't notice. But then i can also understand that it might be frustrating when it's not what you want and can't do anything about it. :(

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It's a big change, Maurice, and very strange.  Nobody ever navigates the full menu in the viewfinder. 

 

All viewfinder cameras, including Canon, Nikon, Leica, Sony, Minolta and Fuji (until now) show the menu by default on the LCD.  Most give the option to view in the viewfinder, if you want to, but by default the menu is shown on the LCD.

 

With the X100T in viewfinder mode, the main menu defaults to the viewfinder. 

 

If you want to see the menu on the LCD you have to press the view mode button once.  However, if you then put the camera back to your eye to take another shot, the viewfinder no longer works.  You then have to press the view mode button another 3 times to bring the viewfinder back to life and switch off the LCD.

 

It's not an ideal situation.  Why have Fuji bucked convention (including their own convention) and introduced a serious flaw?

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They always seem to give cameras out to Fuji X shooters before release. It's strange that this hasn't come up. Same with a bunch of other quirks.

 

They seems to listen to feedback, but it can take ages to be fixed, and something like this that's hard to explain in one sentence is difficult to get through.

 

Especially since you don't know where and how they get their information.

Wish there was some kind of system to report things like this publicly and vote on them or something.

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I have abandoned the X100T for the serious fault mentioned above.  I have ordered another X100S.

For me, the problem of the main menu appearing by default in the viewfinder instead of on the LCD makes the X100T unusable in situations where speed is critical.

 

Anybody for whom normal camera menu convention, or speed of operation is critical should seriously consider the X100S instead of the X100T. 

 

Until the problem is addressed the camera remains problematic, not just for me, but for many thousands who are complaining of this issue in various forums and discussion boards in the Internet.

 

I have been using Fuji almost exclusively now for 5 years, and this is the first time I have been seriously disappointed with an X series camera.  If this change of convention continues I will reconsider my brand loyalty.

 

This problem may be insignificant for many here, but in other forums it is regarded as extremly frustrating by a huge number of users, and it is certainly a problem for photographers who work in demanding and challenging conditions.

 

I am sorry I wasted my money on the X100T.  In the demanding conditions in which I work the X100T, for me, is not fit for purpose :(

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... You can also have everything on the LCD with the eye sensor, so that everything is viewable only on the LCD or only on the viewfinder if you are looking into it, but I really don't like that option, and don't want to use it.

 

 

In eye sensor mode everything works like you want.

So, what's your problem with this?

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Not in "eye sensor" mode. There is basically a mode for every combo possible. In Eye Sensor mode, when your eye is at the viewfinder, everything shows there (eve, menu, etc). When your eye is NOT at the viewfinder, everything shows on the LCD display. If yours works some other way, then something must be wrong? It doesn't require pushing of buttons to change where things display, just removing the camera from your face.

 

In Viewfinder Only mode, then yes, what you describe is correct. I get your point and I agree that it should be considered a bug or lost feature from the S, but I personally wouldn't consider it significant enough to downgrade. Just me though.

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owncavestudios, I only ever use viewfinder only mode.  I am not interested in any of the others.  Viewfinder is for taking photos, LCD is for viewing the menu.

I have to move very fast to get the photos I manage to capture, and this "bug" is sufficient to prevent me from doing my work effectively.

 

Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Leica, Olympus and all Fuji cameras with viewfinders until the X100S show menu on the LCD when in viewfinder only mode.

 

The X100T has broken not just Fuji convention, but also the convention adopted by all camera makers in this respect.

 

The X100S is wonderful, but the T, for me, was a waste of money, but will be consigned to my camera museum where all my obsolte cameras go ;)

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Suppose he wants to black out the display to save power without turning off the camera.

 

Is there a way to turn off the display in eye sensor mode ?

I can switch to the info display rather than live view (already saving lots of power), but i don't think you can turn it off completely in eye sensor mode.

Normally you'd use viewfinder-only mode for that, but of course that turns off the eye-sensor ..

 

Fuji quirks, huh.

 

I understand the frustration, but in any case if that's the problem i'd buy another battery rather than a full camera downgrade. :blink:

(and attempt to make Fuji aware of the problem)

 

Maybe you're not aware or forgot about the Info Display mode? That way it won't ever show the feared Live View on the back-LCD. B)

Amazingly i can't find any picture of it anywhere, but this is what it looks like on the original X100:

 

pic_24.jpg

 

ps.

This raises another problem though, the VF not turning off automatically in viewfinder-only mode when you're not using it.

Other brands already do this. The eye-sensor is there, why not use it ..

(unless this changed in the X100S/T, or maybe i missed a setting?)

 

edit.

Apparently it looks like this on the T, i like it. :)

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

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[...] I want to use the viewfinder as a viewfinder, and see the menu on the LCD, as happens with [...] the XT1 [...]

I don't have a X100/s/t, so I cannot contribute very much, but about the XT1:

 

When used in 'EVF only + Eye Sensor' mode to show the live-view only in the EVF and only when the camera is up to the eye, the menu will also show in the EVF only (and only when the camera is up to the eye).

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Begi Nabara, I guess English is not your native language... but please read all the posts above carefully, it's all very clear :-)
 

With the X100S I don't need to use eye sensor to get the menu on the LCD.  The viewfinder only option works fine, and causes the menu to appear on the LCD.  Canon, Nikon, Leica, Olympus, Pentax etc., all do the same.

 

Fuji have changed something that had worked fine for 5 years on the X100 and X100S, and now it no longer works.

 

Please read all the comments above.  It seems from many replies here that people are commenting without reading everything that has already been written, and their comments are either irrelevant, or just repeating other comments others have already made. 

 

Maybe your native language is not English, and maybe you have problems understanding, but it is all set out very clearly, and if you don't understand, just ask :)

 

Fuji have changed something that worked fine, that complied with accepted convention across all makes of cameras, and they have changed it to something that no longer complies with accepted convention.

 

It worked well.... now it doesn't :( 

 

My replacement X100S just arrived from Amazon, and I'm happy again.  The T has been retired.  It may be ok for the average photographer, but it doesn't work well for those who need to work fast and under pressure, but the S is super.

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Have you read and understood MY last post ?

 

It works how you want it to in eye sensor mode with display mode on Info Display rather than Live View,

the only difference then is that it shows some useful info on the display when you're not using the VF.

 

It's essentially VF-only, and the menu shows up on the back-LCD, exactly how you want it.

(much like a DSLR works or used to work before they had live-view capability.)

*Unless you press the menu button with your eye still in the VF, then for a millisecond you will see it in the VF. (the horror)

 

As i said if it's the battery you're worried about i would rather get an extra one than downgrade, that just seems rather excessive.

Makes me wonder what you're doing in the menu all day, i rarely even take a peek.

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Maurice, I have read it, thank you for the suggestion.... but I don't want to use eye sensor mode.  It takes too long to wake up - up to 2 seconds.... I don't have two seconds to waste when I'm out looking for photos, and it also causes a massive drain on the battery.

 

I just want the X100T to work the same as my X100S, my X100, my X-Pro1, my Canon EOS cameras, my Nikon cameras, and all my other cameras.  Fuji have changed the T and it no longer does what all other cameras do.

 

Strangely enough, this issue is being taken very seriously by other Fuji forums, but nobody seems to understand it here.

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Again, It's understood, thing is there are workarounds that do alright.

I understand it's not ideal and should be addressed, or even label it a bug, and being annoying.

Just the downgrading seems rather excessive.

Since it's just a menu, and just one among many Fuji quirks.

 

The switching shouldn't take that long, it takes under a second on my X100 for the VF to activate.

Only when the camera is not used for a set amount of time it powers off and needs to start up again, but that happens either way.

 

There is a quick start mode in the menu, but that doesn't seem to make a difference for anything that i can tell, mileage may vary.

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Hi Maurice, thanks for your suggestions, but I need tools that do the job, and I cannot afford the luxury of work-arounds.  I need total efficiency, and the T simply doesn't do it.

 

I am now back on the S, a new one to replace the one that broke a week ago, and happy.  The T is consigned to the obsolete bin, and I am a happy Fuji user again... but the T was an unpleasant experience, not just for me, but for many thousands of others in the Internet who are complaining about the same issue. 

 

Workarounds are ok when a manufacturer is pioneering new fields and still in the learning phase.  In this case, Fuji took away something that worked very well in the X-Pro1, the X100 and the X100S and they replaced it with something that didn't work.  That's not nice.  All the improvements they made were completely ruined by one inexplicable decision to break something that worked great for five years.

 

The X100S is wonderful, and I'm producing photos again :)

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  • 1 month later...

Fuji Italy have just sent me the following text in an email:

 

"The X-Pro2 also has the new modality, as will all future cameras with the hybrid viewfinder.

We have made the change following numerous requests.

Substantially, whoever uses mostly the viewfinder wants to avoid light pollution, to stay invisible or not cause a disturbance (e.g. theatre).

The eye sensor, on the other hand, allows you to also see the menu on the LCD."

 

None of that makes any sense at all.  On the X-Pro1, X100 and X100S, for those not wishing to cause light pollution had the CHOICE of seeing the menu on the LCD or in the viewfinder.  Fuji's reasoning above is groundless, because the option already existed.  Instead, they have taken away one of the options.

 

They now say they have done the same for the X-Pro2.  An excellent reason for not buying it.

 

Eye sensor is great for those who want to use it.  For those who don't, everything worked tickety-boo up until the X100S, then Fuji decided to take away an option, using unbelievable reasons.

 

I think they simply screwed-up... got it wrong... hopefully they will fix it soon, because it is a big problem.

 

It's quite amazing that all the professional reviewers never even noticed such a big and important change :(

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I just tried this on my X100 and X100T and they do indeed function as Paul describes. I think the reason I never noticed this before is that once I set my camera up the way I want it, I tend to shoot it very much like a film camera and the only things I ever change are shutter speed and aperture. So now I'm curious as to what changes you need to make when shooting that require the use of the menus. Offhand the only time I can think of when I use the menus, other than the initial setup, is when formatting a card. Am I missing something here? What kinds of changes are you making that require the menus? Could I get more/better use out of my camera by diving into the menus more often? 

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fordfanjpn,

 

I have to use the keypad lock permanently, as my camera is permanently in my hand and switched on.... fingers touch buttons, and when you suddenly bring the camera to your eye you find it doesn't work, because you pressed a button and something changed... so I block the keypad. 

 

Blocked keypad means that nearly all changes have to be done in the main menu or the Q menu.

 

However, that's not really the point..... the point is that until 2 cameras ago, Fuji adhered to universal convention on menus appearing on the LCD, a convention adopted by all camera users.  Fuji have just broken with convention, and it's not good.

 

Before, the user could see the menu or Q menu on the LCD, as with all cameras, but the user HAD A CHOICE to view the menus in the viewfinder if he or she wanted.

 

Now, Fuji have taken away the choice.  Now Fuji say their cameras will be different to all other cameras, whether we like it or not.

 

It worked, the user had the option to change.  Now it doesn't work, and the user doesn't have any option, except for eye sensor mode, which is total crap.

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Fuji Italy have just sent me the following text in an email:

 

"The X-Pro2 also has the new modality, as will all future cameras with the hybrid viewfinder.

We have made the change following numerous requests.

Substantially, whoever uses mostly the viewfinder wants to avoid light pollution, to stay invisible or not cause a disturbance (e.g. theatre).

The eye sensor, on the other hand, allows you to also see the menu on the LCD."

 

None of that makes any sense at all.  On the X-Pro1, X100 and X100S, for those not wishing to cause light pollution had the CHOICE of seeing the menu on the LCD or in the viewfinder.  Fuji's reasoning above is groundless, because the option already existed.  Instead, they have taken away one of the options.

 

I think I see the reason for the change, if I can explain it. I shoot a lot in dark night clubs so I use VF only mode so the LCD is not distracting to other people in the club. With the X100 if I'm in VF only mode and using the OVF, if I press the menu button, the LCD lights up and becomes a distraction. The only way I can avoid that is to switch to EVF mode before pressing the menu button, in which case the menu pops up in the VF instead of on the LCD. No distractions. With the X100T I can be in VF only mode and using the OVF and if I press the menu button, the menus pop up in the VF, where I want them because I don't want the LCD lighting up. So in my case, I don't want the LCD lighting up when I press the menu button, so for me, the X100T is an improvement. Does that make sense? FWIW, I never use the menus when I'm shooting, so it's kind of a moot point for me. 

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